Reloading Math - yup its way lower cost

[tac]

Meanwhile, here in UK - .45-70 Govt.

£59.25/20.

That's $3.48 per shot.

My reloads cost me 59c.

NOW tell me that reloading isn't cheaper.

Let's just reinforce this a little -


£72.45/50 = £145.00/C = $189.67 = $1.90 per shot.

My reloads - 28c.

 

[leadcounsel]

Meanwhile, here in UK - .45-70 Govt.

View attachment 740240£59.25/20.

That's $3.48 per shot.

My reloads cost me 59c.

NOW tell me that reloading isn't cheaper.

Let's just reinforce this a little -

View attachment 740241
£72.45/50 = £145.00/C = $189.67 = $1.90 per shot.

My reloads - 28c.

@ tac Where are you getting your primers now that your reloads are so inexpensive?

 

[Certaindeaf]

@ tac Where are you getting your primers now that your reloads are so inexpensive?

Primers last a long time.. probably from the primer cabinet.

 

[tac]

@ tac Where are you getting your primers now that your reloads are so inexpensive?

Got given 5000 small pistol and just under 8000 large rifle - that's all I shoot.

 

[leadcounsel]

Got given 5000 small pistol and just under 8000 large rifle - that's all I shoot.

Primers last a long time.. probably from the primer cabinet.

So you're comparing the "reloading costs" of stocked up old or free primers when they had little value, against the prices of modern ammo when primers are sold out everywhere?

A bit funny and fuzzy math IMO. On the flip side, wouldn't free ammo or ammo purchased 40 years ago be cheaper than reloading today with store bought supplies?

And if someone was setting back supplies years or decades ago, why not just set back fully made ammo? That's 1 component, versus the 5 components plus equipment it takes to reload?

I'm trying to understand the reloading math here...

 

[oremike]

I'm trying to understand the reloading math here...

No you are not, being the good lawyer you are, you are looking to win the argument and prove your case. What difference in YOUR world does the knowledge of someones reloading costs half way around the world make to you?

 

[Kruel J]

I'm trying to understand the reloading math here...

By arguing with everyone that reloads? Your meretricious posts aren't going to convince anyone.

 

[turbo_vanner]

I'm trying to understand the reloading math here...

I consider all my ammo as basically free. I know what components I need, and buy them like groceries, so I have a pretty deep stock and make whatever I want when I want it. I know I'm getting good deals on my components, so I dont even worry about it. I guess I might start worrying in a few years if I can't find primers by then.

 

[leadcounsel]

No you are not, being the good lawyer you are, you are looking to win the argument and prove your case. What difference in YOUR world does the knowledge of someones reloading costs half way around the world make to you?

I have tried for years to understand all this 'reloading is cheaper' philosophy, and tried to have honest discussions with reloaders. In my experience, reloaders tend to really put their hand on the scale to make their arguments economical; not factoring time (aka Opportunity Cost), or as seen here, pitting free primers or primers in storage against new factory made ammo during a scarcity.

By arguing with everyone that reloads? Your meretricious posts aren't going to convince anyone.

How am I arguing? Is this an echo chamber or are other views permitted without facing personal accusations and grievances?

In earning my many degrees, including my MBA, I've had to actually analyse and defend positions or thesis with actual facts. Can reloaders not simply respond with actual economic arguments in a thread ABOUT THE ECONOMICS of reloading?

Do you think it's a fair comparison as to how reloading is cheaper when free primers from years ago are compared against current priced ammo?

 

[Kruel J]

I have tried for years to understand all this 'reloading is cheaper' philosophy, and tried to have honest discussions with reloaders. In my experience, reloaders tend to really put their hand on the scale to make their arguments economical; not factoring time (aka Opportunity Cost), or as seen here, pitting free primers or primers in storage against new factory made ammo during a scarcity.



How am I arguing? Is this an echo chamber or are other views permitted without facing personal accusations and grievances?

In earning my many degrees, including my MBA, I've had to actually analyse and defend positions or thesis with actual facts. Can reloaders not simply respond with actual economic arguments in a thread ABOUT THE ECONOMICS of reloading?

Do you think it's a fair comparison as to how reloading is cheaper when free primers from years ago are compared against current priced ammo?

People HAVE responded with how much it costs vs buying factory. One's time and what it's worth is subjective and cannot be measured by you or anyone else. It's time, spent how they choose. You don't want to reload? Cool.But you've been arguing in this thread since the beginning in favor of buying factory ammo (you've even argued ammo bought 40 years ago, not all of us had that ability and some were in diapers or just an itch). I get it. We all do. Your continued arguing may work in a courtroom. But here at NWFA you are just another member. Citing your degrees and education isn't going to impress many. In fact it kinda makes you look desperate to "prove" yourself.

Let the reloaders spend their time as they want. You do you.

 

[turbo_vanner]

In earning my many degrees, including my MBA, I've had to actually analyse and defend positions or thesis with actual facts. Can reloaders not simply respond with actual economic arguments in a thread ABOUT THE ECONOMICS of reloading?

Do you think it's a fair comparison as to how reloading is cheaper when free primers from years ago are compared against current priced ammo?

easy, I calculate my cost by adding up what I paid for components. Since I'll be reloading at that rate for years, I think it's completely appropriate.

If you had a stack of components from years past, you would be reloading for the same component cost too. Someone getting into loading now would not, I think that's pretty obvious. Nobody is calculating current cost because everyone who is still reloading, still has a large stash. I can guarantee you 9 out of 10 folks on this thread that load are loading from a stash that is at least a few years old.

As for the dreaded time argument, I just watch less netflix and play fewer video games. That's literally the only change I made in my life to accommodate that. Not like I gave up a second job.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I have tried for years to understand all this 'reloading is cheaper' philosophy, and tried to have honest discussions with reloaders. In my experience, reloaders tend to really put their hand on the scale to make their arguments economical; not factoring time (aka Opportunity Cost), or as seen here, pitting free primers or primers in storage against new factory made ammo during a scarcity.



How am I arguing? Is this an echo chamber or are other views permitted without facing personal accusations and grievances?

In earning my many degrees, including my MBA, I've had to actually analyse and defend positions or thesis with actual facts. Can reloaders not simply respond with actualeconomic arguments in a thread ABOUT THE ECONOMICS of reloading?

Do you think it's a fair comparison as to how reloading is cheaper when free primers from years ago are compared against current priced ammo?

I choose to spend my leisure time golfing and losing $10,000 per hand poker because the only other opportunities for those costs is badmouthing reloading on the internet.
It really is the only way to go.

 

[osprey]

So are you trying to convince all us reloaders we are wasting our time? Good luck with that in the current atmosphere. Or, are you trying to justify why you don't reload, which is your prerogative. As I have said before, I have many reasons to reload, the least of which is cost savings. No one is twisting your arm to join the reloading ranks, so don't do it and let's all be done with this thread as it has run it's course in my opinion. Good day!

 

[Certaindeaf]

easy, I calculate my cost by adding up what I paid for components. Since I'll be reloading at that rate for years, I think it's completely appropriate.

If you had a stack of components from years past, you would be reloading for the same component cost too. Someone getting into loading now would not, I think that's pretty obvious. Nobody is calculating current cost because everyone who is still reloading, still has a large stash. I can guarantee you 9 out of 10 folks on this thread that load are loading from a stash that is at least a few years old.

As for the dreaded time argument, I just watch less netflix and play fewer video games. That's literally the only change I made in my life to accommodate that. Not like I gave up a second job.

But you could have invented the cure to cancer instead of seating a single primer. Fail.








lulz

 

[RVTECH]

I'm trying to understand the reloading math here...

Lets take the 'math' out of the equation.
How about:
Reloading for rare or obsolete calibers? (Understand the whole shooting 'world' does NOT revolve around .223 & 9MM)
How about the ability to create specialty loads such as greatly reduced loads for plinking, target shooting varmint hunting etc.?
How about reloading as a 'hobby' and the 'ethereal' connection some of us have with it to our shooting interests - many of which transcend the 'cause and effect' of simply buying ammo, shooting it, and then buying more.

why not just set back fully made ammo?

Most people who buy ammo to SHOOT (not hoard), SEEM to shoot it up then buy more to replenish what they shot. Reloaders OTOH appear to have a different 'foresight' and tend to buy up components on a larger scale than they would if they were buying factory ammo.

I read not only here but on other forums of those who report having 'X' amount of 1000s of rounds on hand - but rarely mention shooting much, if at all. I read a post on a forum recently where the person said he was NOT going to shoot any of his current ammo stock until the price came down on future ammo. So you fill your tank today a $2.50/gal and gas goes up to $3.00 - are you not going to drive until the gas price comes down?

In my experience those who reload seem to be more active shooters than those who do not. And I said SEEM TO BE because I know a LOT of reloaders and we all appear to shoot more than non-reloaders - Heck I shoot with a few regularly.

Also I do NOT base my 'theories' on this forum only but a couple others I frequent regularly. Quite frankly I read fewer shooting and range reports on this forum than some of the others.

 

[Helocat]

The non-reloader can get 100 rounds in seconds online, or in 1 minute during a grocery trip at Walmart...

How is that 1-minute ammo buying trip to Wallmart working out?

And do you magically have 4 components, or do you also need to order yours. What an inane position.

Bet I can get 100 rounds or greater numbers brand new faster than you can reload that many. And the greater the number the more advantage I have.

Even greater advantage if you have to procure your 4 components versus me getting made ammo.

Or do you want the unfair advantage of going to your stocks of powers, primers, shells, and bullets? I'll still be faster but if you want a fair test, let's see who can procure all new everything and see who can do it faster for ANY quantity of new ready to fire ammo.

There is no magical part of having the universal components stocked, and how is that "unfair". It's being prepared and learning from history. Some stocked hoards of commercially loaded ammo, I stocked hoards of the #1 reloading component that always go dry first, PRIMERS. Powder next as its somewhat universal then lastly projectiles. So yes I can produce ammo faster and in a quantity of better than new ready to fire ammo.

As for economics, reloading is smooth and steady and continues to have a high ROI.

12 months ago $160 bought 1k of 9mm and the good shooter bought 4k worth and have $640 in stocked ammo. Good for them!

But at the same time $640 also bought the reloader:
$220 8750 small pistol primers
$ 60 3lbs of Titegroup powder
$360 6,000 115gr 9mm bullets.

= 150% more 9mm ammo at 6k rounds + powder for 900 more loads and 2750 spare small pistol primers too spare. By being a reloader the economy of stocking components allowed me to stock over 50% more than those who stocked commercial ammo. Most importantly those small pistol primers are universal and can load any caliber that can use the SPP, they are not just 9mm. I can shoot no differently than I did 12 months ago because I reload and was prepared.

I know the time I put into reloading 12 months ago was still a win overall, nowadays it's no longer much of a factor as its a matter of actually HAVING ammo to shoot at all. Again my shooting habits have not changed. 300blk in sub, 9mm subs, 9mm supper sonic, 45 ACP, 5.56 etc. all good.

Components:
Powder = still available.
Bullets = still available RMR and Xtreme are still shipping the popular calibers w/occasional outages by a few weeks. Non-issue if you are buying what you need in 6 months from now and have proper stock 6 months + on hand.
Primers = Use what you got or just hover over the supply locations like a hawk and get them as they come up. For myself, I plan to leave primers in my will to my boys as they are very shelf worthy when stored correctly, and I have them stored correctly.

 

[RVTECH]

Even greater advantage if you have to procure your 4 components

Correction - that would only be three components - powder, bullets & primers.

Essentially all reloaders keep a good supply of brass on hand.

I keep a few pieces around myself.....

 

[Helocat]

Correction - that would only be three components - powder, bullets & primers.

Essentially all reloaders keep a good stock of brass on hand.

I keep a few pieces around myself.....
View attachment 740439

Plus all the non-reloaders are always leaving a nice flow of brass at the range. At my local range last night, I walked away from thousands of 9mm and .40 on the ground. In 9mm I shot 500 rounds but came home with over 1k in 9mm brass easy. In.38 Spc. I shot 100 and came home with 105.

 

[CLT65]

Plus all the non-reloaders are always leaving a nice flow of brass at the range. At my local range last night, I walked away from thousands of 9mm and .40 on the ground. In 9mm I shot 500 rounds but came home with over 1k in 9mm brass easy. In.38 Spc. I shot 100 and came home with 105.

My son has been bugging me to go pick up brass lately. Right now I'm working crazy long hours on an annual maintenance project, and for what I make in overtime I'd be nuts to turn down a minute of it. I told him after this is over I'll take him out there, see if there's any brass laying around.

Correction - that would only be three components - powder, bullets & primers.

Make that two components, for some of us. I have a steady source of free lead, when I want to take the time and work to get it. A couple 8-lb jugs of powder lasts forever when loading pistol rounds, I make my own bullets, pick up and reuse free brass. The weak link is primers, so if this shortage lasts more than another year or so, I'll start to worry.

Helocat, I wanted to say thanks again for meeting us at the range, and letting us shoot your guns. That was a lot of fun!

 

[P7M13]

free primers from years ago are compared against current priced ammo?

Dude, I'm surprised you haven't pulled out the arguments of time value of money and inflation to lessen the "savings" that reloaders think they have.

I have tried for years to understand all this 'reloading is cheaper' philosophy, and tried to have honest discussions with reloaders.

"...tried to have honest discussions...." is, at best, a deceptive statment. It's more like the manipulative argument a spouse would make to validate their position, soon to be followed by guilting statements. I have known many who embrace that mentality, which is easily surmised as "be reasonable, do it my way," or worse, "if you don't think like me, you're stupid."
So let's use the rational-emotive psychotherapy technique of accepting that which we all reject:
(wave magic wand) you're right, reloading doesn't save money.
There. Feel better?
Good.