National Texas shooting self defense? murder? warning graphic

[Alexx1401]

I agree anyone could have walked away but if your life has been threatened multiple times walking away does not end your troubles.

Yep I would suspect this was not the first time these neighbors had, had some kind of friction with each other. Just watched Dana on NRA TV and she did a bit on this with a small part of the video. Don't know if she got it right but she said the Wife of the dead guy gave this tape to the press after the shooters were freed on bail and that they were promptly arrested again. She had a lawyer on with it talking about it who of course was shaking his head that it went this bad over a mattress in a dumpster. One thing the Lawyer mentioned was TX law says you can not use deadly force over a verbal threat. He mentions also of course the video does not show what the dead idiot did just before being shot. In any case it was such a waste. Go back to your home, wait for the Cops to get there. As years go by I am sure the father and Son are going to wish they had done just that. So much stupidity on display.

 

[Alexx1401]

Some of you did not watch the video, others did so w/o the volume.

1) Dead guy threatened to kill a mailman for walking between his cars and his window when the mailman was trying to deliver the mail.
2) He's got a rap sheet longer than my arm.
3) He threatened to kill both of the Miller's multiple time.
4) He came after John Miller with a baseball bat.
5) He threw the bat at John Miller after John shot him twice.

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AHHHHH, I could not see that when I watched it. I did see the older guy act like he was avoiding something. That shot right there may well keep the father and Son out of prison.

 

[Certaindeaf]

This is why Oscar spent all his time teaching kids to sleep in garbage cans on Sesame Street.

 

[justcuz]

Alas, reading all the thread's commentaries from members is quite illuminating to say the least. The thread's posts are a great example of the experiment where a group of adults or children are in a circle the host whispers some innocuous phrase 'abc abc abc' in the first ear and says pass it on, then asks the last person what the was the phrase they received and told 'abc mno xhb' !

The actions speak for themself, for whatever reason the father/son premeditated their actions by taking pistols/shotgun, respectively, out with intent to have a show down at 'ye olde dipsy dumper' with the residential 'bully' who premediatedly brought a bat and his partner, apparently not to stop him but to video the confrontation.

Newspeek reports, rumors, numerous 'witnesses' & arm chair quarterbacks watch the video, all offering their unsubstatiated opinion but seem to fail to realized the decedent's...
1. community, MH & LE to name but a few, completely failed the individual - oh dear in the same fashion as all the other shootings we hear about!

2. Family, immediate caregiver and familal, failed this individual for not assuring they got treatment as a youth or assured they took their meds as prescribed, just for starters.

The assailants let testosterone rage cause their mental capacity to reason rationally, slip away from them where they premediated this showdown, gun in hand, to escalate from bravado to reality.

Bottom line,
A. two men's lives are ruined as they face enormous financial burdens, possible (probable) long incarnation, and their entire familial dynasty is shattered beyond repair.

B. decedent's life is ended, a child is fatherless, a wife lost her partner, the familial dynasty is also destroyed, and nobody will ever be mentally the same.

The community & its citizens are going to be paying both money and services long into the future, far more than what the initial & sustained MH treatment to the deceased from youth to death by olde age would have cost!

 

[RVTECH]

John Miller, 67, and Michael Miller, 37, were re-arrested on Sept. 21, and a new bond for the Millers is $250,000 each, according to the Abilene Reporter News. The new bond announcement was "to address the (Abilene Police) Department and public's concern," Police Chief Stan Standridge said.

I wonder what the 'public concern' was that needed to be addressed - considering the bond increase to $250,000 per.
Maybe more 'death threats' from family & friends of the deceased?

 

[Belial]

There is all kinds of stupidity on both sides...All I can say is wow and the outcome of this will be interesting.

 

[Alexx1401]

I wonder what the 'public concern' was that needed to be addressed - considering the bond increase to $250,000 per.
Maybe more 'death threats' from family & friends of the deceased?

On NRA TV the Dana show she had a Lawyer on who said it was due to that video. Apparently (from what he said) when LEO's got there they took statements and arrested the two. It was after they were let out on bond that the Wife then took that video to the press who ran with it. After that the father and Son were picked up again and huge bond set.
Another poster put up a frame of that video that shows the one shot threw the bat he had at the father just missing him. If anything saves these 2 from jail it may be that. If would be ironic if the woman filming it ends up being the reason they do not get jail, or get off fairly easy for something like Invol. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out when it gets to trial.

 

[titsonritz]

The actions speak for themself, for whatever reason the father/son premeditated their actions by taking pistols/shotgun, respectively, out with intent to have a show down at 'ye olde dipsy dumper' with the residential 'bully' who premediatedly brought a bat and his partner, apparently not to stop him but to video the confrontation.

Keep in mind that video begins somewhere in the middle of the events. It is my understanding John Miller had a pistol in his pocket (Anyone around here ever carry a pistol? Does that make any action after that point premeditation?) After dead guy goes off and threatens to kill Miller Sr he pulls his pistol in disagreement, Miller Jr hears the ruckus and joins his father with the Shockwave. (Anyone here not going to backup family or friends?)

ETA:
Make no mistake, I am not defending any of these dumbass rednecks with or w/o clothing, as I stated earlier, there is enough stupid here to fill the state of Texas. I will always retreat from a fight given the opportunity, but it has been my experience that is not always within my control. In this scenario, I'd have been gone or at least would have tried.

 

[soberups]

Carrying a gun in order to confront someone in an alley over a mattress in the dumpster is a job for the police, not a civilian.
The father and son were willing and active participants in a situation that they chose to escalate by bringing guns into the argument. That choice resulted in a man being shot and killed.
The dead guy also chose to escalate, so rather than murder I would say they ought to be charged with manslaughter or negligent homicide.

 

[Flymph]

What the bubblegum was that...

 

[11Charlie]

What the bubblegum was that...

A redneck hillbilly show down!

 

[JeremyK]

Play silly games, win silly prizes...

 

[titsonritz]

What the bubblegum was that...

That was the trash taking out the trash taking out the trash.

 

[Alexx1401]

Carrying a gun in order to confront someone in an alley over a mattress in the dumpster is a job for the police, not a civilian.
The father and son were willing and active participants in a situation that they chose to escalate by bringing guns into the argument. That choice resulted in a man being shot and killed.
The dead guy also chose to escalate, so rather than murder I would say they ought to be charged with manslaughter or negligent homicide.

As has been mentioned what we are being "told" was he had the gun in his pocket. I don't walk out of my house without one either. As for what lead up to this? No one knows since the video is shot by the dead guys Wife and we only see what she wanted shown. Zero doubt in my mind the father son tag team should have left since it sounds like Police had already been called. If the bozo was threatening them, then back away if needed, but away I would go.
I too can't see them getting murder out of this but could easily see some form of manslaughter. Suspect strongly that the prosecutor will offer some kind of deal before long. If the reports about the dead guy are true there is a LOT to fill the jury in on what an A$$hat he was. That will help the shooters as well as the video that Wife posted also showing her man throwing the bat at the one guy. No doubt in my mind that the father son team will have years to wish they had simply returned to their home and waited for LEO's to get there. There was an untold amount of stupid going around there is right. What's that old line about "everything is bigger in Texas?" Well the stupid here was sure jumbo size alright