Rancher/Sheriff Idaho shooting

[mjbskwim]

I'm wondering how the interview with the crash party is going
They will be a big part of this

 

[No_Regerts]

I'm wondering how the interview with the crash party is going
They will be a big part of this

Big time, but they arent getting much airtime on this thread.

 

[mjbskwim]

What about the EMTs? No word on them being interviewed either
Wonder if they were "coached" by anyone?

 

[Steve Baze]

I don't see it as who survives at all. I think that kind of thinking is not necessarily a good thing? The question for me is why did it happen and if it were in any way justified. I have a hard time imagining the rancher was that out of control that he needed to be shot and or assume the LEOs were in fear of their lives and that reasonable justification needs to be proved, so it is a completely valid question to ask what happened and not simply give the LEOs a pardon or any kind of excuses for a life taken. Beyond that, too many police have been shot at or killed lately but so have too many civvies as you call them. Police are not and should not be allowed the benefit of doubt in every event. That is why we are supposed to be a nation of "rule of law" and not ruled by tyrrants or bullies. There are quite a few LEOs out there that likely should not be. Just as we know there are plenty of actual criminals. Supposedly these LEOs were there to protect and serve ? we shall see , Hey ?

 

[No_Regerts]

What about the EMTs? No word on them being interviewed either
Wonder if they were "coached" by anyone?

I doubt that would get anywhere unless they were related somehow. No loyalty between two very different professions.

 

[Brutus57]

What I am saying is if you possess an item that looks like a firearm and the LEOs show up even if it is air soft you are most likely going to end up dead. The unfortunate part is we may not ever know the truth on this one. Is the ISP non partisan? We hope. Will the EMTs throw their fellow first responders under the bus if the deputies were unjustified in shooting Yantis? Or will they tell the investigators exactly what they saw...or did they see anything beyond the trapped folks in the Subaru Was one deputy really wounded by Yantis or was it a ricochet from his or his partner's weapon?
Many, many questions on this one.

Brutus Out

 

[No_Regerts]

I don't see it as who survives at all. I think that kind of thinking is not necessarily a good thing? The question for me is why did it happen and if it were in any way justified. I have a hard time imagining the rancher was that out of control that he needed to be shot and or assume the LEOs were in fear of their lives and that reasonable justification needs to be proved, so it is a completely valid question to ask what happened and not simply give the LEOs a pardon or any kind of excuses for a life taken. Beyond that, too many police have been shot at or killed lately but so have too many civvies as you call them. Police are not and should not be allowed the benefit of doubt in every event. That is why we are supposed to be a nation of "rule of law" and not ruled by tyrrants or bullies. There are quite a few LEOs out there that likely should not be. Just as we know there are plenty of actual criminals. Supposedly these LEOs were there to protect and serve ? we shall see , Hey ?

A lot will be looked at. It was dark, there were human injuries from the crash, whatever the bull was doing, etc. A shooting can be ruled as justified, no evidence of malice or unjustified. Justified means officer can not be charged or held civilly liable. No evidence of malice means no prosecution, but can be sued and can be disciplined/fired. Unjustified means there will be charges.

 

[Steve Baze]

What I am saying is if you possess an item that looks like a firearm and the LEOs show up even if it is air soft you are most likely going to end up dead. The unfortunate part is we may not ever know the truth on this one. Is the ISP non partisan? We hope. Will the EMTs throw their fellow first responders under the bus if the deputies were unjustified in shooting Yantis? Or will they tell the investigators exactly what they saw...or did they see anything beyond the trapped folks in the Subaru Was one deputy really wounded by Yantis or was it a ricochet from his or his partner's weapon?
Many, many questions on this one.

Brutus Out

I agree on all points and I imagine we likely will know the truth and would not be at all surprised if somebody gets prosecuted. There were many witnesses and the LEOS had body cameras as well as car dash videos. The witnesses are already saying the guy was murdered and it was not justifiable at all, so we shall surely find out. This will not get swept under the rug with so many people present ! On the other hand we know people say all manner of things that may not turn out to be correct ? Rest assured we will find out on this one as we should. The guys wife is in the hospital with a heart attack from this event as well so you can bet the community will want to know the entire truth of the matter and it will not get covered up.

 

[RVTECH]

I agree with facts still NEEDING to be known but the PREPONDERANCE of evidence suggests the LEOs had no reason or need to shoot. As I mentioned before this was NOT a criminal response, the rancher was not a criminal and didn't suddenly 'become' one and decide to turn on the cops.

 

[No_Regerts]

I agree with facts still NEEDING to be known but the PREPONDERANCE of evidence suggests the LEOs had no reason or need to shoot. As I mentioned before this was NOT a criminal response, the rancher was not a criminal and didn't suddenly 'become' one and decide to turn on the cops.

So, a fancy way of saying 51%? And that's a gift, considering that none of us have actually seen any real evidence. It's all hearsay at this point.

 

[RVTECH]

So, a fancy way of saying 51%?

No, not at all which is why I used the word 'preponderance' Instead of saying 'I think or believe'. Facts still need to be known and made clear.

 

[mjbskwim]

What I am saying is if you possess an item that looks like a firearm and the LEOs show up even if it is air soft you are most likely going to end up dead.

He did not have a gun when he showed up. The LEO were there first.Yantiz was called to the accident to take care of the bull.
There was absolutely no reason to believe Yantiz was doing anything but putting the bull down

So, a fancy way of saying 51%? And that's a gift, considering that none of us have actually seen any real evidence. It's all hearsay at this point.

No disrespect here but you are sounding like you are defending the LEOs no matter what. I know it's natural to defend your comrades. And I may be prejudiced on this one but I believe one of the problems is LEOs will most always defend LEOs,no matter what
Golly,what happens if I get in that situation?
Seems like it was always a good shooting. This is why law enforcement is losing public trust in my opinion

 

[No_Regerts]

He did not have a gun when he showed up. The LEO were there first.Yantiz was called to the accident to take care of the bull.
There was absolutely no reason to believe Yantiz was doing anything but putting the bull down


No disrespect here but you are sounding like you are defending the LEOs no matter what. I know it's natural to defend your comrades. And I may be prejudiced on this one but I believe one of the problems is LEOs will most always defend LEOs,no matter what
Golly,what happens if I get in that situation?
Seems like it was always a good shooting. This is why law enforcement is losing public trust in my opinion

But youll also notice I havent attempted to condemn the deceased or jusge their possible actions. I havent made any comments regarding statements from the family members.

I just want to see the camera footage so I can develop an opinion. We wont get to see the rest of the physical evidence, but the video will tell all. Statements from witnesses are rarely objective and serve best as something to provide context to video footage.

Believe me, I think its totally conceivable that its a bad shoot. I just dont like to launch the SCUD until Im sure. Even if the video shows a 100% good shoot, everyone has already developed opinions and have their pitchforks out. Thats why our justice system works the way it does. Fair and impartial.....as possible.

 

[slimmer13]

A lot will be looked at. It was dark, there were human injuries from the crash, whatever the bull was doing, etc. A shooting can be ruled as justified, no evidence of malice or unjustified. Justified means officer can not be charged or held civilly liable. No evidence of malice means no prosecution, but can be sued and can be disciplined/fired. Unjustified means there will be charges.

Not necessarily. Hirzel was ruled justified when he shot Scott Creach in Spokane Valley but the family was awarded 2 million in civil court.

 

[No_Regerts]

Not necessarily. Hirzel was ruled justified when he shot Scott Creach in Spokane Valley but the family was awarded 2 million in civil court.

It determines the ability to sue the officer directly, not the department itself. If I shoot someone and its determined to be justified, the department can still be held liable for faulty policy/training and the AG office takes our case. If there isnt enough evidence to prosecute but the shoot is not declared as completely justified, I can still be sued with legal fees being at my own expense.

 

[slimmer13]

I see

 

[No_Regerts]

I see

A good case to look at is Tennessee v. Garner. According to Tennessee state law, an officer could use any means necessary to stop a fleeing felon. A kid burglarized a house and fled on foot and was shot and killed. The family sued the state and department and tried to sue the officer. The shooting was ruled to be in accordance with state law, but the law was later ruled unconstitutional but the officer was not held as personally liable. He retired as a Captain.

 

[Steve Baze]

But youll also notice I havent attempted to condemn the deceased or jusge their possible actions. I havent made any comments regarding statements from the family members.

I just want to see the camera footage so I can develop an opinion. We wont get to see the rest of the physical evidence, but the video will tell all. Statements from witnesses are rarely objective and serve best as something to provide context to video footage.

Believe me, I think its totally conceivable that its a bad shoot. I just dont like to launch the SCUD until Im sure. Even if the video shows a 100% good shoot, everyone has already developed opinions and have their pitchforks out. Thats why our justice system works the way it does. Fair and impartial.....as possible.

I agree on all points. We will simply have to wait for all evidence to come forth from all sources to make a final determination, and I imagine it will in this case one way or another.

Another point unrelated to this event but specifically to this issue of police shootings, is the general state of affairs involving the ability of police to function properly in our society. On one hand we have seen far too many bad shootings in many areas of the country in recent years and on the other we see racial issues inflamed by our own government and leaders and many times not even close to the truth of any matter. An example would be Mikey in Ferguson and the hands up don't shoot garbage that was a complete lie as well as the Baltimore ongoing fiasco where the officers are being sacrificed to the race Gods ! There have been many such events that result in LEOs being put in an impossible no win position. So we have two dynamics in play, and it appears to me this is all very deliberate and destructive. Personally I think the militarization of the police state is way past out of control and has nothing to do with "protect and serve". It violates far too many constitutional ethics and precepts and is just another form of control mechanisms and intimidation and a bit tyrranical. On the other hand many police feel like they simply don't want to be the victim for doing their job and now many realize they have been marginalized by our so-called leaders for political gain. This is the kind of mayhem you get when you have a politically corrupt and agenda driven system of governance. The community organizer in charge is responsible for all of it in my view and should be a very serious lesson and wake up call to all !

 

[No_Regerts]

What gets me is that occurances of LE being killed by bad guys is actually way down. But, coverage is way up and I can see some people working spooked. Just last year we had an officer on a warrant sweep fly off the handle and litterally, 3 of us yelled "what the *@$!#" at the same time and dragged the guy off the subject. He ended up having to get a psych eval and is now on an unarmed assignment with a higher rate for the forseable future. We are getting a lot more vocal about unsafe officers.

 

[308]

What gets me is that occurances of LE being killed by bad guys is actually way down. But, coverage is way up and I can see some people working spooked. Just last year we had an officer on a warrant sweep fly off the handle and litterally, 3 of us yelled "what the *@$!#" at the same time and dragged the guy off the subject. He ended up having to get a psych eval and is now on a desk at a decreased pay rate for the forseable future. We are getting a lot more vocal about unsafe officers.

Does the union prevent you from firing his bubblegum before he kills someone?