Reloading Math - yup its way lower cost

[leadcounsel]

In response to the numerous zealous personal affronts and attacks above, I'll just state that reloaders math cracks me up and the math in this thread reinforces why I certainly won't and why nobody will buy or shoot other people's reloads. lol.

Reloaders: "It's way cheaper!!"
Me: Show me how.
Reloaders: Lots of non-economic or totally skewed math answers. Sure...

 

[Helocat]

My son has been bugging me to go pick up brass lately. Right now I'm working crazy long hours on an annual maintenance project, and for what I make in overtime I'd be nuts to turn down a minute of it. I told him after this is over I'll take him out there, see if there's any brass laying around.


Make that two components, for some of us. I have a steady source of free lead, when I want to take the time and work to get it. A couple 8-lb jugs of powder lasts forever when loading pistol rounds, I make my own bullets, pick up and reuse free brass. The weak link is primers, so if this shortage lasts more than another year or so, I'll start to worry.

Helocat, I wanted to say thanks again for meeting us at the range, and letting us shoot your guns. That was a lot of fun!

Your son will have a hayday up there. The 3rd pistal bay in is where I was, man a ton of range gold on the ground for him.

It was great meeting you and your son in person and rocking some hardware. Thanks for outshooting me by the way with my own guns!!! PSA: if CLT65 says freeze, freeze cuz I saw him put groups very tight with anything he picked up including a Desert Egale in 50AE!

As for Boo-lets, ya pouring lead is the back up plan for when that time comes. Lead is to be had in the right places and fortuently the PNW has a few solid options for large quantities when that time comes. For now for me, its all avalible commericaly but when that day comes, I am ready to start casting and powder coating.

 

[Helocat]

In response to the numerous zealous personal affronts and attacks above, I'll just state that reloaders math cracks me up and the math in this thread reinforces why I certainly won't and why nobody will buy or shoot other people's reloads. lol.

Reloaders: "It's way cheaper!!"
Me: Show me how.
Reloaders: Lots of non-economic or totally skewed math answers. Sure...

"zealous" = aka basic responce to previous affronts. Zippo personal, then again I am one w/o "many degrees". I just try's to gets bys.

What cracks me up is the failure to see reson and admit one was mistaken especialy when bountuful shelfs at Wallmarts are bare these days. This is why I as someone without many claimed degrees or MBA, yet hires and most importantly FIRES at times ones with such degrees, over well, poor performace usualy around comon sence, knows where yal' comming from. (Where in ones green earth did the conversaton turn to selling ones precious hand made precision loads!? No shortage of friends that know my matiulaus loading to shoot them. Heck debated about pulling the FFL licence to do so, but meh its a hobby that I just enjoy and I dont need to make $ from it. My loads are for my boys and I.)

Back to loading a few thousand .38 Special rounds. Becouse I can. Thinking .45ACP small primer next.....mmmm na lets go .45 ACP large primer. meh either way . Probably time to run some 5.56 62grn too. FEW good thing the Dillon case feader for the roll former showed up today, it can run 5.56 brass why the small primer press is knocking out .38 and I set up the large primer press for the .45 LP. No more sharing one of the two case feeders. #reloadingmathdonegoodly

 

[leadcounsel]

What cracks me up is the failure to see reson and admit one was mistaken especialy when bountuful shelfs at Wallmarts are bare these days.

When shelves were full for reloaders, shelves were also full at low prices for ammo buyers like me. Also, non-reloaders can also collect and sell brass for profit. Non-reloaders can also collect and sell lead at profit.

Where in ones green earth did the conversaton turn to selling ones precious hand made precision loads!? No shortage of friends that know my matiulaus loading to shoot them. Heck debated about pulling the FFL licence to do so, but meh its a hobby that I just enjoy and I dont need to make $ from it.

Um, this is an economics discussion right? While the practical use is the primary consideration, surely the economic value of an end product must be taken into consideration. The analogy would be akin to building your own house to live in it but doing it in such a way that it was of no economic value if you decided to sell - for instance if you got no permits and followed no codes, meaning the house had no value in the secondary market.

Then there's the liability angle (I wouldn't be letting anyone shoot my reloads - too much liability), for personal injury or damaged guns, since reloads have kabooms far more frequently than factory ammo... that's certainly a hidden cost I'd factor.

And considering my store bought ammo has basically doubled in the last 6 months, but a reloader put together 5 components and put the finished ammo in boxes and it has lost all value, that's a sizable difference in the equation. Say person A bought 50,000 rounds for a buck each last year and set them aside. Person B, the reloader, bougth $50,000 in components and spent a year making 50,000 rounds. Person A's "value" of his ammo doubled in 2020 and he's sitting on $100,000. He could sell 1/2 of his ammo and recoup all his costs. Person B turned 5 valuable components into objects of no economic value. Sure he can shoot them. But if we're honest, nobody else will likely be willing to buy them... so he turned $50,000 into $0.

 

[Helocat]

When shelves were full for reloaders, shelves were also full at low prices for ammo buyers like me. Also, non-reloaders can also collect and sell brass for profit. Non-reloaders can also collect and sell lead at profit.



Um, this is an economics discussion right? While the practical use is the primary consideration, surely the economic value of an end product must be taken into consideration. The analogy would be akin to building your own house to live in it but doing it in such a way that it was of no economic value if you decided to sell - for instance if you got no permits and followed no codes, meaning the house had no value in the secondary market.

Then there's the liability angle (I wouldn't be letting anyone shoot my reloads - too much liability), for personal injury or damaged guns, since reloads have kabooms far more frequently than factory ammo... that's certainly a hidden cost I'd factor.

And considering my store bought ammo has basically doubled in the last 6 months, but a reloader put together 5 components and put the finished ammo in boxes and it has lost all value, that's a sizable difference in the equation. Say person A bought 50,000 rounds for a buck each last year and set them aside. Person B, the reloader, bougth $50,000 in components and spent a year making 50,000 rounds. Person A's "value" of his ammo doubled in 2020 and he's sitting on $100,000. He could sell 1/2 of his ammo and recoup all his costs. Person B turned 5 valuable components into objects of no economic value. Sure he can shoot them. But if we're honest, nobody else will likely be willing to buy them... so he turned $50,000 into $0.

I must admit I sure do enjoy @leadcounsel thank you.

Yes, economics discussion. My pre-panic investment in shooting = 150%+ in the value of pre-panic loaded ammo. This now stands as 150% more post-panic ammo to shoot.

Your example of $50k for 50k of ammo, yet the reloader bought $50k of components.... Components that would actually yield at least 75K of ammo a full 150% over just buying 50k rounds of ammo. Also, your example is flawed as your commercial bought $50k of ammo is sold to yield the $50k of the net that "shooter" shot zero and has zero ammo. Bad thing for a shooter and is now a sad shooter.

Yet the reloader bought $50k of components and $15k of that was primers. She uses 50k primers at a pre-event cost of $1240. This leaves over 550,000 primers unused that are then sold at today's prices just like your example. Except primers are not selling for 2x right now. It's about 4x so the balance is sold for $55k of net gain, lets call it $50k to be conservative. The reloader loads and can SHOOT 50,000 rounds of ammo yet still sell the remaining primers for a $50k making the total cost to actually be a shooter, not just a commodity trader a perfect balance. If I wanted to trade commodities or stocks I would

#yupreloadinglowercost & still is

 

[Cheapdad]

damn, this is entertaining.................

 

[turbo_vanner]

but a reloader put together 5 components and put the finished ammo in boxes and it has lost all value,

The only value it lost, is in the secondary market, which private reloads are never intended for in the first place, you're literally making up an argument that does not exist.... If I wanted to sell something on the secondary market, it would be primers which have increased in value even more than 9mm.

Nobody is privately reloading to create an economic product or profit, that is asinine, and I'm fairly certain you already know that.... we're talking about shooting here, not running a business, which you keep trying to turn this into.

Please explain how my calculations for my cost per round are flawed when I use the price i paid for components, you seem very picky about whos arguments you pick apart.

Should I calculate my cost based on what you would pay today?

 

[RVTECH]

you're literally making up MANY arguments that do not exist....

Fixed it for you!

 

[Cardinal]

The word "specious" was used before and that is applicable to the red-herring argument that has been introduced. Namely, that reloaders are selling/exchanging their reloads with others and that should be compared to the lawful secondary market for store-bought ammo. That is illegal per federal law without the proper BATFE licensure, and not permitted on this forum.

Rather, the comparison is to the value -to the individual and for his personal consumption - of reloads vs store-bought ammo.

My reloading of obscenely-priced non-standard calibers (e.g., .38 S&W (not .38 special) or 7.65 Browning/.32acp) is economic by almost any standard. Separately, the choice to shoot a WWII-era Webley, a WWI-era Mauser or other historically interesting firearms may not be rational economically, but I think we have had enough red herrings in this thread.

 

[9th company]

You're not gong to change his mind. You can perform a deep analysis on the cost/benefits of reloading and he won't like it. He just wants to argue. He does this on EVERY board.

Someone with basic entry level job skills earning $20/hr could earn $6600 in the same time frame. My hourly rate is north of $300. Pulling a lever for 300 hours would cost me $90,000...

 

[Kruel J]

You're not gong to change his mind. You can perform a deep analysis on the cost/benefits of reloading and he won't like it. He just wants to argue. He does this on EVERY board.

Someone with basic entry level job skills earning $20/hr could earn $6600 in the same time frame. My hourly rate is north of $300. Pulling a lever for 300 hours would cost me $90,000...

I swear some people get their jollies by arguing. Makes them feel smart or better than everyone else. Jokes on them because it just makes them look pathetic and desperate for validation.

Whatever.

 

[briant27]

Reloading is always and will be cheaper. However, depends on your lifestyle and work schedule and your self worth and how much do you value your time. I think reloading is perfect for people who are retired because well, let's face it, it keeps them busy and they like it. For people who are still in the labor market or running a business, maybe it's a bad idea. You should wisely invest that time to improve your existing skill set, network with new and interesting people and finally get pay more for your new skills and the people that you know.

 

[oremike]

People have been telling me I'm doing it wrong all my life, good thing I'm not a sheeeeple and don't follow the flock. Reloading is cheaper, it's fun and there is some thing magical in the creation and shooting of ones own ammo.

Now here's the part Leadcouncel ignores, I've taken my reloading skills and tools acquired, bought the FFL, got the insurance and now make money at it. Granted I'll say it's not for everyone but ammo can be made for profit. It's all about the level of commitment and confidence in your abilities, don't have the time or inclenation, then look for factory deals and buy what you can, when you can. Want a little independence and increased skill set while saving a little money, invest some time and money into the hobby.

 

[RVTECH]

For people who are still in the labor market or running a business, maybe it's a bad idea.

So a working person should have NO hobbies or interests ?

Reloading is very much a hobby for many of us, as well as giving us the secondary benefit to shoot the ammo we produce in another hobby/sport - shooting.

 

[9th company]

Awesome, we need lots of small, local suppliers of ammo. This is strategic defense to me.

 

[briant27]

So a working person should have NO hobbies or interests ?

Reloading is very much a hobby for many of us, as well as giving us the secondary benefit to shoot the ammo we produce in another hobby/sport - shooting.

keyword "maybe". I followed that up with a few explanations.

 

[briant27]

Awesome, we need lots of small, local suppliers of ammo. This is strategic defense to me.

That would be great. I think that would bring the prices down dramatically.

 

[ma96782]

BTW, I reload and buy factory ammo (when it's "cheap enough"). Prior to the current mess that we are currently in.....I bought/stocked up. Both on steel cased 9mm, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 and .223 (to bolster my stockpiles of brassed cased reloadable ammo) and on reloading components.

It's not against the law. So, do whatever you think is best.

Hummmm......but wait.....because, soon it might just be against the law if politicians like these, get their way.



Aloha, Mark

 

[Certaindeaf]

You're not gong to change his mind. You can perform a deep analysis on the cost/benefits of reloading and he won't like it. He just wants to argue. He does this on EVERY board.

Someone with basic entry level job skills earning $20/hr could earn $6600 in the same time frame. My hourly rate is north of $300. Pulling a lever for 300 hours would cost me $90,000...

Don't forget billable hours for thread crapping.
He's gotten numerous like threads shut.
Someone here said shut the thread.
I say shut the crapper.

 

[orygun]

Funny. This thread's about a year and a half old and I think this is the first time I've seen it.

The thread title made me laugh, but that's exactly the "arguement" I used with my ex wife about buying reloading equipment. She knew how much I'd been spending on 41 Magnum ammo and it worked! I soon found out that I didn't save a nickle. I just bought more components.

I still have that reloading equipment.