Remember when Cheaper Than Dirt (CTD) charged high prices for PMAGS in 2012?

[Member 34319]

palmetto state armory is raising their prices also

On average I've eeen their uppers and complete rifles go up about $20. Not tremendous if you ask me.

This stuff from CTD is dumb.

I hope they fail.

 

[308]

Pure unadulterated capitalism can be called another name = greed. Ethics matter.

Like the guy selling his rare MAK90 with the TapcoCrapco upgrades for only $1150

 

[American123]

There's a significant difference between price increases simply due to supply & demand, and blatant price gouging as in CTD.

True, but at the same time, that is their (company) property, they can choose to ask for whatever price they want. Capitalism solves this problem very easily, they don't have a monopoly on mags, people who are not willing to pay that much will shop elsewhere, but if everywhere else is sold out, a few might decide it is worth it to pay that price to have it, again, personal choice of the buyer.

Being able to choose not to shop somewhere because they don't have the best price/service is a inherent benefit of capitalism, also being able to ask a price for your tangible goods or services for whatever amount you want is another facet of being a free people, but again, buyers still have choices and the freedom to make those choices and buy or not buy.

Anything else is Marxist in nature, for example controlling the owner's freedom to sell their property for "approved" prices.

Rather than get bent out of shape of a company offering to sell a product, shop elsewhere. Ain't capitalism great!

 

[American123]

Pure unadulterated capitalism can be called another name = greed. Ethics matter.

It's their property... this is the equivalent of someone selling a AR during the height of a gun buying panic to a person who really wants one. Both the buyer and seller agree to the price that is heavily inflated compared to non-panic buying times.

You might call it greed, but it sounds more like envy from a consumers perspective, because if I could sell my Pmags for $100 a piece, I'd sell 100 of them right now and not bat an eye about it because someone else buying them felt it was worth it to pay that price and I would happily run the risk of society imploding and money not being worth anything, but wait for a couple years for mag prices to fall back down to about $8-$10 and restock. Once again though, both the buyer and seller would CHOOSE to accept those risks and pay/sell accordingly at an agreed upon price.

 

[LTRGUY261]

I hadn't experienced that, and purchased from them as recently as yesterday. $104.00 for 500 rds of Winchester 9mm. $282.00 today for the same.
Seems unlikely I'll purchase from them again, unless there's a price that can't be matched or a product I can't find anywhere else.

I bought what I assume is the same plastic ammo can of 500 Winchester 9mm FMJs at my local BiMart for $89 last week. CTD should deal with much more quantity than BiMart so should be able to sell at the same price or cheaper and turn a profit.

 

[User 1234]

So is it Marxist to believe that ethics matter and that Christian principles such as refraining from "winner take all" practices are a good idea? Is all greed perfectly acceptable because it is allowed by the market? If a factory owner finds that 10 year olds are willing to work cheap and pays them for their labor, why should we interfere? Or is there some reason other than the quest for ultimate and maximum profit that we don't allow that market-based workforce?

A company in the 2A industry tripling the price of ammunition clearly isn't concerned with gun owners' interests, and instead is trying to squeeze every last penny out of gun owners. Nobody is "Marxist" or saying CTD should redistribute their corporate earnings according to popular vote (although that is what some taxes are).

 

[American123]

I bought what I assume is the same plastic ammo can of 500 Winchester 9mm FMJs at my local BiMart for $89 last week. CTD should deal with much more quantity than BiMart so should be able to sell at the same price or cheaper and turn a profit.

If people are buying them at that price, why would they sell them cheaper? Do you understand that businesses are in business to in fact make money? Isn't that why people go to work? I'm 100% confident every person on this forum could take a 5% pay cut and still survive, but would we want to?

For the record, I haven't bought anything from CTD in 10 years, but I still respect their right as a business to conduct business.

 

[MannyGlocks]

A123,

Short term greed ends up with long time resentment of a huge number of customers.

That's Capitalism too.

ctd will never see my business due to their last price gouging.

 

[308]

A123,

Short term greed ends up with long time resentment of a huge number of customers.

That's Capitalism too.

ctd will never see my business due to their last price gouging.

CTD lost me as a customer many years ago because of their gouging...like others have done here in the classifieds and I assume will be doing so again shortly. Like the hand sanitizer douche from yesterday. I wish them all good luck in their endeavors though...plenty of soup line buyers out there to take advantage of.

 

[LTRGUY261]

If people are buying them at that price, why would they sell them cheaper? Do you understand that businesses are in business to in fact make money? Isn't that why people go to work? I'm 100% confident every person on this forum could take a 5% pay cut and still survive, but would we want to?

For the record, I haven't bought anything from CTD in 10 years, but I still respect their right as a business to conduct business.

I 100% understand why businesses are in business. I also agree it is their right to sell their products for whatever they want and I also do not shop with them, like yourself. It is just frustrating to see one of the few larger online gun stores doing whatever they can for a buck.

Most Americans want to make as much money as they can, however a great deal of us are not willing to take advantage of others for a little bit of extra money.

I feel like CTD is actually breaking the law by participating in price gouging, as a lot of states have laws against it. I am just unsure how or if it could be prosecuted if the state they are located in doesn't have laws against it. Oregon as an example would not call this illegal since the stuff CTD sells doesn't meet the states definition of an essential consumer good.

 

[Camelfilter]

If people are buying them at that price, why would they sell them cheaper? Do you understand that businesses are in business to in fact make money? Isn't that why people go to work? I'm 100% confident every person on this forum could take a 5% pay cut and still survive, but would we want to?

For the record, I haven't bought anything from CTD in 10 years, but I still respect their right as a business to conduct business.

Absolutely not saying price fixing, just saying that price goes hand in hand with demand.

It's unscrupulous to jump well far and above this pricing, ahead of said standard curve. Also to simply hold back inventory to charge some crazy unscrupulous amount.

Agreed, it is there business to do as they wish. And I'm free to voice my opinion on wether they are unsavory, or not.

Reputation in business is a pretty darned big deal.

 

[American123]

So is it Marxist to believe that ethics matter and that Christian principles such as refraining from "winner take all" practices are a good idea? Is all greed perfectly acceptable because it is allowed by the market? If a factory owner finds that 10 year olds are willing to work cheap and pays them for their labor, why should we interfere? Or is there some reason other than the quest for ultimate and maximum profit that we don't allow that market-based workforce?

A company in the 2A industry tripling the price of ammunition clearly isn't concerned with gun owners' interests, and instead is trying to squeeze every last penny out of gun owners. Nobody is "Marxist" or saying CTD should redistribute their corporate earnings according to popular vote (although that is what some taxes are).

Lot's of different points brought up, lot's of different areas for discussion that would lead to a lot longer continued debate beyond the topic of magazine prices, personal property rights, and freedom of seller and buyer to choose. For example, the labor force and child labor laws have nothing to do with current topic of magazine prices fluctuating depending on market willingness to buy. (sidestep)

Getting back to the mags: NOBODY IS FORCING ANYBODY TO BUY ANYTHING. Demand drives prices, if nobody was buying ammo / guns / mags, at current price points all those prices would fall to the point that consumers buys them (at least while the company is still making a profit), because if consumer demand truly dries up the business obviously has no ability to sell them at a profit anyway because consumers wouldn't buy them at all. It doesn't matter if CTD tries to sell 1 .22lr round for $100, or a pmag for $1000. Consumers with their endless shopping options will dictate whether that is a viable price the consumer market will bear.

When pmag prices were in the dirt and deals for $8 a piece were common just within the last two years, nobody was complaining then, but now that prices are going up (due to consumer demand) people are whining, it's economics 101.

I will address the point of ethics though I will also sidestep debating Christian values because despite my personal religious beliefs, religion generally has nothing to do with economics. It seems like you are saying it is unethical for CTD to ask an amount you have deemed "unreasonable" for pmags. I don't perceive ethics has anything to do with this because we are not talking about something people need to live, we are talking about a magazine. When CTD has a monopoly on bread and jacks the price up, then we can grab our torches and pitchforks together

 

[CountryGent]

Free market at work: they charged stupidly high prices for their goods and shipping and I stopped buying from them many, many years ago. Other vendors who didn't make the same business decision they did got my money instead. Obviously other buyers didn't feel the same way because CTD is still in business. (shrug) Whatever.

 

[American123]

Absolutely not saying price fixing, just saying that price goes hand in hand with demand.

It's unscrupulous to jump well far and above this pricing, ahead of said standard curve. Also to simply hold back inventory to charge some crazy unscrupulous amount.

Agreed, it is there business to do as they wish. And I'm free to voice my opinion on wether they are unsavory, or not.

Reputation in business is a pretty darned big deal.

Agreed that reputation in business is important, very important, but obviously CTD is willing to run that risk for the opportunity to turn significant profit on these items. I look at it from the perspective of them doing this will actually help out other businesses and consumers in the long term. Many customers will go to that website, see how outrageous the price is, and scour the internet or local brick and mortar for better priced items. It will be a overall net gain for the consumers over the long term and other companies because a larger % of the consumer base will be more knowledgeable of where to shop in the future and not go straight to CTD for what they want.

Some customers will buy from CTD at those prices and then when prices take a plunge when things calm down, they will regret panic buying. I don't see this as bad either, being stupid often can be unpleasant and expensive, it makes people aspire to get smarter.

 

[American123]

I 100% understand why businesses are in business. I also agree it is their right to sell their products for whatever they want and I also do not shop with them, like yourself. It is just frustrating to see one of the few larger online gun stores doing whatever they can for a buck.

Most Americans want to make as much money as they can, however a great deal of us are not willing to take advantage of others for a little bit of extra money.

I feel like CTD is actually breaking the law by participating in price gouging, as a lot of states have laws against it. I am just unsure how or if it could be prosecuted if the state they are located in doesn't have laws against it. Oregon as an example would not call this illegal since the stuff CTD sells doesn't meet the states definition of an essential consumer good.

In any scenario, even if CTD sold bread and milk. I still wouldn't mind if they jacked their price up to $1000 a loaf and gallon. Since we have a capitalist society, there are a lot of bread and milk sellers and producers, they would go broke as a business having to pay operating costs while consumers bought elsewhere, or they would have to lower prices to the point consumers bought from them again because they were't substantially more priced than the competition. If there was a monopoly on bread and milk and CTD did that, different story entirely.

 

[osprey]

Ctd? Sounds like some kind of venereal disease. No thank you!

 

[Jonnyuma]

Okay... enough with the lessons on free market economics and capitalism. No kidding, we ALL KNOW THAT.


What CTD was to cancel standing orders for items then restock those items in order to resell them at higher prices when the demand was artificially inflated. Legal? Yeah, I guess so. Free market? Absolutely not because it was effected by artificial stimuli in the form of domestic politics. And it wasn't ethical... at all

They did what they did and many of us choose not to do business with them. Nobody is looking to the government to impose price controls CTD... that's a ridiculous straw man.

 

[User 1234]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. They can charge their obscene price, and we can spread the word and choose not to do business with them to help discourage greed.

Contrast CTD's practices with LaRue. LaRue has chosen to side with gun owners even if it lowers his revenue. He won't sell any products to government agencies that it wouldn't be legal to sell to civilians in that agency's jurisdiction. The 2A industry and gun owners are under attack from anti-gun activists who want to trade our liberties for their false sense of security and we need to care about each other to ensure our next generation can exercise its 2A right to self defense too. Gouging each other for a (many extra) buck should be criticized early and often.

 

[American123]

Okay... enough with the lessons on free market economics and capitalism. No kidding, we ALL KNOW THAT.


What CTD was to cancel standing orders for items then restock those items in order to resell them at higher prices when the demand was artificially inflated. Legal? Yeah, I guess so. Free market? Absolutely not because it was effected by artificial stimuli in the form of domestic politics. And it wasn't ethical... at all

They did what they did and many of us choose not to do business with them. Nobody is looking to the government to impose price controls CTD... that's a ridiculous straw man.

Do we though? Complaining about economics 101 doesn't signify a great understanding of free market economics and capitalism because it's like acknowledging water is wet.

I went to Franz bakery outlet several weeks ago and bought bread at about a 80% price reduction compared to the same bread that I could have bought at Safeway. Should I be mad at Safeway for selling bread a lot higher than the bakery outlet does? or should I just go shop where I am willing to spend my money how I see best fit where I know I can get a better value for my money.

Regarding cancelling orders. I wouldn't appreciate it if a company cancelled my order, but at the same time, if they refunded the money, then it goes into the category of TS because they kept their property and I kept my money.

It makes no difference to me if no one shops at CTD, I don't bother looking at their site at all because I know I can likely get it a better deal elsewhere, but complaining about how they conduct their business is just silly when there are hundreds (or more) of other online retailers to shop at and however many brick and mortar stores throughout the country.

 

[CountryGent]

I find it odd those belaboring the point they engaged in unethical practices. They certainly did, but all kinds of companies engage in sleazy actions. More often than not word gets out pretty fast and their brand is rightly hurt in the marketplace. It happened to CTD and it will to others who opt to go the dirtbag route. Personally, I haven't patronized them in years, nor really understand why anyone would care at this juncture.