Poll: Tactical reload drills - Much benefit?

[bbbass]

I was watching a bunch of Youtube vids from John Correia of Active Self Protection... in one of the vids he opined that he didn't know of a single civilian gunfight where the defender had needed to reload. And so he thought that tactical reload drills (defined as: during a pause in shooting, a defender ejects a partially used magazine into his hand and retains it in a pocket or back in the mag holder) were over-emphasized and that his school taught them in the second part of training, after first concentrating on basic gun handling and SD shooting. He figured dumping a partial mag on the ground was better, since it wouldn't likely be needed to shoot again, and that the time saved to get sights up again was more critical.

What I know is that in IDPA, we have emphasis on tactical order, proper use of cover/concealment, and tactical reloads, among other things. Are we barking up the wrong tree?

Thoughts?

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[surevaliance]

Why no third option?

 

[Joe13]

You must play with it to understand it

 

[Joe13]

I guess it depends on whether your carrying a 10 round or 17 round gun and it depends on how many people you find yourself fighting against.

 

[Seraphim38]

I love watching Active Self Protection Channel. Not the only channel I like, but one of the favorites.

 

[bbbass]

I guess it depends on whether your carrying a 10 round or 17 round gun and it depends on how many people you find yourself fighting against.

Sounds right to me.

How many people would you be up against in a "typical" gunfight where you live/work?

 

[No_Regerts]

I practice them and do see value in having a full gun. I typically don't pocket the magazine, I just put it back in my carrier. My rationale is that I train to reload from magazine pouches, so i dont want to hunt for a magazine. My pouches are magnetic as well, so I can also just stick a partial to it and deal with it later.

Outside of work when I'm likely to carry a smaller gun concealed, Id feed the gun if I was in a lull.

 

[bbbass]

I love watching Active Self Protection Channel. Not the only channel I like, but one of the favorites.

I've enjoyed ASP channel a lot. Per usual, I don't agree with everything John says, but I dig the action! Where else can I watch the real deal? (Rhetorical)

I learned about the "grab" response... not what he called it, but it's where you grab something with one hand and the other hand wants to grab too. This resulted in an officer being shot in the back by her partner during an apt search for a possible perp. Penetrated her vest but she recovered.

 

[Seraphim38]

John Correia also will say that he has yet to see a video of a SD event involving civilians, where a second mag was needed.
Generally I think at least one spare mag should be on hand. 2 in case it really gets nuts but the likelihood that either will be needed is low.

 

[ferret427]

Even if the chances border on nil of ever having to do a tactical mag dump, my thinking is that if there is a pause, do not dump on the ground. A pause being that you believe there is time to swap to a fresh magazine. Otherwise you consider yourself still engaged, and then the you do not swap a magazine until empty. At that point dump to the ground and swap.
As far as training for them, if nothing else, I think the idea has merit. It is another action you have to perform under stress, and becoming proficient at decision making and doing things under stress is a good thing. That said, I would think training with random failures would be of great benefit (such as randomly mixing in a couple of snap caps into your magazines to force a failure at unexpected moments).

 

[surevaliance]

I dump magazine only when it's empty. That's how I was trained. Also, I was trained to count my shots.

 

[oli700]

Probably along the lines of asking someone when they get gas . Most the time keeping your rig topped off
is smart . If you had the chance and thought of it why not take advantage of a lull.... if you think of doing it . I bet it wouldn't feel good if you didn't , had a surprise and needed a mag change after three panic shots

 

[Joe13]

Sounds right to me.

How many people would you be up against in a "typical" gunfight where you live/work?

No idea.

I've had a pair of dudes look like they at least thought they might start something but didn't so I mentally prepare for 3-4 people I'm defending against.

If they have knives or guns it changes everything. As does if my family is with me or not.

I'm not what most people would describe as approachable when out in public.

At home I plan for the worst but I don't live in a bad part of town or anything.

I keep a gun on me and the safe unlocked with long options a plenty when I am at home.

My work doesn't allow guns in the building so I have alternatives and am comfortable with them.



Honestly I don't ever see myself in a sustained gunfight - but like has been said, I'd rather have options if I do.

 

[ferret427]

Just thought of something to consider:
Say you actually do get into some zombie apocalypse fracas, and the fight is such that you have your carry piece and a couple of spare magazines. I can see two scenarios. The first is where you TMD and manage to hang on to the depleted magazines. Conceivably, if you were to exhaust all of your ammo, you could end up doing up doing a lot of magazine dumps which take time at unpredictable intervals due to unknown round count. The other is you shoot to empty and reload for 3 dumps and you never have to worry about how many rounds you think you might have left in those partial mags. Seems there might be something to be said for shooting till empty before reloading, available cover and such being equal. Would like to hear thoughts on this.

 

[titsonritz]

A mag change is a mag change, It's going in the dirt.

 

[No_Regerts]

I dump magazine only when it's empty. That's how I was trained. Also, I was trained to count my shots.

I've haven't tested the theory, but I've heard of physiological benefits to shot counting. Heart rate/motor control.

 

[Member 34319]

It's not USPSA, you don't get to go back and pick up your magazines when things are finished.

 

[titsonritz]

It's not USPSA, you don't get to go back and pick up your magazines when things are finished.

You're right, it's a gunfight and magazines are a disposable item.

 

[Member 34319]

You're right, it's a gunfight and magazines are a disposable item.

I was going for the opposite. Magazines are not a disposable item.

You may not get to pick them up, was my point.

If you leave them, when and where do you get more?

 

[titsonritz]

I was going for the opposite. Magazines are not a disposable item.

You may not get to pick them up, was my point.

If you leave them, when and where do you get more?

So if you were in a gunfight today you would pause to deal a magazine?