Poll: Tactical reload drills - Much benefit?

[titsonritz]

Maybe ATEOTWAWKI I'll consider hanging on to them but right now, not so much, I'll be dealing with the task at hand.

 

[papersoldier]

Well, that settles it. I'm putting lanyards on all my magazines so I don't have to worry about this problem!

 

[Cerberus Group]

Well, that settles it. I'm putting lanyards on all my magazines so I don't have to worry about this problem!

There ya go...drag them behind you as you continue, then pull them in as needed.

 

[Member 34319]

So if you were in a gunfight today you would pause to deal a magazine?

Police officer in an engagement, or military personnel at war, nope. I could get more. In the police scenario, I'd imagine they become part of some evidenced doomed to never see the light of day again.

Maybe ATEOTWAWKI I'll consider hanging on to them but right now, not so much, I'll be dealing with the task at hand.

This is my point.

Most train and own for the EOTWAWKI.

All the professional training I've done is to retain magazines. One training was under the ideology that you retain them and only if absolutely needed you don't.

However...

Older men than I have prepared for the end of the world that never happened so I guess it's "to each their own" at this point.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I can't recall a civilian shooting where a magazine change was ever verified, let alone a Tac reload. In the LE world...very few mag changes, and again not one documented Tac reload...at least not that I've heard of.

The old training was the Tac reload was done when there's a "lull" in the fight. I know there's some folks on here who have been in fire fights, either military, LE, or civilian...but I can't recall there ever being a "lull" in a gunfight.

In my opinion, there is no "lull" in a gunfight. If the cavalry hasn't arrived, or the threat hasn't been verified as being stopped...its still going, and one needs to be ready for shot number next.

To simplify the brain index, and have less files for the brain to scan thru to respond to the situation at hand...a load is a load. Get the weapon topped off ASAP.

There's two ways to do a Tac reload...either fumble around with 2 magazines in your hand, but some don't have large enough hands to do so efficiently...then add the stress of the gunfight...and we can imagine the train wreck here.

OR which I despise...a load with retention. Meaning taking the magazine out and stowing it, then loading a fresh magazine. This leaves your weapon with only one round for a very long period of time. I've seen plenty of people fumble this in classes under what I would consider low stress...trying to get the partially spent magazine in a pocket or pouch...again, add the gunfight stress.

Just do a speed reload...get topped off so you can respond efficiently to the unknown threat that's still lurking NOW. THEN, if you feel you that 'lull", pick the magazine off the deck before you move out.

With a Tac reload on a AR platform, which will have the bolt forward...make sure every magazine you will carry will seat without hesitation or any slight hint of a problem with the amount of rounds you carry in it.

During my rifle classes, we go through magazines to see which will seat with ease, and which will cause problems. Even those with slight seating problems I wouldn't carry in a possible confrontation, as the increased adrenaline dump will compound that slight seating problem.

I've seen about every make of magazine come thru my classes over the many years, and have yet to see 100% of a students magazines all seat with 30 rounds...there's usually a problem child or more. Some won't seat with 28...but every magazine will seat with 25. Been loading my magazines with 25 rounds for well over 20 years now. As always, do as you see fit.

As a coincidence to this...I was loaned Clint Smith's book "Urban Rifle" awhile back, and in there he mentions about loading magazines to 25 rounds.

 

[titsonritz]

I've seen about every make of magazine come thru my classes over the many years, and have yet to see 100% of a students magazines all seat with 30 rounds...there's usually a problem child or more. Some won't seat with 28...but every magazine will seat with 25. Been loading my magazines with 25 rounds for well over 20 years now. As always, do as you see fit.

I can attest to this.

 

[slimmer13]

I wouldn't know, but I would assume under stress, mag changes revert to the worst day of training theory and funky things happen. I'd want to KISS.

 

[bgdawgrr]

I'd dump the mag, but honestly if I fired 2,3,5 shots, whatever, I don't think dumping for a backup mag would be on my mind.
If by lul, that means I was hiding undercover, I would change to a full mag, retaining my partial. If for nothing else, not giving away my position with a straight dump on the ground.

 

[EPS]

Bad guys run in packs these days .
I carry a Glock 19 X with 18 in the gun.
And a extra mag with 22 rounds.
If you look up police Shooting .
After a shooting they ask them how many shots did you fire .
Most of the time they can't tell you how many times they fired.
They say 4 times but it was actually 8 or 10

 

[Flymph]

Depends on how much time I think I have...

PS: I changed my vote because apparently this lull would allow me enough time to pocket a mag... I also shoot one handed more often than not, which I know is supposedly bad form.

 

[EPS]

I can't recall a civilian shooting where a magazine change was ever verified, let alone a Tac reload. In the LE world...very few mag changes, and again not one documented Tac reload...at least not that I've heard of.

The old training was the Tac reload was done when there's a "lull" in the fight. I know there's some folks on here who have been in fire fights, either military, LE, or civilian...but I can't recall there ever being a "lull" in a gunfight.

In my opinion, there is no "lull" in a gunfight. If the cavalry hasn't arrived, or the threat hasn't been verified as being stopped...its still going, and one needs to be ready for shot number next.

To simplify the brain index, and have less files for the brain to scan thru to respond to the situation at hand...a load is a load. Get the weapon topped off ASAP.

There's two ways to do a Tac reload...either fumble around with 2 magazines in your hand, but some don't have large enough hands to do so efficiently...then add the stress of the gunfight...and we can imagine the train wreck here.

OR which I despise...a load with retention. Meaning taking the magazine out and stowing it, then loading a fresh magazine. This leaves your weapon with only one round for a very long period of time. I've seen plenty of people fumble this in classes under what I would consider low stress...trying to get the partially spent magazine in a pocket or pouch...again, add the gunfight stress.

Just do a speed reload...get topped off so you can respond efficiently to the unknown threat that's still lurking NOW. THEN, if you feel you that 'lull", pick the magazine off the deck before you move out.

With a Tac reload on a AR platform, which will have the bolt forward...make sure every magazine you will carry will seat without hesitation or any slight hint of a problem with the amount of rounds you carry in it.

During my rifle classes, we go through magazines to see which will seat with ease, and which will cause problems. Even those with slight seating problems I wouldn't carry in a possible confrontation, as the increased adrenaline dump will compound that slight seating problem.

I've seen about every make of magazine come thru my classes over the many years, and have yet to see 100% of a students magazines all seat with 30 rounds...there's usually a problem child or more. Some won't seat with 28...but every magazine will seat with 25. Been loading my magazines with 25 rounds for well over 20 years now. As always, do as you see fit.

As a coincidence to this...I was loaned Clint Smith's book "Urban Rifle" awhile back, and in there he mentions about loading magazines to 25 rounds.

Well it might be true but there is a video of a Las Vegas police Shooting where the cop does a reload .
Lol it was alful he fumble around trying to put the mag in the gun backwards.
Accully I think he ran his gun empty .
But any way mag change practice is a must

 

[BrandonQuixote]

Gun fights start and end so quickly, the only "lull" would be when it's over, whether your alive or not. There's no reason to not practice reloads. Malfunctions are a thing. If this guy advocates never needing to reload, does he not carry a spare mag? I don't think id stretch my luck that far. Its mighty unlikely ill need to draw, even more unlikely ill need to reload but id rather have it and not need it.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

It all depends on the situation you are in.

I have done what I would guess is now called a tactical reload more than once while in combat...usually this was :
Changing magazines before entering a building to clear it...
After providing supporting or suppressing fire and swapping out a partial magazine for a full one , before moving to a new position...
Topping off or exchanging magazines after shooting but before moving from my hide position...

Would I do any of this now...again , maybe , depending on the situation.
I really can't think of a time that I would...but its a good skill to practice , exchanging magazines or topping off a tube magazine of a shotgun , simply because , one should really learn all aspects of the gun that they use for defense.
Andy

 

[bbbass]

Well it might be true but there is a video of a Las Vegas police Shooting where the cop does a reload .
Lol it was alful he fumble around trying to put the mag in the gun backwards.
Accully I think he ran his gun empty .
But any way mag change practice is a must

Advanced Self Protection has several videos in which LEOs top off with a mag change. John Correia is pointing out that LEO engagements are different from CC holder gunfights, hence the question.

Me personally? .... We train tactical mag changes of both types at IDPA matches as well as mag dumps... IDK, I think I want the skill just in case... If I was in a gunfight I'd have to decide at that time what to do, run it dry or top it off (if I had the chance)... so I'm going with: Depends.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Advanced Self Protection has several videos in which LEOs top off with a mag change.

Can you post links, would like to see them.

At what point do they 'top off'?

 

[Cerberus Group]

Depends on how much time I think I have...

PS: I changed my vote because apparently this lull would allow me enough time to pocket a mag... I also shoot one handed more often than not, which I know is supposedly bad form.

This is a very late reply...shooting one handed is not bad form. Getting the job done is the desired result.

 

[Flymph]

This is a very late reply...shooting one handed is not bad form. Getting the job done is the desired result.

Better late than never!

I'm just glad the responses have been 100% positive!

 

[Kruel J]

It's a darned good thing I can't shoot for s***.

 

[Cerberus Group]

It's a darned good thing I can't shoot for s***.

I can help fix that.

 

[Flymph]

It's a darned good thing I can't shoot for s***.

You should try shooting a .22lr! They'll make you feel like a pro!