Surviving the draft

[Just Jim]

You guys may not remember it was the progressive socialist that started WWII and how many people have been killed since then by the progressives. Millions have died.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/31/iran-nuclear-us-missiles-gulf

Tension between the US and Iran heightened dramatically today with the disclosure that Barack Obama is deploying a missile shield to protect American allies in the Gulf from attack by Tehran.

Drudge is reporting tonight that Irans is threatening the west and will take action Feb 11

http://www.drudgereport.com/

War got us out of the last depression and made heros out of the progressives that were in power.

History is about to take place again, when you get drafted leave me your guns

jj

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[Bubba Rogowski]

Just because the Nazis has "socialist" in their name doesn't mean they were really leftists. They waged a war in the East that dwarfed the one on the Western front because they hated the Bolshevik ideology (and considered the Russians barbarians). He didn't want conquest for the "workers," it was for "Deutschland," good old fashioned nationalism and conquest. Hitler hated also Bolshevism because he associated it with Jews. Look at the Nazis relationship to big business: they allowed it to proceed largely unfettered. The Soviets would just have taken it over and began a bass-ackwards management plan Stalin dreamed up. I realize that the political spectrum--often taught as a simple line--is better represented as a loop, and the far left (USSR) and the far right (Nazis) look pretty much the same in practice (ie, brutal and authoritiarian). But just because they both degenerate into tyranny doesn't mean they're fundamentally the same.

But I hope it doesn't take another a war to beat this economy: our credit is bad enough already!

 

[doobee8]

The action they will take will probably be in the form of Oil production. It's more devastating than any bomb they can construct at this time. We're in the worst recession and a spike in oil prices will make that worse, which I can see them wanting.

 

[SquatchWorks]

Thank god for flat feet!

 

[Thule]

Nazism and fascism is actually on the left. Just because they have a different idea of ideals doesn't make them "right wing".

There is often a lot of confusion about right vs. left since they don't seem to teach this in schools anymore. Take 10 minutes for a quick civics lesson - it should clear things up a bit: http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment

 

[Gunner3456]

Nazism and fascism is actually on the left. Just because they have a different idea of ideals doesn't make them "right wing".

There is often a lot of confusion about right vs. left since they don't seem to teach this in schools anymore. Take 10 minutes for a quick civics lesson - it should clear things up a bit: http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment

I agree completely. All "maximum government" beliefs are far left. No government at all, or "anarchy" is the farthest right you can go.

I disagree with the clip that our Republic was intended to be in the middle. I see it as very far right. Our founders, not only in our constitution but in their personal writings wanted very limited government and maximum personal freedom. In fact, you might say that our constitution was written to limit government in favor of personal freedom. Certainly the Bill of Rights which is part of our constitution and includes the 1st and 2nd amendments (freedom of speech, of religion, of the press, to assemble, to bear arms) limits government in favor of the individual. The 4th amendment against unreasonable search and seizure and giving individual rights in property and personal affects also fits that description.

As a people we have been duped. Our education system and our MSM dupe the people. Our founders never intended, nor does our constitution allow all of this federal government.

Our schools and MSM teach that the far left is "good" and "compassionate" and that the far right is a bunch of religious nuts. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The far right wants freedom (read Ron Paul) and the far left is heading us into a crash with crushing government spending and regulating, and many of them even want a one world government which would control everything.

 

[nixuser]

just remember the draft is and always be voluntary as long as we have the constitution !

those of us remember when we volunteered to join the service at some point they ask you to take one step forward and raise your right hand !!! that's your voluntary action if at that point you ask them will i be giving up any of my constitutional rights if I do this they cannot force you to give up any of your constitutional rights !!!!
they will try to intimadate and interogate you into giving up your rights but if you stand firm you will prevail !!
always read the fine print !!!

 

[ZachS]

just remember the draft is and always be voluntary as long as we have the constitution !

those of us remember when we volunteered to join the service at some point they ask you to take one step forward and raise your right hand !!! that's your voluntary action if at that point you ask them will i be giving up any of my constitutional rights if I do this they cannot force you to give up any of your constitutional rights !!!!
they will try to intimadate and interogate you into giving up your rights but if you stand firm you will prevail !!
always read the fine print !!!

Try telling that to my dad, grandfather, and great grandfather. I'm proud of them for serving, and of everyone else who serves, but none of them wanted to - and I'm glad that I wasn't forced to.

 

[speelyei]

just remember the draft is and always be voluntary as long as we have the constitution !

those of us remember when we volunteered to join the service at some point they ask you to take one step forward and raise your right hand !!! that's your voluntary action if at that point you ask them will i be giving up any of my constitutional rights if I do this they cannot force you to give up any of your constitutional rights !!!!
they will try to intimadate and interogate you into giving up your rights but if you stand firm you will prevail !!
always read the fine print !!!

I've heard that if you fail to register for selective service for any reason you can be denied certain benefits, like Financial Aid.

 

[matt_w]

just remember the draft is and always be voluntary as long as we have the constitution !

those of us remember when we volunteered to join the service at some point they ask you to take one step forward and raise your right hand !!! that's your voluntary action if at that point you ask them will i be giving up any of my constitutional rights if I do this they cannot force you to give up any of your constitutional rights !!!!
they will try to intimadate and interogate you into giving up your rights but if you stand firm you will prevail !!
always read the fine print !!!

This sounds like the same kind of argument from the people who try to get away without paying income tax. Sounds good in theory, but good luck with that!

 

[bugeye]

Nazism and fascism is actually on the left. Just because they have a different idea of ideals doesn't make them "right wing".

There is often a lot of confusion about right vs. left since they don't seem to teach this in schools anymore. Take 10 minutes for a quick civics lesson - it should clear things up a bit: http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment

Yeah, I have ten minutes to listen to bad music and a thesis that coud be presented in a paragraph?

Your link redefines the definition of left and right as treats it as if this has always been the case, this simply isn't so. In short, the right wants to shed its connection with nice places like Nazi Germany and give that to the left. This leaves them in the pure glow of idealized states of small gov and great personal liberty, nice trick, next they will levitate and redefine themselves as the gods of Olympus.

From Wikkipedia

"Traditionally, the Left includes: progressives, social liberals, social democrats, socialists, communists and anarchists[2][3][4][5] while the Right includes: conservatives, reactionaries, monarchists, nationalists and fascists.[6]

The terms left and right are often used to spin a particular point of view, rather than as simple descriptors. In modern political rhetoric, those on the Left typically emphasize their support of working people and accuse the Right of supporting the interests of the upper class, whereas those on the Right usually emphasize their support of individualism and accuse the Left of supporting collectivism. Thus, arguments about the way the words should be used often displace arguments about policy by raising emotional prejudice against a preconceived notion of what left and right mean.[
"

In practical terms in modern America the left is the side that is most worried about the coporations and the money taking over, and the right is the side worried about the government taking over. The left sees the gov as the only institution we have that is strong enough to stand up to corporate power. The right sees the corporations as the great generators of wealth and sees the gov as needlessly messing with them. Somewhere in between these two sides we can continue to function as a working state, because both have a legitimate point of view.

In general the right is far better financed then the left, the corporations have the dough. They use this money to produce a wide variety of media that is designed to make people increasingly distrustful of the government, as that lets the corporate inmates run the asylum. These shows are biased beyond belief. This video is another example of a self serving, right wing promoted hogwash.

The left also has a few media outlets, but the concept that the normal news is left wing is a tribute to the fine brainwashing of the right, of course it you produce a far right mind it is going to find the center far to the left, so it is an easy sell once you properly indoctrinate. We are all brainwashed there is not escape in our media dominated culture.

Our corporations are great but they need to be regulated or they will sink to the lowest levels to make profit, that is what they do, that is how they work! Our recent history is filled with examples for the need for regulation. Our gov is being subverted by the corporate money, and their ability to stand up to keep things in balance is at a low point. In addition the corporations have produced a zombielike army of gov haters who are immune from ever changing their opinion regardless of argument or fact. In this picture I don't see much hope for our traditional America, and I see a corporate controlled state heading our way.

We talk alot about our founding fathers, IMHO, if they really had a concept of how easy it was going to be to turn millions into rabid wackos, spouting factless nonsense, they wouldn't have bothered with the revolution. Instead, they felt that we were a people capable of thinking for ourselves, determining a common reality, and solving our problems with a pragmatic approach.

 

[Gunner3456]

Yeah, I have ten minutes to listen to bad music and a thesis that coud be presented in a paragraph?

Your link redefines the definition of left and right as treats it as if this has always been the case, this simply isn't so. In short, the right wants to shed its connection with nice places like Nazi Germany and give that to the left. This leaves them in the pure glow of idealized states of small gov and great personal liberty, nice trick, next they will levitate and redefine themselves as the gods of Olympus.

From Wikkipedia

"Traditionally, the Left includes: progressives, social liberals, social democrats, socialists, communists and anarchists[2][3][4][5] while the Right includes: conservatives, reactionaries, monarchists, nationalists and fascists.[6]

The terms left and right are often used to spin a particular point of view, rather than as simple descriptors. In modern political rhetoric, those on the Left typically emphasize their support of working people and accuse the Right of supporting the interests of the upper class, whereas those on the Right usually emphasize their support of individualism and accuse the Left of supporting collectivism. Thus, arguments about the way the words should be used often displace arguments about policy by raising emotional prejudice against a preconceived notion of what left and right mean.[
"

In practical terms in modern America the left is the side that is most worried about the coporations and the money taking over, and the right is the side worried about the government taking over. The left sees the gov as the only institution we have that is strong enough to stand up to corporate power. The right sees the corporations as the great generators of wealth and sees the gov as needlessly messing with them. Somewhere in between these two sides we can continue to function as a working state, because both have a legitimate point of view.

In general the right is far better financed then the left, the corporations have the dough. They use this money to produce a wide variety of media that is designed to make people increasingly distrustful of the government, as that lets the corporate inmates run the asylum. These shows are biased beyond belief. This video is another example of a self serving, right wing promoted hogwash.

The left also has a few media outlets, but the concept that the normal news is left wing is a tribute to the fine brainwashing of the right, of course it you produce a far right mind it is going to find the center far to the left, so it is an easy sell once you properly indoctrinate. We are all brainwashed there is not escape in our media dominated culture.

Our corporations are great but they need to be regulated or they will sink to the lowest levels to make profit, that is what they do, that is how they work! Our recent history is filled with examples for the need for regulation. Our gov is being subverted by the corporate money, and their ability to stand up to keep things in balance is at a low point. In addition the corporations have produced a zombielike army of gov haters who are immune from ever changing their opinion regardless of argument or fact. In this picture I don't see much hope for our traditional America, and I see a corporate controlled state heading our way.

We talk alot about our founding fathers, IMHO, if they really had a concept of how easy it was going to be to turn millions into rabid wackos, spouting factless nonsense, they wouldn't have bothered with the revolution. Instead, they felt that we were a people capable of thinking for ourselves, determining a common reality, and solving our problems with a pragmatic approach.

Ah, Wikipedia, so reliable because it's the place where any idiot can write his drivel. Reminds me of some internet forums.

 

[SquatchWorks]

Nazi or in german short for National Socialist party was BOTH Right and Left wing!!!

However they started Right wing when Hitler joined into this. It later evloved into a Paganistic Cult. belive it or not, I just watched a show about the Nazi's called "inside the Nazi OCult" on history channel. It started out with promoting socialism and that the government should be in control of everything. Im sure you know what the outcome of the nazi party was...

 

[slingshot1943]

I can see where the left is worried about corporations and money taking over. Thats why they love the poor folks like George Soros, Bill Gates, Opra, The Kennedys etc.

 

[Thule]

In a free society, corporations don't "take over" anything. That is leftist propaganda nonsense. Notice how leftists always take the posture of the victim...

The big difference between dealing with corporations and the government is that one is voluntary and one is not. Don't like the way a corporation acts? Put your money where your mouth is and don't subscribe to their products. Don't like something that the governments wants? Too bad, pay up or go to jail. One is freedom, one is tyranny - it's that simple.

The Wikipedia article posted above is explaining the ignorant modern convolution of the right vs. left terms - it doesn't make it correct. Just like today's modern Statist calls themselves "Liberals". There is nothing liberal about compulsory statism.

 

[sbryson21]

Yeah, I have ten minutes to listen to bad music and a thesis that coud be presented in a paragraph?

Your link redefines the definition of left and right as treats it as if this has always been the case, this simply isn't so. In short, the right wants to shed its connection with nice places like Nazi Germany and give that to the left. This leaves them in the pure glow of idealized states of small gov and great personal liberty, nice trick, next they will levitate and redefine themselves as the gods of Olympus.

From Wikkipedia

"Traditionally, the Left includes: progressives, social liberals, social democrats, socialists, communists and anarchists[2][3][4][5] while the Right includes: conservatives, reactionaries, monarchists, nationalists and fascists.[6]

The terms left and right are often used to spin a particular point of view, rather than as simple descriptors. In modern political rhetoric, those on the Left typically emphasize their support of working people and accuse the Right of supporting the interests of the upper class, whereas those on the Right usually emphasize their support of individualism and accuse the Left of supporting collectivism. Thus, arguments about the way the words should be used often displace arguments about policy by raising emotional prejudice against a preconceived notion of what left and right mean.[
"

In practical terms in modern America the left is the side that is most worried about the coporations and the money taking over, and the right is the side worried about the government taking over. The left sees the gov as the only institution we have that is strong enough to stand up to corporate power. The right sees the corporations as the great generators of wealth and sees the gov as needlessly messing with them. Somewhere in between these two sides we can continue to function as a working state, because both have a legitimate point of view.

In general the right is far better financed then the left, the corporations have the dough. They use this money to produce a wide variety of media that is designed to make people increasingly distrustful of the government, as that lets the corporate inmates run the asylum. These shows are biased beyond belief. This video is another example of a self serving, right wing promoted hogwash.

The left also has a few media outlets, but the concept that the normal news is left wing is a tribute to the fine brainwashing of the right, of course it you produce a far right mind it is going to find the center far to the left, so it is an easy sell once you properly indoctrinate. We are all brainwashed there is not escape in our media dominated culture.

Our corporations are great but they need to be regulated or they will sink to the lowest levels to make profit, that is what they do, that is how they work! Our recent history is filled with examples for the need for regulation. Our gov is being subverted by the corporate money, and their ability to stand up to keep things in balance is at a low point. In addition the corporations have produced a zombielike army of gov haters who are immune from ever changing their opinion regardless of argument or fact. In this picture I don't see much hope for our traditional America, and I see a corporate controlled state heading our way.

We talk alot about our founding fathers, IMHO, if they really had a concept of how easy it was going to be to turn millions into rabid wackos, spouting factless nonsense, they wouldn't have bothered with the revolution. Instead, they felt that we were a people capable of thinking for ourselves, determining a common reality, and solving our problems with a pragmatic approach.

I don't even know where to start with this.... You act as if big corporations and gov't are in two seperate categories which I refuse to believe you're that ignorant. We're seeing the problem with the progressive big gov't model in America right now. Big corporations pay for politicians to get into office and then the politicians pay back the big corps in bailouts and payoffs. If we didn't have big gov't in the way the big corps like GM, GE, Goldman Sachs, etc, etc, etc would have fallen to the wayside like they should have. Sure it would have hurt for a while but that's part of resetting the system and flushing out the garbage that we have and can't get rid of because of your precious big gov't. Can't you see? The big gov't model and huge corporations go hand and hand. Take gov't interference out of the picture and things will correct itself.

Also, the media is controlled by the right???? Wow, what planet did you say you came from? You talk about being brainwashed, you can't even see the fact that 95% of the news outlets are controlled by progressives. I mean, come on, it's not even close! And when there's actually A news outlet that doesn't go with the program they're constantly assaulted by all the progressive left as being radical. Man, the spin that you guys put on stuff never ceases to amaze me.

 

[bugeye]

Ah, Wikipedia, so reliable because it's the place where any idiot can write his drivel. Reminds me of some internet forums.

Actually, I find wikipedia to be very accurate, and the quote to be correct. Because nearly everyone can participate in refining a listing it tends be become accurate with time. But you have the net, if you go and get 5 definitions for these terms from a google search and I bet you at least 4 of them match the quote.

 

[bugeye]

I can see where the left is worried about corporations and money taking over. Thats why they love the poor folks like George Soros, Bill Gates, Opra, The Kennedys etc.

OK, there is some money on the left side, I never said there wasn't, but a heck of a lot more money on the right side, If I stated a list it would go on for many pages, if I did that would it change your mind about anything? So, you have a few exceptions but not to break the rule. Though it is interesting that 3 of the 4 you mentioned are self made, if I did the list for the right maybe one in a ten would be, if that high a percentage. New wealth comes from the US being a meritocracy (where merit is rewarded), old wealth wants an aristocracy (where they stay in control), it only stands to reason.

 

[bugeye]

In a free society, corporations don't "take over" anything. That is leftist propaganda nonsense. Notice how leftists always take the posture of the victim...

The big difference between dealing with corporations and the government is that one is voluntary and one is not. Don't like the way a corporation acts? Put your money where your mouth is and don't subscribe to their products. Don't like something that the governments wants? Too bad, pay up or go to jail. One is freedom, one is tyranny - it's that simple.

The Wikipedia article posted above is explaining the ignorant modern convolution of the right vs. left terms - it doesn't make it correct. Just like today's modern Statist calls themselves "Liberals". There is nothing liberal about compulsory statism.

The free market in action huh? My house runs of natural gas, where is the competion for supply? My car runs on gas, the oil companies that run the refineries have lowered production via an agreement to keep the price up, what do I do? The insurance companies that take premiums for health care all take a 30% overhead for doing a simple administrative function, so where do I go.

Your view is fine only for deciding where to shop for groceries, at least half my expenditures are not made in a free market, how about you? By the way I feel the free market works wonderful for groceries as there is actual competion going on there.

No the Wikki article is explaining left and right as they have been for at least 50 years, but you do illustrate the imposibility of trying to find a common reality with some people, you just won't take the truth from anyone, say, can you stand people that always have to be right even when they are wrong?

Also you will need to define the term Statism, I suppose not being happy with reinventing the language to suit your needs you seem to now be creating your own?

 

[bugeye]

I don't even know where to start with this.... You act as if big corporations and gov't are in two seperate categories which I refuse to believe you're that ignorant. We're seeing the problem with the progressive big gov't model in America right now. Big corporations pay for politicians to get into office and then the politicians pay back the big corps in bailouts and payoffs. If we didn't have big gov't in the way the big corps like GM, GE, Goldman Sachs, etc, etc, etc would have fallen to the wayside like they should have. Sure it would have hurt for a while but that's part of resetting the system and flushing out the garbage that we have and can't get rid of because of your precious big gov't. Can't you see? The big gov't model and huge corporations go hand and hand. Take gov't interference out of the picture and things will correct itself.

Also, the media is controlled by the right???? Wow, what planet did you say you came from? You talk about being brainwashed, you can't even see the fact that 95% of the news outlets are controlled by progressives. I mean, come on, it's not even close! And when there's actually A news outlet that doesn't go with the program they're constantly assaulted by all the progressive left as being radical. Man, the spin that you guys put on stuff never ceases to amaze me.

No, I said that the money and corporations are subverting the elected part of the gov, so that they are working together for control and making the people less a part of control. Before I can go any further I need you to define the word Progressive. You see you righties keep changing the definitions of terms, like left and right, liberal, progressive, conservative and patriot, for some self serving process of confusion. That is what this thread is about, terms. You illustrate the subversion of another term, progressive, say isn't it a characteristic of cults that they all have their own terms for things.

Nice rant though, is any of that claptrap actually your own thinking?