Reloading Math - yup its way lower cost

[American123]

Well, if we're solely going to inventory on hand, I probably have ya beat. I have well in excess (i.e. many many many times) 500 rounds loaded ammo for all my guns in the next room. I can produce them in the time it takes me to walk across my house.

So which is it?

You apparently want me to have to go procure things, but you don't have to go procure things? Makes no sense.

You need to procure and have 5 components, including time. I need to procure 1. I've rarely been in any location unable to procure nearly unlimited amounts of ammunition within an hour, and certainly not somewhere where someone might have all his reloading gear and components (i.e. you're not going on a hunting trip to Alaska or a vacation to the Badlands with your Dillion 650 and components. So if we went hunting or on a trip, and we forgot our ammo, we're equally screwed.).

And before I exit this conversation you are either counting your time, or not. If you're not counting your time, neither will I. All of the ammo I've ever bought was FREE because I enjoyed the time I spent earning the money. So your "reloading is less expensive" is once again a false economy. My ammo was all FREE.

Seem rather aggressive over the topic of reloading. Kinda funny.

Talking about the economy of reloading there are lots of factors, but some hard line facts to acknowledge.

#1 for most people if they aren't working, they aren't making money

#2 for most people the time they spend reloading they would not otherwise be working

#3 therefore recreational time spent reloading does have potential savings compared to buying all factory ammo and doing something else with the time, for some people it would be watch tv, so the loss of free time to reloading isn't a major issue.

How much savings? It greatly depends on the cartridge being reloaded. Since at the moment you can get 9mm for about $0.16 loading fmj 9mm is hardly worth it, but hollow point loads that normally would cost $1 a piece, it makes it worth it rather quickly, especially on a Dillon 550 doing 100 in 30 minutes.

Bottle neck cartridges or big bore, the savings grow rather quickly. Considering how expensive good hunting .308 can be more than $1 a round, and you can reload it for about $0.50 - $0.60

I think when I first started reloading, 10mm was my first cartridge I reloaded and doing so made shooting 10mm more cost effective compared to paying $30 for a box of 50. After I moved on from the single stage RCBS to the Dillon, reloading became a far less time consuming affair because I was accomplishing 4 tasks simultaneously instead of 1 at a time.

Much of what people acquire (in theory) will be passed down to children who developed the passion, how it started for me. After getting the Dillon through an estate sale, the $400 price tag isn't cheap, but for example after the first 400 - 500 .308 it had already paid for itself.

Reloading isn't for everyone, and it takes care and dedication. For those who have to start from scratch their is some up front set up costs, but at the end of the day, unless a person is avoiding work to reload, or missing out on significant life events to reload, reloading is a hobby that can make it more cost effective to enjoy shooting.

Some people who have little time outside of work to enjoy life and more money would likely see reloading as wasted time and effort. I can understand how those people would never be attracted to the idea of reloading.

 

[PNWguy]

Again, if it's so valuable, turn it into a business making $400 per hour. I doubt anyone could actually earn $25 an hour reloading for a business without cutting corners and still churn out their magical ammunition that never kabooms and is always more accurate by a wide margin ... because the "savings" and "profits" are just not there as so many claim. The few professional reloading companies are known to use cheap components to make it work, like dirty powder.

Not exactly reloading, but close to it...

My dad is a subcontractor for specialty ammo and bullet company. He casts lead bullets in his shop for $.22 a bullet. He gets in an order for 1000 to 6000 bullets of a particular weight or style. If he doesn't have the molds, then the company sends him one.

He sits at his casting bench for hours a day and at 83yrs old, can crank out roughly 250 bullets an hour. But then he also has to size and lube them, and package and ship them.

Last year he said he cranked out around 40k bullets with his wife helping. I come over and will cast when he gets tired of it. He pays me $.10 a bullet and I make about $20 an hour running the molds.

He's a former business owner and pretty shrewd, so if he thinks it's worth the time and hassle after paying for lead and lube, then I believe him.

I know not exactly reloading, but it is a key component of it and he is just a regular guy with two lead pots, a work bench, and a bar stool.

As far as regular reloading, I don't dispute your premise due to all of the factors and variables involved that non-business folks don't take into account.

 

[RVTECH]

This naysayer to reloading also seems to avoid accepting three major reasons for reloading - rare, expensive or otherwise unavailable factory ammo, specialized loadings for common ammo that are NOT made by the manufacturers and the need to custom load ammo for certain guns to tailor a load specifically for them to achieve maximum accuracy. The two examples I gave previously were for certain single shot rifles intended for competition.

 

[Capn Jack]

And, "The Beat Goes On"....

Isn't it really, whatever turns your crank, fills a need, or peaks your curiosity?

 

[leadcounsel]

This naysayer to reloading also seems to avoid accepting three major reasons for reloading - rare, expensive or otherwise unavailable factory ammo, specialized loadings for common ammo that are NOT made by the manufacturers and the need to custom load ammo for certain guns to tailor a load specifically for them to achieve maximum accuracy. The two examples I gave previously were for certain single shot rifles intended for competition.

Gotta agree that if you're reloading obsolete unavailable calibers it is an almost requirement.

My solution is to shoot more economical and readily available calibers. Many ways to skin a cat.

 

[RVTECH]

My solution is to shoot more economical and readily available calibers.

Thats good its YOUR solution however there is a large contingent of gun owners who prefer the historical, classic or rare firearms and for them reloading might be the only option for ammo.

Also don't overlook another thing I said about alternative or reduced loads in common calibers that cannot be had unless by reloading. See the ammo below? Recognize it? Well its pretty common but essentially only three loads are commercially available for it - 125, 150 and 170 grain.

These are loaded with lighter bullets (110 gr) and a reduced charge of pistol powder as plinking ammo as well as for vintage rifles that use this caliber.
This load is not available commercially and can only be had by reloading.

 

[leadcounsel]

Okay, that's all fine. And I've conceded that rare, oddball, wildcat or similar tailored rounds may require reloading. Seems like a niche portion of the topic at hand.

As for downloading cartridges, sure. I can see that particularly if you want to dial back the stress on an irreplaceable gun. I know that pistol competitors like to play that trick to dial back their ammo loads to reduce recoil and shave off fractions of a second (and which if caught being extreme they are DQ'd).

But I stand by my main premise that generally speaking, and not some niche reload situation, the ECONOMIC justification is rarely there if someone has the ability to earn a good wage.

Again, so as to not ruffle the feathers of reloaders, I have no objection to reloading. I actually have a stack of reloading books and manuals, and other stuff. It's interesting. If it gives you pleasure, joy, something fun to do, etc. then have at it. I choose to not reload because my work is sedentary enough, and then there's the internet, and I don't want to add to that sedentariness and be tied to a manual labor press for hours making bullets. See my comments on heart disease, diabetes, strokes, etc. above... I want to spend my idle time doing activities, not pulling a lever....

 

[Mike7b]

I'm glad not everyone reloads, I like it when I go to a range and there's piles of brass lying around, especially if it's 44 mag or 45 colt. I make bullet traps so I recycle about 95 percent of my lead bullets. With the bullets taken care of, and my brass has been bought and paid for years ago, my only cost is powder an primers. I'm on my feet 11 or 12 hours a day, usually 6 days a week during the season, so when I do find some time to reload, I find it very relaxing.

 

[tac]

Anybody here shoot Swiss?

This is the last six shots @100m from my 1944 K31 last Saturday morning. Scope was set on x4, in accordance with the x4 maximum of the veteran service rifle shoot we were practicing for.


I came third, but I was only beaten by two better shooters. - and a point each. This was the 'shoot what you got left' target, hence the lack of anything else on it.

For anybody interested, here is the load - use it at your own risk -

168gr WMK
42gr Vihtavuori N150
CCI 200 LRP
Lapua brass - loaded 6 times.

Here's the old piece, bought in 1989 from a well-known military gun store somewhere in Yoorup for $79.95, and the scope, from a well-known gun store in Gold Beach for $25.



No-drill clamp on mount from Swiss Products, Kallispel MT, and rings from Warne in Tualatin OR. Keeping it local, right?

 

[DizzyJ]

9mm hardly even worth it if it's fmj.

41 magnum? Hell yeah! That's the first caliber I believe I loaded for. Back then, $50 a box. This was 30 ish years ago.

I've probably ran well over 2,000 rounds of that caliber alone.

 

[lucky guy]

Used equipment offsets a lot of the equipment cost, go to your local gun shop to gear up.

 

[Helocat]

Used equipment offsets a lot of the equipment cost, go to your local gun shop to gear up.

Used gear helps lower the entry cost for most and a great way to get started.

Quality main brand gear will also hold its value. The last Dillon 550B I sold, sold for $40 less than I paid for it new. Think it worked out something like 15 cents per month actual cost to own it.

My RCBS Rockchucker II sold for more than I bought it for by the time I sold it back in the 90's. Yes there is deprecation of a $ over the years but that's dilling down a bit crazy over a few cents per month overall.

 

[RVTECH]

And it seems there is more used equipment for sale right now than ever - and some of it unused.
I think some bought up equipment planning on 'eventualities' that never came, and have no plans on using it now.

 

[Helocat]

I'm glad not everyone reloads, I like it when I go to a range and there's piles of brass lying around, especially if it's 44 mag or 45 colt. I make bullet traps so I recycle about 95 percent of my lead bullets. With the bullets taken care of, and my brass has been bought and paid for years ago, my only cost is powder an primers. I'm on my feet 11 or 12 hours a day, usually 6 days a week during the season, so when I do find some time to reload, I find it very relaxing.

I know its like range Jackpot! I almost always come home with more brass than I left with. My boys and I can play range chicken rather quick.

Last year in Dundee, I got to the range just after a big cop training shoot. It looked like yellow snow, had to be over 10k in 9mm Speer Lawman +P brass on the ground. It was so thick you could pick it up like harvesting strawberries, clearly seeing the row you were "picking" zig-zagging back and forth. Love this brass, loads great with my Subs. I easily picked up over 5k of matching headstamp brass.

 

[Helocat]

And it seems there is more used equipment for sale right now than ever - and some of it unused.
I think some bought up equipment planning on 'eventualities' that never came, and have no plans on using it now.

With ammo availability and prices all in the plus columns, for most its not a need. Always easier to just pull it off the shelf. Once ammo starts to go hard to get and prices climb again, reloading gear suddenly starts getting snatched up.

Those of us reloading just need to keep an eye on those hard to get components. Last go around it was primers for me. Will not happen again for me. Laying in 50cal cans full of them these days. CCI400, 450 and 500 stockpiles going down for me. Projectiles are next but if it ever gets crazy I will pick up lead casting gear and start casting.

 

[RVTECH]

had to be over 10k in 9mm Speer Lawman +P brass on the ground.

Thats a BUNCH!
I have never seen that much on the ground - but then I don't use a range.
I'll sometimes come upon a few hundred at a couple popular shooting areas close to where I live but thats about it.

 

[RVTECH]

Once ammo starts to go hard to get and prices climb again, reloading gear suddenly starts getting snatched up.

Panic is a poor reason to start reloading. I kind of puts one behind the curve.
If you believe something is going to happen you should already be reloading.
Sort of like prepping.

 

[Helocat]

Panic is a poor reason to start reloading. I kind of puts one behind the curve.
If you believe something is going to happen you should already be reloading.
Sort of like prepping.

Agreed. Personally reloading is just an extension of shooting. 30yrs ago I used to reload with a press bolted to a plywood plank C-clamped to my dorm room desk at OSU. No $, no room, no fancy anything. Just a box with my basic gear in it. I started just to learn how to do it. But eventually, it was the only way I could afford to shoot every week.

Full on prepping. Not just for SHTF but just Ammo going MIA on the store shelves (again), its the guys reloading that keep shooting longer, especially anything nonmainstream.

One of the reasons I love 300blk it's a great round to shoot, but its 100% easy to produce using mainstream components. 7.62 projectile w/ 5.56 brass, powder and primer.

 

[turbo_vanner]

y'all are a hoot. I started buying equipment and components a year ago, and have been loading everything I shoot since then. I'm shooting close to the same amounts, but I have spent a lot less in components and tools than I did the year before that, just in ammo. I literally checked my bank statements.

As far as I know, I'm also still doing all the hobbies and afterwork activities I did before I started, my time has not been compromised. I've maybe watched a bit less TV, oh no. Now its dirt cheap, fun, and I just laugh at folks who can't comprehend why it's cheaper for me.

 

[damon32382]

I first got into reloading when shooting BPCR matches in Phoenix. You absolutely HAD to roll your own .45-70 rounds tuned to your rifle to be competitive. Plus, "factory" loaded black powder cartridges are around $2 each. Shooting 60 rounds each match can get very costly. Step up to the .45-90 or .45-100 and they are about double the cost.

Then I bought a .45 Colt and wanted to make my own "bear" loads using 300gr bullets I cast myself.

Then I got a 10mm. Enough said.

I still only have a Lee single-stage press and turning 100 spent cases into freshly reloaded custom ammo takes me about 2-3 hours of relaxing time listening to talk radio.

I recently built a .450 Bushmaster AR and reloading allows me great latitude in creating everything from plinking loads to loads worthy of carrying in Grizzly country.

I know this is an old post, but can you tell me what kind of projectiles you load for on 450 Bushmaster? I heard you can use 45acp 230gr.