Reading up on loading .223 for our AR15s...

[pharmseller]

Benchmark for bullets under 60 grains.

Varget or TAC for heavies.

 

[Mikej]

I have over 16 lbs of the 4064 for my M1. I am using it to push 125's. It is a really good powder for that. If you ever want to trade for H4895, I would be game. I go through H4895 10x faster than 4064.

I run 150 Match Kings in the Garand's. What's your ejection pattern, and load? Curious, because I figured staying close to the actual military spec bullet weight would avoid any issues with cycling. I've not run anything in mine but the the 150 gr MKs. And I've got 500 of those, and 500 Hornady 150gr FMJ/BT.

I have three #s of 4895. I think I'd consider trading two of them for 4064?

 

[JuglansRegia]

I have been using H335 for volume .223 loads and CCI#41, Tula or wolf 5.56 using 62gr fmj's for years, no problems and they shoot great. For the heavy match loads 69-77gr l use Varget they shoot better but trickling powder charges is tedious.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

I run 150 Match Kings in the Garand's. What's your ejection pattern, and load? Curious, because I figured staying close to the actual military spec bullet weight would avoid any issues with cycling.

Single loading prone the ejection is 1-2 o'clock. Rapid fire prone from the clip the ejection is 2:30-3 o'clock.

Out of a USGI barrel the 125 Speer TNT bullets are slightly more accurate as 150 FMJ/BT Hornady and 168 HPBT Nosler. Recoil is noticeably less. Bullet cost was $0.13 on sale prepanic. Currently they can be found for $0.21.

Most load them near minimum published data with 4064 or both 4895's from 47.0 to 50.0 gr. Those powders will reliably cycle an M1 with 125's much below that.

One very experienced M1 shooter I know uses 47.0gr IMR 4064 at 3.145 OAL. A guy won Springfield match Nationals with a 1903a3 using 50.0gr H4895. I have tried H4895 and IMR 4895 and found performance is negligible between the two.

With most vintage matches 200 yards or less, lighter flat base bullets have become preferred for cost and less recoil, while maintaining accuracy.

 

[Mikej]

Single loading prone the ejection is 1-2 o'clock. Rapid fire prone from the clip the ejection is 2:30-3 o'clock.

Out of a USGI barrel the 125 Speer TNT bullets are slightly more accurate as 150 FMJ/BT Hornady and 168 HPBT Nosler. Recoil is noticeably less. Bullet cost was $0.13 on sale prepanic. Currently they can be found for $0.21.

Most load them near minimum published data with 4064 or both 4895's from 47.0 to 50.0 gr. Those powders will reliably cycle an M1 with 125's much below that.

One very experienced M1 shooter I know uses 47.0gr IMR 4064 at 3.145 OAL. A guy won Springfield match Nationals with a 1903a3 using 50.0gr H4895. I have tried H4895 and IMR 4895 and found performance is negligible between the two.

With most vintage matches 200 yards or less, lighter flat base bullets have become preferred for cost and less recoil, while maintaining accuracy.

That's pretty much the ejection pattern I'm getting too. And same with recoil being less. Less than the PPU For Garand 150 gr I bought for the brass.

I would expect those two powders to run the same too, being so close on the burn rate chart.

I think I'm really missing the days of "Trying" different powders. That was part of the fun!

 

[Mikej]

Any of you roll crimp .223 for AR?

I'd read that one generally loads OAL to fit the mags. The two sources I used for data were quite a ways apart on OAL. I just made up one in the middle of 2.215" and 2.260". The latter looked like it might be too long for the mag. I made a dummy at 2.225" . It chambered and hammer dropped fine. I thought, I might be seeing where the bullet contacted the lands very slightly on the jacket. So shortened to 2.215, and going to call it good there.

FYI, I loaded 40, 10 each 23.0gr--24.5gr w/ H335 and CCI 41 primers. Going to shoot-'em Mon or Tues.

 

[Local Loader]

Any of you roll crimp .223 for AR?

I'd read that one generally loads OAL to fit the mags. The two sources I used for data were quite a ways apart on OAL. I just made up one in the middle of 2.215" and 2.260". The latter looked like it might be too long for the mag. I made a dummy at 2.225" . It chambered and hammer dropped fine. I thought, I might be seeing where the bullet contacted the lands very slightly on the jacket. So shortened to 2.215, and going to call it good there.

FYI, I loaded 40, 10 each 23.0gr--24.5gr w/ H335 and CCI 41 primers. Going to shoot-'em Mon or Tues.

Normally I just use a taper crimp when seating but I've got some that I've used a factory crimp on and going to see if they function any different for me. As for size, I just try to get as close to factory lenght as I can.

 

[JuglansRegia]

I use RCBS match dies, there is no roll crimp in the seating die so I use a "Lee factory crimp die" , but only if I am loading projectiles with a cannelure, its the only Lee product I own.

 

[fstdraw]

JuglansRegia is correct about the Lee FCD, it's a great way to finish off your reloads.

As mentioned Mikej, I do use both 24.5 and 25.0 gr. of H335 with great success(55gr FMJBT) out of 3 AR's. Also, hypothetically speaking this load shoots full auto very well when able to get hold of a fully licensed and legal machine-gun.

 

[DizzyJ]

I don't crimp any of my rifle cartridges.

 

[fstdraw]

I've always crimped for two reasons. 1) to reduce the small sharp edge on case mouth opening and to ensure that the neck tension is consistent. It may be overkill. I respect that many don't crimp at all.

 

[Catfishmoon]

I remember when I first started reloading .223 for an ar and was reading all I could, I came to the conclusion that a primer like CCI 41 are ideal. I will use a different small rifle primer, but given the option prefer the harder cap and I will pay more for them. I do believe that while uncommon, slam-fires can and do occur.
When reloading pistol ammo, I am more likely to use a wider variety of primers that are not listed in reloading manuals.
Just my 2 cents...

 

[rob1516]

The only primers that have been somewhat of an issue in 223 is the Reminton 6 1/2....but they do tell you not to use them on higher pressure rounds, so that was to be expected. When you get to mid-level powder charges, the 6.5's do tend to show signs of primer piercing.

 

[Mikej]

JuglansRegia is correct about the Lee FCD, it's a great way to finish off your reloads.

As mentioned Mikej, I do use both 24.5 and 25.0 gr. of H335 with great success(55gr FMJBT) out of 3 AR's. Also, hypothetically speaking this load shoots full auto very well when able to get hold of a fully licensed and legal machine-gun.

I got the Lee crimp die for my .30-30 rounds. Because there's a distinct reason for it. I wasn't sure about .223 in semi auto. I figure there's enough neck tension, because when I went to get the bullet out of the dummy round with the hammer puller, I was surprised I didn't finally break the dang hammer as much as i needed to beat the thing!

"Full Auto". Not any time soon!

 

[RVTECH]

I've always crimped for two reasons. 1) to reduce the small sharp edge on case mouth

Do you NOT use a deburring tool to chamfer the case mouths?

If not you might want to consider one. Especially with rounds you do NOT need to crimp but want to eliminate the sharp edge as you mentioned.

I don't crimp several calibers but always chamfer the mouths with the RCBS tool.

 

[Local Loader]

Lyman makes a nice tools set for that, it's a hand tool that has the debur, cam, small & large pocket uniformer/reamer and large & small pocket cleaner.

 

[fstdraw]

I do debur and chamfer, that's what makes the sharp edge. I much like reloading .223 cases I don't need to trim, no sharp edge. I uniform the primer pockets as well.

I misspoke. I'm not trying to iron out a sharp edge, more like flatting out the slightly thinner case mouth.

 

[Mikej]

Lyman makes a nice tools set for that, it's a hand tool that has the debur, cam, small & large pocket uniformer/reamer and large & small pocket cleaner.

I presume you're talking about this?

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-7777800-Case-Prep-Multi/dp/B004MCMCYE/ref=sr_1_3?gclid=CjwKCAjwgr6TBhAGEiwA3aVuIVJ4YRqITfSoYrPQ3idJwWVA7lNcd1ySHgv89jmxtZ1-lHqPWRtkPxoC-xIQAvD_BwE&hvadid=249464543401&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9061079&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15481570009827240360&hvtargid=kwd-303879720857&hydadcr=24634_10399774&keywords=deburring+tool+lyman&qid=1651500354&sr=8-3

$31.00 seems stoopid. But dang it! After deburring and cleaning the pockets of a couple hundred brass, with that little tiny pocket cleaner and RCBS tool, my old fingers are talking to me. And it's NOT sweet whispers!

 

[arrowshooter]

After a couple of years I got tired of the "twisty" deburring tools and bought one of these. There are a number of different brands of these, but this one is mine.

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-050160-Lock-N-Load-Case-Prep/dp/B007TNXAGM/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1OA3KTKAUQLDU&keywords=hornady+case+prep&qid=1651501428&sprefix=hornady+case+prep%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-5

 

[Mikej]

After a couple of years I got tired of the "twisty" deburring tools and bought one of these. There are a number of different brands of these, but this one is mine.

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-050160-Lock-N-Load-Case-Prep/dp/B007TNXAGM/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1OA3KTKAUQLDU&keywords=hornady+case+prep&qid=1651501428&sprefix=hornady+case+prep%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-5

I love it, but I'm not that high output currently. I also think the finger work helps to keep my hands nimble.

I foolishly sold a Hornady case prep center that was a gift back when I first started reloading. Dec 2011. I wasn't ever going to reload long gun! And the money I got for it (NEW), went into powder, primers and brass.
Now, where is that kicking-your-dumb-self emoji?