Semi-Auto vs Revolver for Concealed Carry

[Andy54Hawken]

Changing of handgun grips and ammo.....
Along with learning to hold and shoot in a manner that brings you the results you need...safely
Can all be done in the search for less recoil.

I again urge you to keep the 686 and take a look at different ammo and grips as well as learning to hold and shoot properly
Rather than go with a lighter handgun.
Andy

 

[OldBroad44]

I figure I am lo-fi in that regard. Like to see the bullets in the cylinder when needed & absent when not.

Can flip it back open to check if I forget.

With semi autos too much goes on behind the scenes for my comfort level. Slides dispensing casings, rechambering a round, being again ready to shoot. A spring pushing up all subsequent rounds. I don't trust all of that. Maybe at some point, I will.

Plus in terms of aesthetics. I marvel at the 686, its being so good at what it does, no frills. Like a quality car vs. those disposable offerings on the road these days. Pride of ownership should factor into both cars & guns.

I mainly just tolerate the looks of semi autos. They don't put much into their presentation these days. The manufacturers must think that as long as they've got the latest technology in their gun, and if they test with good specs, they're golden. Less recoil, in this sense, being just another technological advance.

So perhaps like you, I'm going to stay the course & put up with my punishment until I get good at it. Getting a better stance & grip will surely help. The inspiration is there though.

Hello @duldej .
I enjoy shooting revolvers more than semi autos in part because I hate loading magazines. Even with a magazine loader. I enjoy reloading a revolver. Its a quiet contemplative act.

Semiautos are rude. They throw their brass all over. Then in order to avoid being a litter bug and to save the brass for reloading I have to crawl around in the dust or grass picking up the brass. The revolver is polite. It keeps the brass discreetly contained until its time to open the cylinder and dump the brass into the can I keep handy for the purpose. Do save your brass by the way. You can find someone to reload it to your specs. Or trade it for reloaded ammo. And you may take up reloading yourself some day.

The 686 and 629 are superb hunting revolvers in .357mag and .44mag respectively.

The 357 mag with bear loads is effective as SD against black bears if you shoot them in the head/brain. A caveat for SD against charging bears with any handgun caliber including .44 mag, .454 Casull, etc. The shot to brain or spine incapacitates instantly. All other shots from handgun calibers mean the bear has plenty of time to kill or maim you before dying. Bear loads are heavy hard cast bullets with flat tips that can get through a couple inch thick sloped bear skull without deflecting off. Sure bears can be killed by even a .22 to the head sometimes -- the SIDE of the head where the bone is thin and not sloped like the skull of a bear charging you. If the bear is charging you need to shoot it in the brain. If it isn't you don't need to shoot it at all unless bear hunting. You can do either with a .357 mag loaded with bear loads. Manufacturers do not even make bear loads for 9mm semiautos. That is beyond their pay grade. Bear loads in semi autos start with 10mm. The highest loads of 10mm and heaviest loads of .357 mag are about comparable . Those who claim the 10mm is superior are comparing the most powerful 10mm loads to mid-power 357 mag loads . I live near MacDonald Forest and we have bears. One came into my yard after my ducks one night and paid no attention when I spotlighted it and yelled at it. It just kept coming. Then I put a shot in the ground next to bear. It evaporated. Ran so fast it Was difficult to even see which way it went. And it never returned. My neighborhood has cougars too. No, not me. Mountain lions.

Its only possible for me to point shoot or hip shoot well with a revolver, not a semiauto. The muzzle heavy balance of the 686, even the 686 snubby, and the 629 Classic make it easy for my hand to feel exactly where the muzzle is. Most SD scenarios assume you are on your two feet and have time and space enough to bring the gun up into the line of sight between your eyes and target. But many attacks on women or muggings start with an unexpected blow to the face. And you are on the ground after that, and need to be able to point shoot. Also, making best use of cover may require point shooting.

The 686 and 629 have first rate big useful sights that allow you to do holdover. Suppose I am making camp and come upon a rattlesnake in my campsite. I do not normally kill snakes, but a rattlesnake in my campsite would be an exception. They are notorious for being attracted to the warmth of a camper after dark.... And if you roll over on a rattlesnake at night things will not go well. So lets say I need to shoot the snake in its dime sized brain at a distance of 12' . but how do I aim? The 6" gun is sighted in for 50 yards. At 12' distance I just hold the front sight up so about a quarter of it projects above the line of the back sight notch. At 6 feet I would hold over about half the front sight At 25' just a smidge. At 50' I use standard sight picture. At distances beyond 50 yards you can start doing holdover again to correct for bullet drop. But what I've done is guess bullet drop. For example shoot at the upper part of the chest cavity on a deer so it still goes down if the bullet drops a few inches. Or if bullet doesn't drop because distance was really 50 yards. Closest I've ever shot a deer. In the brain at 12'. Farthest was broadside at about 60 yards. Both with a 4" Colt .357 mag. 75 yards is my limit for an unscoped revolver shooting from offhand . Plenty of handgun hunters can do way better than that. I'm just an ordinary good shooter. Not a competition level shooter. A revolver in .357 was my companion In my hiking and camping days and took many a rabbit for the evening stew .

 

[OldBroad44]

Lots of helpful posts later, it occurred to me that it was probably both the weight of the 686, my poor stance & grip (one handed), plus the acoustics in the indoor range that were more at issue than the actual recoil.

Like I said a few posts back, I psyched myself out, and figured, at the time (~8 yrs ago) that was due to the recoil. In retrospect, I blame my unpleasant experience on the above factors, which is still on me, but probably not due to sheer recoil.

Economically debating today whether to trade the 686 for the 442 or buy the 442 outright.

The 442 remains a popular handgun after 70+ yrs and if @OldBroad44 can shoot it, others, I am willing to learn it.

As indicated, I signed up for 1 of several lessons in the next few weeks so as to learn stance & grip.

The instructor will not steer me wrong.

I have never shot the 442 airweight and never will. That's way more recoil than I want to deal with. I have owned a steel J frame Smith in .38 with full size adjustable sights and found it unpleasant with .38 +P ammo. And I couldn't shoot it very well. Even though its much heavier than the Airweight and had real adjustable sights I couldn't shoot it well. The frame was too small for my hand. And I can't shoot light guns well. I also detest the idea of bobbing or covering access to the hammer of revolvers. Its like throwing out the baby and keeping the bathwater. One of the great virtues of the revolver is the fact that it has both a DA and a SA mode and either can be chosen at any point at will. A DA-only revolver is fine for close range SD but not for longer range SD or hunting. And the only advantage of covering the hammer is in case you need to shoot from a pocket. I don't normally carry a revolver in a pocket. I also hate revolvers that don't have real sights on them. Full size adjustable sights. The main virtue of the Airweight is in an ankle holster. I don't carry a concealed gun that way either.

During my hiking and camping days, I had a dog. What if my dog got involved with a bear or cougar and I had to save her? She might be some distance off, not point blank range. Likewise if I was hiking with a friend or family members.

By the time we're talking about guns like the Airweight I'd rather have a big knife. Like the Airweight a big knife in my hands has some but very limited usefulness in a SD situation. But SD situations are much rarer than my need to open Amazon boxes or spread peanut butter.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

With all due respect....
Instructors have their likes , dislikes and to use a trendy term , bias....
They may or may not steer you wrong.

Came here to say this! A good rule of thumb is that an trainers job is to train you, not sell you merchandise

And it may have been mentioned already but get a good GUN belt and holster, dress belts suck and bad holsters can get you killed.

 

[dangerranger60]

I have had a 642 in my pocket every day for over 5 years. Its not a gun I shoot because I like shooting it. I shoot Federal 148gr Gold Medal Wad Cutters. They are a low recoil round that still cuts a full caliber hole and penetrates deeply.
The reason I carry it is it disappears in a pocket. If you look online for 38 spl. Cowboy Loads, you will get light recoiling practice rounds that will feel more like a 22 Mag from your 686.
The reason I like revolvers is they don't depend on the power of the round to cycle the action. With a revolver I can practice with the lightest recoil and carry as high as my Arthritic wrists will allow.
With a revolver it can be fired from inside a pocket if necessary. And with a revolver I have never lost my mag.
DR

 

[Olderguy]

A friend, who was a long time PI used to carry a 642 in his jacket pocket, so that he he could shoot through the pocket if necessary. The 642 seems ideal for this type of carry.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I own some big bore stuff. Frankly trending towards absurd in power. However, A Ruger LCR in 38 special +P was one of the most painful guns I ever shot. (The Polish P83 I own is worse but that is due to all the sharp edges everywhere)

So, you may want to consider a heavier weight revolver if you go that route. I'd rather touch off 30 rounds of .454 out of my ruger, over one out of that LCR. (and 30 .454 rounds is excessive for most anyone's hands. I have done it, don't really advise doing it)

However, if recoil sensitive for whatever reason, the .32 in various forms is a viable option. I mean a ruger LCR or LCRx in 327 can also shoot 32 S&W long if you want low to no recoil. The full power 327 loads have similar recoil to a 9mm and are not punishing at all out of that gun. The perceived recoil is far less than the .38 special version. In fact, I carry it when I do not carry a p365.

 

[eustace_stelio]

Nothing wrong with a .32 revolver. Heck that's what Paul Kersey used in Death Wish.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Nothing wrong with a .32 revolver. Heck that's what Paul Kersey used in Death Wish.

Sock full of quarters too.

 

[nammac]

Sock full of quarters too.

With inflation, it'd need to be a sock full of dollar coins…

 

[Certaindeaf]

Why settle?

 

[duldej]

Just completed Basic Handgun 1 using a Glock 19. Targets set at about 10 feet. Brought my wife in, who also took the class.

Super fun.

Although it's pending rt now (a different thread), I went ahead and paid for the 442.

Like some of you had indicated, I may need to get a semi-, too, somewhere down the road. I do not consider the purchase a mistake.

Re: The target w/the perp on it, we were instructed to aim for both elbows, the grip, and region 10.

 

[Catfishmoon]

With semi autos too much goes on behind the scenes for my comfort level. Slides dispensing casings, rechambering a round, being again ready to shoot. A spring pushing up all subsequent rounds. I don't trust all of that. Maybe at some point, I will.

That is fair enough, it all comes down to personal preferences, pick whatever you are comfortable with.
The same argument you put forth could also be made for choosing a single shot handgun over a revolver, less chance of a mechanical problem occurring.

 

[duldej]

That is fair enough, it all comes down to personal preferences, pick whatever you are comfortable with.
The same argument you put forth could also be made for choosing a single shot handgun over a revolver, less chance of a mechanical problem occurring.

I like 'em both, now.

Incidentally, my wife's gun (not sure the build), which was semi-automatic, jammed while she was in class, which is the bulk of my own complaint on the semi's, per se.

On the same topic, different take, although she does not let on, I could tell she took pride in her effective shooting. Image of Wife's targets, attached.

Kinda weird, though. A beginner, her biggest complaint was the noise. She didn't like when the others in the class fired, and she did not like the noise her own gun made.

As that's pretty much what I had been complaining about, on my own behalf, at the beginning of this thread, and having thought about it, I think it was a political/psychological hangup that you're going to get in trouble for shooting a gun.

Gotta say, though, that a class setting for this type of hangup is the remedy. I heard 9mm rounds for an hour, and I just focused on being the best in the class.

 

[eustace_stelio]

A lot of people are surprised by how loud guns are but I mean it's literally an explosion.

 

[Certaindeaf]

A lot of people are surprised by how loud guns are but I mean it's literally an explosion.

If you've ever raw dogged an hkg3k you literally don't care about explosions.

 

[Catfishmoon]

A lot of people are surprised by how loud guns are but I mean it's literally an explosion.

I agree..
It is literally an explosion that is happening about two feet in front of your face and it does take practice to accommodate it.

 

[E4mafia]

Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Jay Walk]

This may not be helpful but the Kimber 3" DASA is the slimmest 6 shot .357 and shoots .38 like a dream with very mild recoil. They make a hammerless double action only as well.

 

[bbbass]

My wife has a Taurus :-o .357 snubbie, hammerless, and ported barrel. It shoots .38 like a dream. Very smooth double action. But it came with a 12lb pull, so I put a Wolfe trigger spring kit in it... very nice!!

BTW, in SD you prolly won't feel the recoil at all. Adrenaline will be so high.