Reloading Math - yup its way lower cost

[leadcounsel]

Geezuz man. Do you do anything for recreation? How does that pencil out? If a person really wants to save money, just work/sleep and eat nothing but Campbell's Condensed Soup. There's some real savings there! Reloading is entertainment. I get a kick looking at that ammo on the shelf and thinking that I don't need to buy that. That right there is what makes it worth it to ME. You don't wanna' load? Don't load. It's that simple. Coming on a reloading sub-forum, of a large firearms discussion forum, and yapping like we're all fools for loading our own ammo just seems silly.

As I wrote above, yes, I gave examples of my hobbies like snow boarding.

I could ask you "geezuz man, do you understand this is an economic argument?" It's not about "entertainment," or "getting a kick..." OP's point was all the money savings.

These threads always go the same way. "I saved a bazillion dollars reloading." A pure economic argument. I roll in, point out the false economies.

Then reloaders get emotional, make personal attacks, blast me for not understanding their joys from reloading, and on and on and on... failing to make sound economic arguments. And the economic arguments are hit and miss but generally a fail when OTHER economic opportunity costs are considered. (i.e. if you are justifying your HOBBY to make/save money, it's still a false economy as I pointed out above).

Again, if it's so valuable, turn it into a business making $400 per hour. I doubt anyone could actually earn $25 an hour reloading for a business without cutting corners and still churn out their magical ammunition that never kabooms and is always more accurate by a wide margin ... because the "savings" and "profits" are just not there as so many claim. The few professional reloading companies are known to use cheap components to make it work, like dirty powder.

When I start posting threads about how much money I saved by going jogging or snowboarding, then you can mock my economic arguments (which would actually be more sound than making money sitting at a reloading bench all day).

 

[deadeye]

As I wrote above, yes, I gave examples of my hobbies like snow boarding.

I could ask you "geezuz man, do you understand this is an economic argument?" It's not about "entertainment," or "getting a kick..." OP's point was all the money savings.

These threads always go the same way. "I saved a bazillion dollars reloading." A pure economic argument. I roll in, point out the false economies.

Then reloaders get emotional, make personal attacks, blast me for not understanding their joys from reloading, and on and on and on... failing to make sound economic arguments. And the economic arguments are hit and miss but generally a fail when OTHER economic opportunity costs are considered. (i.e. if you are justifying your HOBBY to make/save money, it's still a false economy as I pointed out above).

Again, if it's so valuable, turn it into a business making $400 per hour. I doubt anyone could actually earn $25 an hour reloading for a business without cutting corners and still churn out their magical ammunition that never kabooms and is always more accurate by a wide margin ... because the "savings" and "profits" are just not there as so many claim. The few professional reloading companies are known to use cheap components to make it work, like dirty powder.

When I start posting threads about how much money I saved by going jogging or snowboarding, then you can mock my economic arguments (which would actually be more sound than making money sitting at a reloading bench all day).

Please go troll elsewhere! You don't want to reload fine MOVE ALONG.

 

[Esam85]

@Helocat I am curious as I do not reload but how long does it take to load 100 rounds?

 

[RVTECH]

I am curious as I do not reload but how long does it take to load 100 rounds?

Depends on the caliber of the round and the particular equipment being used and some other variables.

 

[Esam85]

Depends on the caliber of the round and the particular equipment being used.

I have thought about reloading as i have a 308 that likes a certain load. It has a 95 palma match chamber.

 

[leadcounsel]

@Helocat I am curious as I do not reload but how long does it take to load 100 rounds?

After you invest 10s of hours buying equipment and setting up and learning curve, trials and errors (which reloaders never factor in their economic arguments) the honest reloader will tell you with high quality setup and no interruptions, factoring quality control checks, you can push out 600 rounds in an hour, at max reasonable and safe capacity speed. So 100 rounds probably about 15 minutes. With $1000 worth of equipment, and of course the costs of brass, primers, powder, and bullets.

The non-reloader can get 100 rounds in seconds online, or in 1 minute during a grocery trip at Walmart...

Which is economically better? You have to decide.

 

[Esam85]

After you invest 10s of hours buying equipment and setting up and learning curve, trials and errors (which reloaders never factor in their economic arguments) the honest reloader will tell you with high quality setup and no interruptions, factoring quality control checks, you can push out 600 rounds in an hour, at max reasonable and safe capacity speed. So 100 rounds probably about 15 minutes. With $1000 worth of equipment, and of course the costs of brass, primers, powder, and bullets.

The non-reloader can get 100 rounds in seconds online, or in 1 minute during a grocery trip at Walmart...

Which is economically better? You have to decide.

I dont care about the money but i do have 7000 into a rifle that shoots a specific round. Man you must really be a lawyer.

 

[RVTECH]

The non-reloader can get 100 rounds in seconds online,

And are they at the door in seconds?

or in 1 minute during a grocery trip at Walmart..

And what if Wall Mart doesn't have the 100 year old rounds one might need?

 

[leadcounsel]

And are they at the door in seconds?

And what if Wall Mart doesn't have the 100 year old rounds you might need?

And do you magically have 4 components, or do you also need to order yours. What an inane position.

Bet I can get 100 rounds or greater numbers brand new faster than you can reload that many. And the greater the number the more advantage I have.

Even greater advantage if you have to procure your 4 components versus me getting made ammo.

Or do you want the unfair advantage of going to your stocks of powers, primers, shells, and bullets? I'll still be faster but if you want a fair test, let's see who can procure all new everything and see who can do it faster for ANY quantity of new ready to fire ammo.

 

[RVTECH]

And the greater the number the more advantage I have.

Advantage for what ?

 

[RVTECH]

see who can procure all new everything and see who can do it faster for ANY quantity of new ready to fire ammo.

I don't need to 'procure' anything.
I have stocks of components beyond your wildest dreams.
This also includes prepped & primed brass in many calibers.

Do you think experienced reloaders just sit with empty shelves until they need something?

I could have 500 rounds of various calibers by zero dark thirty tomorrow morning if I needed.

 

[bobdog308]

I'll take a Handload any day of the week...factory ammo IS for city slickers who shoot at ranges where they pay membership dues.

 

[RVTECH]

I'll take a Handload any day of the week...factory ammo IS for city slickers who shoot at ranges where they pay membership dues.

I agree - and dang man I got LAMBASTED on another forum the other day because I was posting about my shooting 'range'- some 'city slickers' on the forum got a little 'jealous' and made their feelings known to me....

 

[etrain16]

I don't reload to save money, at least not at this point. I invested in equipment so I could learn more about shooting, be responsible for my own quality control, work to improve accuracy and maybe, some day, for some calibers, save some money. If I were a high-volume shooter, I'd probably stand to save some $$, but at this point, I'm not. And I would like to consider some competition shooting down the road, and all I've heard from folks that shoot competition, you load your own if you want to be a serious competitor.

I just loaded my first rifle rounds - 100 rounds of .308, 50 rounds of subsonic (for the suppressor) and 50 rounds of super-sonic. Learning curve wasn't bad after having loaded pistol rounds. Looking forward to how the hand loads perform.

 

[RVTECH]

I just loaded my first rifle rounds - 100 rounds of .308, 50 rounds of subsonic (for the suppressor) and 50 rounds of super-sonic. Learning curve wasn't bad after having loaded pistol rounds. Looking forward to how the hand loads perform.

This is what its all about!
Make sure to post a range report when you shoot them.

 

[bobdog308]

Your rAnge looks like my backyard! I like it!

 

[Capn Jack]

How else could I shoot my .458 SoCom for .35 cents a round?
Some day I'll run out of old SCUBA diving weights, but the wife says I'm too old to be diving anyway.

 

[Helocat]

As I wrote above, yes, I gave examples of my hobbies like snow boarding.

I could ask you "geezuz man, do you understand this is an economic argument?" It's not about "entertainment," or "getting a kick..." OP's point was all the money savings.

These threads always go the same way. "I saved a bazillion dollars reloading." A pure economic argument. I roll in, point out the false economies.

Then reloaders get emotional, make personal attacks, blast me for not understanding their joys from reloading, and on and on and on... failing to make sound economic arguments. And the economic arguments are hit and miss but generally a fail when OTHER economic opportunity costs are considered. (i.e. if you are justifying your HOBBY to make/save money, it's still a false economy as I pointed out above).

Again, if it's so valuable, turn it into a business making $400 per hour. I doubt anyone could actually earn $25 an hour reloading for a business without cutting corners and still churn out their magical ammunition that never kabooms and is always more accurate by a wide margin ... because the "savings" and "profits" are just not there as so many claim. The few professional reloading companies are known to use cheap components to make it work, like dirty powder.

When I start posting threads about how much money I saved by going jogging or snowboarding, then you can mock my economic arguments (which would actually be more sound than making money sitting at a reloading bench all day).

OP here. I truly appreciate your "I'm going to argue this on the internet even with no practical experience on the actual topic". I have shared the math, error on the safe side. The numbers are solid, so "yup its way lower cost". You claim to roll in, point out the false economies. Time to roll out on this one as the math has proved your incorrect.

Depends on the caliber of the round and the particular equipment being used and some other variables.

Exactly

I have thought about reloading as i have a 308 that likes a certain load. It has a 95 palma match chamber.

Most of us reloading bottleneck cases shot from bolt gun, are not going to go for pure speed but pure accuracy. Me personally loading my .308 for my F class (always learning) bolts, 100 rounds are about 2hrs as I do them on two different presses. I use the case feeder on my Dillon 1050 to deprime, resize, prime and trim. Then go to my Dillon 550B as a simi progressive. I seat and crimp on this press with each load individually thrown on two RCBS ChargeMaster Lite digital scales.

After you invest 10s of hours buying equipment and setting up and learning curve, trials and errors (which reloaders never factor in their economic arguments) the honest reloader will tell you with high quality setup and no interruptions, factoring quality control checks, you can push out 600 rounds in an hour, at max reasonable and safe capacity speed. So 100 rounds probably about 15 minutes. With $1000 worth of equipment, and of course the costs of brass, primers, powder, and bullets.

The non-reloader can get 100 rounds in seconds online, or in 1 minute during a grocery trip at Walmart...

Which is economically better? You have to decide.

Over 30yrs of reloading. My Dillon 1050, case feeder and Mr. Bullet Feeder easily push out high quality 900-1000 rounds of 9mm per hour. leadcounsel is clearly out of is the knowledge base to make a response with experienced reloading knowledge. As the first response should have been exactly what clearly experienced and reloading educated RVTECH said Depends on the caliber of the round and the particular equipment being used and some other variables.

Internet keyboard experts willing to provide advice regardless of having actual experience, priceless.

As for
The non-reloader can get 100 rounds in seconds online, or in 1 minute during a grocery trip at Walmart...

Love this. Still looking for that website that delivers in seconds after purchase, I am reloading those same 100 rounds 3rd time by the time your web purchase arrives.

Yes Walmart has never let anyone down and always has 100's of rounds available on any of those 1-minute grocery trips. You're at the mercy of supply for finished ammunition.

And do you magically have 4 components, or do you also need to order yours. What an inane position.

Bet I can get 100 rounds or greater numbers brand new faster than you can reload that many. And the greater the number the more advantage I have.

Even greater advantage if you have to procure your 4 components versus me getting made ammo.

Or do you want the unfair advantage of going to your stocks of powers, primers, shells, and bullets? I'll still be faster but if you want a fair test, let's see who can procure all new everything and see who can do it faster for ANY quantity of new ready to fire ammo.

Challenge accepted. I can manufacture 100 rounds of either of the calibers used in this post before you can travel to and from a known supply of the same caliber. You would have to live above your Walmart to beat the less than 15 min it will take me to make 100 rounds of either (again calibers in the OP). AND they will cost less and shoot better. However, I understand your attempt at a point. Yes having a box dropped off with $1000 in value from Powder Valley full of components to make 9375 rounds vs $1000 in value from Idontloadmyownstuffandyourallwrong.com with 6258 rounds of the same caliber. (too bad you end up with 33% less to shoot) Your order of pre-loaded ammo will be ready to shoot the moment you open the box. This holds water if everyone only orders what they need at the last minute. Otherwise, most including non-reloaders are ordering well in advance, at least ones that plan ahead. Most just have pre-loaded on the shelf and/or components. Personly I have both.

When I start posting threads about how much money I saved by going jogging or snowboarding, then you can mock my economic arguments (which would actually be more sound than making money sitting at a reloading bench all day).

Will never happen.
#1 as I am not on any jogging or snowboarding message boards. (however, personally, I do both along with cycling)
#2 Don't care. Mainly due to #3 and #1
#3 was not born between 1981 and 1996 (not a Millennial)

 

[Helocat]

@leadcounsel it has been fun arguing this with you. Your 100% entitled to your opinion. The main point of this post was to share that for me, there is economic gain alongside the fun I have reloading.

You keep buying your ammo and I will keep manufacturing and remanufacturing mine as long as both of us can purchase the supplies we need to support our shooting needs.

Reload or not reload, whatever. As long as we all get out shoot and educate others on the value of shooting sports.

 

[leadcounsel]

I don't need to 'procure' anything.
I have stocks of components beyond your wildest dreams.
This also includes prepped & primed brass in many calibers.

Do you think experienced reloaders just sit with empty shelves until they need something?

I could have 500 rounds of various calibers by zero dark thirty tomorrow morning if I needed.

Well, if we're solely going to inventory on hand, I probably have ya beat. I have well in excess (i.e. many many many times) 500 rounds loaded ammo for all my guns in the next room. I can produce them in the time it takes me to walk across my house.

So which is it?

You apparently want me to have to go procure things, but you don't have to go procure things? Makes no sense.

You need to procure and have 5 components, including time. I need to procure 1. I've rarely been in any location unable to procure nearly unlimited amounts of ammunition within an hour, and certainly not somewhere where someone might have all his reloading gear and components (i.e. you're not going on a hunting trip to Alaska or a vacation to the Badlands with your Dillion 650 and components. So if we went hunting or on a trip, and we forgot our ammo, we're equally screwed.).

And before I exit this conversation you are either counting your time, or not. If you're not counting your time, neither will I. All of the ammo I've ever bought was FREE because I enjoyed the time I spent earning the money. So your "reloading is less expensive" is once again a false economy. My ammo was all FREE.