The 9mm Automatic: A better 9mm cartridge

[usagi]

so he wants unreliable feeding and extraction? because that's what a straight wall will get you in semiautos.

there is a reason every non rimmed semiauto pistol cartridge has a taper.

 

[gaijinsamurai]

? Ive never had any of the issues he's mentioned with the 9mm problems.

I think its a lot of fuss over very little.

x2. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Very good read.


Could this be different bullets used in the manufacture of the 9mm Luger and the 9mm Automatic (parabellum, et al).

I recently picked up a 9mm Luger. I was talking with someone about it and was told to make sure that I use 9mm Luger ammo and not the “standard or normal” 9mm parabellum.

Honestly not knowing what the difference was, other than the “name” or labeling, I was told that the 9mm Luger is a 9x18 and the parabellum was a 9x19.

I mentioned that I always just bought 9mm and didn’t pay too much attention. I mentioned the my 9mm's seemed to shoot anything I put into them.

I was asked "are they stamped Luger or Parabellum". "I don't know. I assume Parabellum as the are not marked "Luger"."

I was told that a non-Luger 9mm (a 9x19) will shoot 9x19 and 9x18 without any problems. The problems arise when trying to put a 9x19 into a Luger which is designed for the 9x18. The guy told me that some Lugers are OK with either and some are not.

What say the 9mm folks?

Whoever told you that doesn't know very much about the subject. 9 mm Luger and Parabellum are the same thing.

 

[Bam]

You got to be pretty full of yourself to say a round used by millions of people through millions of firearms over 100 years is flawed.

I will gladly stick with the flawed 9 over this guy's un proven bull.

 

[strick]

I think the guy is full of himself. One he was using a diamondback db9. Those have horrible issues with them.

 

[JustShoot]

so he wants unreliable feeding and extraction? because that's what a straight wall will get you in semiautos.

there is a reason every non rimmed semiauto pistol cartridge has a taper.

-
( the magical deadly) .45 acp is about as strait-wall as you get and it is 'reliable' . after seating bullet it is only at most a few thousandths smaller at the mouth than the breech end . But it can get pretty close to strait-walled case when you end-up using thicker-walled Brass . The most simple thing is to just cut strait-wall on the Chamber ream to accept the loaded strait-walled pistol Round that is just getting shoved in it . Even using Aluminum and Steel .45acp loaded Case extract fine from the .45 acp when fired .

When you full-size a strait-wall pistol brass it visually has tapered . BUT that is the universal adopted most simple efficient way to Full-Size a strait-wall pistol cartridge like .45acp and others . Is to just tapper the full length of a short pistol case , Then bell the mouth and seat the bullet down the Tapper .
Also . All different brass case manufactured ( pistol or rifle ) is slightly different in it's brass wall thickness and it can also vary in thickness from run to run also with retooling .
BUT seating the bullet into the Tapered Case . It expands out to almost the same Diam. as the widest Diam. of the Brass .

So Seating a bullet of known Diam. into a Brass Pistol Case that has wall-Thickness variance of plus-minus a few thousands . Guess what ? . There is No Such Thing as a true strait-wall Pistol Cartridge .
And that is the Pipe Dream of the author of this article . It's Scholarly Intellectual Horse Flop . plus No Such thing as a ' Perfect Strait Wall ' case in a world of factory mass produced pistol ammo by the millions every year, it aint going to happen .
Plus you will never replace the 9mm as it is the most widely produced Military adopted pistol ammo in the world . The Author of this article ( phd. Dr. Bla Bla who givesabubblegum ) is smoking Crack .
.

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's a .38 Super website and the dood's e-mail address is 38superdood or somesuch for heavens sake.
Why not just use a .38 super? Perhaps to make major but plenty of guys just use a 9 to make major without all the masterbatory shenanegans. what a joke

 

[JustShoot]

It's a .38 Super website and the dood's e-mail address is 38superdood or somesuch for heavens sake.
Why not just use a .38 super? Perhaps to make major but plenty of guys just use a 9 to make major without all the masterbatory shenanegans. what a joke

-
Good one . didn't think about that cartridge and it is Really is (close as possible) to a true strait-wall as your going to get fired out a Semi-auto Pistol . It's solid Reliable feed/extract also . Plus can squeeze a little more Vel. than a 9mm .
.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Remember the 9mm Winchester magnum? Why did they bother with that? 115gr/535fpe.
9mm +P+ 115's go 500fpe.. I don't know if that makes major or not but guys commonly load them to be.

 

[BAMCIS]

The stuff I buy and reload works just fine for me. So why change now?

IMO this is another solution in search of a problem.

 

[BillM]

The old 38 ACP and it's same size hot loaded cousin the 38 super are straight, but have a
slight rim (same with 32 ACP).

38 TJ and 38 supercomp are 38 super without the semi-rim. Never heard of them? Both
were developed for USPSA open division guns. TJ never really took off, but I do know a
few people running supercomp guns. The hot caliber for race guns? 9x19, loaded to
major. That's 1,435 fps+ for a 115 gr, 1,330+ for a 124. I think the old 9mm will keep
chuggin' along for a few more years.

 

[orygun]

Very good read.

Can you fine folks help out?

In the picts from Figure 1 on..... The bullet themselves look differently shaped too. If you look at the bullt near the brass it looks like the 9mm Luger looks like they have a fatness to them, with the 9mm Automatic appear to be thinner.

Could this be different bullets used in the manufacture of the 9mm Luger and the 9mm Automatic (parabellum, et al).

I recently picked up a 9mm Luger. I was talking with someone about it and was told to make sure that I use 9mm Luger ammo and not the "standard or normal" 9mm parabellum.

Honestly not knowing what the difference was, other than the "name" or labeling, I was told that the 9mm Luger is a 9x18 and the parabellum was a 9x19.

I mentioned that I always just bought 9mm and didn't pay too much attention. I mentioned the my 9mm's seemed to shoot anything I put into them.

I was asked "are they stamped Luger or Parabellum". "I don't know. I assume Parabellum as the are not marked "Luger"."

I was told that a non-Luger 9mm (a 9x19) will shoot 9x19 and 9x18 without any problems. The problems arise when trying to put a 9x19 into a Luger which is designed for the 9x18. The guy told me that some Lugers are OK with either and some are not.

What say the 9mm folks?

WTF? Both to this post and the OP...

9x18 is a Makarov. 9mm Para, 9mm Luger and 9x19 are all the the same, but not the same as 9x18 (Mak) or 9x17 (380, 9mm kurtz, 9mm kurz)
Trying to tell the world that you have a "better idea" when it comes to a 9x19 (whatever you want to call it) is just BS. Well, it's not BS if it's your idea and you hope to make money with it.
There are several reasons a little case taper is a good idea, but I'll not waste the space to delve into that here. What I will say is this, the 9x19 has a phenomenal record, something like over 100 years of it, of being a reliable cartridge in autoloading pistols. Reliable means feeding, extracting and reasonably powerful.
I say to try and change it now is a waste of time, money and effort.
This is the opinion of one who isn't a 9mm fan, too.

 

[AMT]

oops.

 

[AMT]

Meant this:

I am quickly learning that what I was told was wrong. Thankfully I was picking up the gun via the FFL and not buying a gun from them being fed wrong info.

Whoever told you that doesn't know very much about the subject. 9 mm Luger and Parabellum are the same thing.

WTF? Both to this post and the OP...

9x18 is a Makarov. 9mm Para, 9mm Luger and 9x19 are all the the same, but not the same as 9x18 (Mak) or 9x17 (380, 9mm kurtz, 9mm kurz)
Trying to tell the world that you have a "better idea" when it comes to a 9x19 (whatever you want to call it) is just BS. Well, it's not BS if it's your idea and you hope to make money with it.
There are several reasons a little case taper is a good idea, but I'll not waste the space to delve into that here. What I will say is this, the 9x19 has a phenomenal record, something like over 100 years of it, of being a reliable cartridge in autoloading pistols. Reliable means feeding, extracting and reasonably powerful.
I say to try and change it now is a waste of time, money and effort.
This is the opinion of one who isn't a 9mm fan, too.

 

[Member 34319]

The guy who developed this cartridge had way too much time on his hands. Seriously a waste of time. If 9mm is flawed then I'm the tooth fairy.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Eh!!!