Russian troop build up on the Ukrainian border ...

[wired]

If there isn't oil, minerals or a deep water port involved, these "adjustments" are often not necessary.

They have oil and gas out the ying yang and Sevastopol is what? 90% Russian?

 

[DirectDrive]

They have oil and gas out the ying yang and Sevastopol is what? 90% Russian?

He wanted the port for his Black Sea fleet.

 

[wired]

He wanted the port for his Black Sea fleet.

Of course he did. It's a Russian port

 

[DirectDrive]

LOL
I don't think he cared what nationality it was (unless it was Finnish), but he had a nice excuse for "liberating" it.

 

[GWS]

Its not spurious at all. Crimea was placed under the administration of the Ukrainian oblast before the breakup of the Soviet Union for the sake of efficiency . It never was "part of Ukraine" . It has a vast majority of ethnic Ruissians and Russian speakers. This is just an adjustment.

Crimea was part of the Ottoman Empire till Russia took it late in the 18th century. .Stalin threw the native Tatars out in 1944, dumping them in Central Asia which, of course changed the demographic of that area to Russian majority. transferred Kruschev gave/ceded/handed over the Crimea to the Ukraine in 1954.
That made it legally Ukrainian territory.
Putin wanted it for Russia so he invaded and took it back.
Putin/Russia had no more legal claim to that territory than Hitler had to the Rhineland or Sudetenland. They both wanted the territory so they took it by force of arms and in both cases, the rest of the world did nothing beyond harshly worded diplomatic exchanges.
When territory is taken by force of arms, its not an adjustment, It's piracy, an invasion, a coup.

 

[wired]

Crimea was part of the Ottoman Empire till Russia took it late in the 18th century. .Stalin threw the native Tatars out in 1944, dumping them in Central Asia which, of course changed the demographic of that area to Russian majority. transferred Kruschev gave/ceded/handed over the Crimea to the Ukraine in 1954.
That made it legally Ukrainian territory.
Putin wanted it for Russia so he invaded and took it back.
Putin/Russia had no more legal claim to that territory than Hitler had to the Rhineland or Sudetenland. They both wanted the territory so they took it by force of arms and in both cases, the rest of the world did nothing beyond harshly worded diplomatic exchanges.
When territory is taken by force of arms, its not an adjustment, It's piracy, an invasion, a coup.

Hitler didnt take the Rhineland. It was an integral part of Germany. It was just a buffer zone that Hitler sent German troops into.

Handing Crimea over to Ukraine to administer was a Soviet mistake that was corrected recently. No one cares who administered it prior to the 18th century. Its full of ethnic Russians NOW.

 

[monkeybutler]

Handing Crimea over to Ukraine to administer was a Soviet mistake that was corrected recently. No one cares who administered it prior to the 18th century. Its full of ethnic Russians NOW.

What would little Vladdie and his thug-o-crat buddies do without their summer dachas in the colonized territories? Where would they play with their miniature giraffes?

 

[wired]

What would little Vladdie and his thug-o-crat buddies do without their summer dachas in the colonized territories? Where would they play with their miniature giraffes?

Sochi. Beautiful resort town.

 

[GWS]

Hitler didnt take the Rhineland. It was an integral part of Germany. It was just a buffer zone that Hitler sent German troops into.

Handing Crimea over to Ukraine to administer was a Soviet mistake that was corrected recently. No one cares who administered it prior to the 18th century. Its full of ethnic Russians NOW.

My mistake on the Rhineland However, were German troops banned by treaty from being stationed within 50 miles of the Rhine after WWI? Was their entry to the Rhineland a violation of that treaty?
Regardless of Rhineland, Sudetenland was clearly not German territory before Hitler moved in. Nor was the Crimea Russian territory before Putin invaded. Why is Crimea majority Russian? Because Stalin deported all the Tatars that lived there, to Central Asia in 1944. Hardly a Russian hereditary homeland there, is it?
I get that the winners write the history, but what I don't get is your calling it a correction and/or an adjustment. Corrections and adjustments are done through negotiation. What Putin did was an invasion.

 

[monkeybutler]

Sudetenland was clearly not German territory before Hitler moved in.

It was mostly German, ethnically.

Nor was the Crimea Russian territory before Putin invaded. Why is Crimea majority Russian? Because Stalin deported all the Tatars that lived there, to Central Asia in 1944. Hardly a Russian hereditary homeland there, is it?
I get that the winners write the history, but what I don't get is your calling it a correction and/or an adjustment. Corrections and adjustments are done through negotiation. What Putin did was an invasion.

Crimea was owned by both Russia and the USSR, however it was relatively recent in history - there is no 'deeply historical' Russian claim to Crimea, it it now just opportunistic based on a bunch of Russians being there due to a military presence and Crimea happening to have better weather than much else around it.

Crimea belongs to Russia to the same extent Algeria belongs to France. Meaning not at all.

 

[The Heretic]

I don't give a f*** what a region was historically - either ethnically or politically. If a majority of the people want to secede (or whatever) from their tyrant overlords and live free in a democratic republic, they ought to be able to without fear of being invaded later.

 

[GWS]

It was mostly German, ethnically.

Crimea was owned by both Russia and the USSR, however it was relatively recent in history - there is no 'deeply historical' Russian claim to Crimea, it it now just opportunistic based on a bunch of Russians being there due to a military presence and Crimea happening to have better weather than much else around it.

Crimea belongs to Russia to the same extent Algeria belongs to France. Meaning not at all.

Germans made up 1/3 of the population of Sudetenland.
A significant number but not a majority.

 

[wired]

It was mostly German, ethnically.

Crimea was owned by both Russia and the USSR, however it was relatively recent in history - there is no 'deeply historical' Russian claim to Crimea, it it now just opportunistic based on a bunch of Russians being there due to a military presence and Crimea happening to have better weather than much else around it.

Crimea belongs to Russia to the same extent Algeria belongs to France. Meaning not at all.

Is Algiers composed of 90% French people . No. They might speak French but they are not ethnically French.

 

[wired]

I don't give a f*** what a region was historically - either ethnically or politically. If a majority of the people want to secede (or whatever) from their tyrant overlords and live free in a democratic republic, they ought to be able to without fear of being invaded later.

The majority of people in the Crimea wanted to cede to Russia.

 

[Member 52301]

The majority of people in the Crimea wanted to cede to Russia.

This is true and what I have read and heard over time.

Cate

 

[monkeybutler]

Germans made up 1/3 of the population of Sudetenland.
A significant number but not a majority.

Nope.

"Sudetenland, sections of northern and western Bohemia and northern Moravia, in the vicinity of the Sudeten mountain ranges. The Sudetenland, which had a predominately German population, was incorporated into Czechoslovakia when that new nation's frontiers were drawn in 1918–19. The Sudeten and other Germans in Czechoslovakia numbered about 3,000,000 in the interwar period. Because of its German majority, the Sudetenland later became a major source of contention between Germany and Czechoslovakia..."
https://www.britannica.com/place/Sudetenland

 

[monkeybutler]

Is Algiers composed of 90% French people . No. They might speak French but they are not ethnically French.

Not the point.

Russians are 20th century squatters and occupiers in Ukraine.

 

[wired]

Not the point.

Russians are 20th century squatters and occupiers in Ukraine.

How are they squatters? They took it by force. Time honored method. We did a little of that ourselves.

 

[monkeybutler]

They took it by force. Time honored method.

Well, that certainly legitimizes the claim.

 

[wired]

Well, that certainly legitimizes the claim.

Give back West Virginia to Virginia.