Q: Focus on front site or target?

[ratchoke99]

Hey yall, for the longest time I've been aiming with one eye and aligning up the sites and then firing, but lately I've been trying to aim with both eyes open. I did some research online and many recommend focusing on the front site while lining up the back, and both the target and back sites will be blurred. I did this many times dry-firing and the concept made sense and I thought I had it down. But once I got to the range I couldn't actually aim, I just shot center mass and the target looked like swiss cheese. Which I guess is great for self defense in under 10yards, but I also want to have good accuracy for trying to compete in IDPA. What did work for me was focusing on my target and bringing up the frontsite THEN slightly focusing on the frontsite w/out losing my target too much, backsites were brought into alignment almost naturally, and then firing. I found myself extremely accurate with that. So which way is correct technique and which way I should focus on for improving marksmanship?...

Read More

 

[Mistman]

It's all about the front site and maintaining a proper sight picture. You cannot focus on 3 planes at the same time, rear sight, front sight and target. The sight alignment still needs to be as perfect as possible, the front post sitting in the rear notch PROPERLY. The front and rear are aligned as good as you can get them and the front sight placed in the center of the blurry target, if the front and rear sights are properly aligned the shot will go to the center of the target. Maintaining the sight picture is critical, any misalignment of the front post and rear notch will cause your shot miss the 'center' of the target.

I heard it described like shooting down a 3" pipe, if your sights are perfectly aligned the variation in your hold (wiggle, wobble) will be less important than if your sights are not aligned properly, you will still hit within the 3" window at the end of the pipe. I didn't describe it as well as I've heard it told but basically the movement between the front and rear of the gun (sights) is more critical to hitting the target than the overall movement of the gun. While holding your sight on the target the movement down range, where you see the front sight moving on the target, is probably less than 3", the goal would be to hit within that movement and you can't do that if your sights are not properly aligned. Putting the front post evenly w/in the rear notch every time (while only focusing on the front sight) is where the practice comes in, it will become intuitive over time (remember the rear sight is slightly out of focus).

If your shooting rapid fire and focusing only on the front sight then a swiss cheese center mass is probably a good thing. When I shoot rapid fire I only concentrate on the front sight, getting the front sight back on target as quickly as possible while maintaining a good hold on the gun will put your shots in center mass pretty much every time.

There's a lot of info out there about it but you really need to send thousands of rounds down range to figure out how that formula works for you.

 

[KKG]

Learn "Point Shooting". A Fine Gentleman by the name of Jim Gregg has written a Book about the System he teaches and it is excellent.

 

[ratchoke99]

Thanks, Ill look into that. Atm i'm finishing up Chris Sajnog's book.

I'm assuming this is what you're talking about?

Jim Gregg - Handgun Training

 

[KKG]

I'm assuming this is what you're talking about?

Jim Gregg - Handgun Training

Yep. He was a great Instructor.

 

[ratchoke99]

Yep. He was a great Instructor.

Thanks, I'll check it out. I believe that is what I was doing at the range yesterday. Point-shooting or 'instinctive' shooting. It definitely felt a lot more natural. Do you yourself apply that technique? And if yes, have you ever used it in any pistol competitions?

 

[KKG]

Thanks, I'll check it out. I believe that is what I was doing at the range yesterday. Point-shooting or 'instinctive' shooting. It definitely felt a lot more natural. Do you yourself apply that technique? And if yes, have you ever used it in any pistol competitions?

The Only Competition shooting I did was NRA Hunter Pistol Silhouette. From what I have seen, the others are simply Games being played by the wantabes. As a LEO and NRA Police Firearms Instructor I have used the Jim Gregg system. I've found it very effective, especially when under stress.

 

[41mag]

THEN slightly focusing on the frontsite w/out losing my target too much,

variations on this theme seem to work best IMHO

Another secret that you have discovered, is 'research' as well as 'live fire practice'....
eventually you will discover what does work best for you;

... 15 years ago my vision was deteriorating badly & my vision in dominant eye had dipped to "20/400"....which explained why my focus on 'front sight' had become quite challenged.

Working with the 'two open eyes/front sight/point & shoot' concept & training along with what proved to be restorative medical eye care via lasers & surgery my accuracy has improved.

The demands of specific range games can influence your ability to alter your sighting techniques as required. 'Bulls eye' demands considerably different than such as speed steel. Principles are similar but somewhat varied.

 

[bbbass]

In IDPA, which I compete in, sight technique is dependent on distance. Nevertheless there are a lot of opinions out there among IDPA shooters. This explains it best for me:

"Probably, the optimum answer is to use all three of these shooting techniques: PS for real close distances of 3 yards or less, FSP shooting for over 3 to about 10 yards, and Sighted Shooting for beyond about 10 yards. Effective PS, just like Sighted Shooting, is dependent on the time available, the distance to the target or threat, and how much accuracy is actually needed to resolve any given situation. With any technique, practice for accuracy is what really matters."

Where PS = Point shooting, FSP = Flash Sight Picture. Flash Sight Picture Technique for Close-Up Defensive Shooting - USA Carry

 

[ratchoke99]

Great info, thank you guys. I really do appreciate it! A lot of good info a clearing things up.

 

[bbbass]

Don't forget proper draw... Strong hand pushes your cover garment back, take grip (high on the grip), lift pistol out of holster and bring it to your belly button (doesn't have to be exact, pistol points slightly low and then downrange), weak hand meets strong hand at belly and a two handed grip is established with the thumbs mating and both pointing forward (some shooters hold their right thumb up), bring your pistol up and slightly out to the point where it is at eye level, push the pistol straight out at target. You should be able to establish your sighting during this final move and finish it up quickly as you start to press trigger.

At 4-7 feet, I do not use my sights. My finger and thumbs are my guides but I am focusing on the target over the top of the barrel.

At 3' or under (within arm distance), I am shooting from the hip. Practice it. You will surprise yourself!

I have taught my wife these techniques for personal defense and she does real well.

 

[KKG]

I have taught my wife these techniques for personal defense and she does real well.

And, just how many times has she "Actually" done 'real well' against the Bad Guys???

 

[bbbass]

And, just how many times has she "Actually" done 'real well' against the Bad Guys???

We train.

How many times have you gone up against a real live attacker?

 

[KKG]

5

 

[bbbass]

What is your problem with what I wrote? I meant she does well in training. I am an IDPA shooter, which the OP asked about. My point was that the techniques I taught my wife are easily learned.

If you want to share what worked for you in your encounters, please go ahead. I'd love to hear those stories. By all means give us your expertise.

 

[KKG]

I've shared what works for me. The System that Jim Gregg teaches. I just don't use what I've learned to play Games.

 

[Kruel J]

I've shared what works for me. The System that Jim Gregg teaches. I just don't use what I've learned to play Games.

So training, matches and drills are now "games"? Huh.

 

[KKG]

So training, matches and drills are now "games"? Huh.

Well, it seems somebody reads my Posts.

 

[bbbass]

I've shared what works for me. The System that Jim Gregg teaches. I just don't use what I've learned to play Games.

And yet, the OP asked about the IDPA "game".

You know, I wasn't contradicting you, was just adding an opinion to the conversation. Jim Gregg is probably a fine trainer and has given you tools that you have used to put down BGs five times. You've definitely proven that you have a bigger penis than my wife and me together. Good for you. But I'd still like to hear the details. Are you a LEO, a PI, in the military... how did these encounters happen? I'm curious, because most people miss constantly in a for real encounter.

 

[KKG]

I'm not into telling war stories, about some things.