Portland Ofc. shoots 12yr old girl with bean bag.

[284guy]

You must remember not everyone here is law abiding, educated, drug free or even legally allowed to own a gun. Your going to have a lot of people who dont know a damn thing about law enforcement other than " the cop who arrested me and made me dump out my pot last month was a jerk" Ill bet you big money many of the people who are anti LEO on here are pot heads or have been arrested before. Heck, Ill bet several even buy guns off classified ads because they couldnt pass a background check. Nothing the police could have done would have satisfied everyone, and being arrested doesnt make you an expert. This little bubblegum was out of control and deserved it. Her mother thanked the police even after she knew they used a bean bag round. James Chasse, had his family cared about him as much before he resisted arrest and died as they did about profiting from his death, hed still be aliive, medicated somewhere for his mental illness. Too many rebels without a clue.....

 

[PMKN_PI]

Im am sorry, but this 12 year old (out at 11pm at night, where are the damn parents?) was big, assaulting cops, and had already been banned from MAX already. She got a bruise on her leg. Period. No damage, no death, this cops does his job, and he is immediately hung by the leftist bureaucrat pigs in Portland. Im glad that the Police Union is moving to a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in Chief Sizer and Commissioner Saltzman. This is garbage. I think people like Saltzman should be BANNED from recieving assistance from police, period. Robbed at gunpoint? Too bad, **** outta luck. Wife getting aussaulted by a rapist? Too bad, you dont support the cops. What ELSE ARE THE COPS SUPPOSED TO DO IF THEY ARE BEING ASSAULTED BY GHETTO TRASH? JUST WALK AWAY??

 

[clearconscience]

You must remember not everyone here is law abiding, educated, drug free or even legally allowed to own a gun. Your going to have a lot of people who dont know a damn thing about law enforcement other than " the cop who arrested me and made me dump out my pot last month was a jerk" Ill bet you big money many of the people who are anti LEO on here are pot heads or have been arrested before. Heck, Ill bet several even buy guns off classified ads because they couldnt pass a background check. Nothing the police could have done would have satisfied everyone, and being arrested doesnt make you an expert. This little bubblegum was out of control and deserved it. Her mother thanked the police even after she knew they used a bean bag round. James Chasse, had his family cared about him as much before he resisted arrest and died as they did about profiting from his death, hed still be aliive, medicated somewhere for his mental illness. Too many rebels without a clue.....

Although I couldn't agree more.
I there's also a lot of people here who just hate authority, or gov't.
I'm sure they hate anyone who could possible tell them they can't do something. Maybe belong more on Whenshtf.com instead of a firearms forum, HOWEVER,
I do understand this is a forum with different views and you can't help, but know this is what our country is made of different people, different religions, different views. And maybe I don't agree with some of you, maybe even hate your view. It's a free county and you have the right to express your 1st amendment right, partly because police, soldiers, and many other patriots have fought and continue that fight today in order to keep it that way.

 

[Gunner3456]

How about we change the subject before this gets any worse? I don't mind a good fight, but I just had my nails done.

 

[shibbershabber]

It's a free county and you have the right to express your 1st amendment right, partly because police, soldiers, and many other patriots have fought and continue that fight today in order to keep it that way.

I just might open a can of worms here that will get the thread locked...

But can you explain to me how the police and/or military has done anything in recent history to protect the First Amendment? Or any of our other constitutional freedoms?

Seems to me that they are just the ones who would carry out an unconstitutional order against the general population... Like a gun-grab, illegal searches & seizures, etc...

Just a thought.

 

[Trlsmn]

I just might open a can of worms here that will get the thread locked...

But can you explain to me how the police and/or military has done anything in recent history to protect the First Amendment? Or any of our other constitutional freedoms?

Seems to me that they are just the ones who would carry out an unconstitutional order against the general population... Like a gun-grab, illegal searches & seizures, etc...

Just a thought.

Is that really their job?

 

[clearconscience]

I just might open a can of worms here that will get the thread locked...

But can you explain to me how the police and/or military has done anything in recent history to protect the First Amendment? Or any of our other constitutional freedoms?

Seems to me that they are just the ones who would carry out an unconstitutional order against the general population... Like a gun-grab, illegal searches & seizures, etc...

Just a thought.

They are there to stand for our freedoms, to ensure you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

But if you don't think so your more than welcome to find another county.
We have also liberated several other countries.
Maybe our gov't idea of why we wage war is wrong, but the reason we fight is right. Millions in the military now believe vary strongly why their fighting, to free others, to ensure we ourselves stay free.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to injustice everywhere.
Therefore how can we continue to be a free country if we let the world run rampant with tyranny.

If you don't believe in that, or our service members then how can you call yourself an American?

 

[Trlsmn]

Millions in the military now believe vary strongly why their fighting, to free others,

If you ask the average soldier what he's fighting for, it's not for their country, the constitution, God, or the liberation of others, it's for their brothers that are fighting right next them.

 

[Gunner3456]

They are there to stand for our freedoms, to ensure you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

But if you don't think so your more than welcome to find another county.

We have also liberated several other countries.

The Portland Police did all that? All because of a 12 year old girl?

Maybe our gov't idea of why we wage war is wrong, but the reason we fight is right. Millions in the military now believe vary strongly why their fighting, to free others, to ensure we ourselves stay free.

It also took millions in the military to subdue that girl? I missed that part.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to injustice everywhere.
Therefore how can we continue to be a free country if we let the world run rampant with tyranny.

I dunno. Is a police officer shooting a 12 year old girl with a "less lethal" weapon at close range while two others hold her down tyranny?

What is tyranny?

If you don't believe in that, or our service members then how can you call yourself an American?

 

[ob1]

Why should a cop have to put themselves in harms way by physically fighting with somebody? QUOTE]
Because it's their job... and they volunteer for it, plus they are well trained... aren't them?

:bsflag:

WRONG !!! It is not their job to expose themselves to physical threat (physical injury, infectious disease etc) if....... they have an effective option available, which includes using their bean bag rounds.

Your comment sounds like you feel that because they are trained and on the payroll they must choose to endure physical abuse because the perp is young. What comes next ? ...Should our fireman run into burning buildings without using their protective equipment because we pay them to be tough ? ...
We don't employ disposable androids, they also have families to go home to.

For those of you who say that the cops have to be "tough" and only subdue a feral perp using the "Vulcan Neck Pinch", perhaps you should just go back to flexing your muscles in front of the mirror. :nuts:

 

[Gunner3456]

There was a book written called "Things I Learned In Kindergarten."

One of the things I learned early was that two people don't hold someone down while a third person kicks them.

Just sayin'.

 

[shibbershabber]

Maybe our gov't idea of why we wage war is wrong, but the reason we fight is right. Millions in the military now believe vary strongly why their fighting, to free others, to ensure we ourselves stay free.

So the Govt's objective may not be freedom, but as long as the individual soldier believes he is fighting for freedom, that means our freedom is protected?

Injustice anywhere is a threat to injustice everywhere.
Therefore how can we continue to be a free country if we let the world run rampant with tyranny.

Then why is it that we let so many other people live under oppressive governments? Why do we stand by when civilians are being murdered, brutalized, raped, tortured, intentionally starved? Why do we permit governments to deny their people the basic rights that we take for granted here in the US?

If its all about freedom, why dont we liberate Iran? Which was far more oppressive than Iraq...

Tell me why all of a sudden we have to occupy Afghanistan to protect our freedoms? The people of Afghanistan have been under one form of tyranny or another for longer than the USA has been a country. Tell me how invading and "freeing" that country has strengthened your constitutional rights?

I would say that if you did a little research, you would find that our freedoms have been eroded more in the last 8 years than they were before 9/11.

How were your freedoms protected by the Vietnam War? Or Gulf War 1?

If you don't believe in that, or our service members then how can you call yourself an American?

I dont believe in that because I am a true American. I believe in our military being the best and brightest the world has ever seen. I dont believe in sending them into a meat-grinder for political purposes. I believe in bringing them home ASAP and not entering into these kinds of conflicts in the future.

I dont necessarily disagree with regime-change policies or foreign intervention... I just dont like seeing our guys getting killed over some bubblegums who dont want to be free anyway, or dont know how to be free. Freedom cant be given it must be earned, thats why the strongest, most free countries gained their own freedom... and why the third world cant get its act together.

Having the military fight and die for a lie, while convincing them that they are protecting Americans' freedoms... is treasonous.

 

[Benny503]

:bsflag:

WRONG !!! It is not their job to expose themselves to physical threat (physical injury, infectious disease etc) if....... they have an effective option available, which includes using their bean bag rounds.

Your comment sounds like you feel that because they are trained and on the payroll they must choose to endure physical abuse because the perp is young. What comes next ? ...Should our fireman run into burning buildings without using their protective equipment because we pay them to be tough ? ...
We don't employ disposable androids, they also have families to go home to.

For those of you who say that the cops have to be "tough" and only subdue a feral perp using the "Vulcan Neck Pinch", perhaps you should just go back to flexing your muscles in front of the mirror. :nuts:

OK I admit you are right in other any other cases... but I was mainly just talking about this incident. a 12 years old girl have no weapon in hand can put 3 officers in harm? If you think she cable of doing that then I will bow down to you.... with both of my hand and knee

Cop doesn't have to be tought, but they have to have mentally and physically trained for this kind of incident.... that is what they are getting pay for.... they should of know that. Tell me you didn't know that being a cop is a dangerous job...... :winkkiss:

Darn I do look good in the mirror... practicing withdraw my handgun from the holster too.... I do look like Asian John Wayne

 

[tionico]

One aspect of this whole confrontationn seems to have been missed by all those ragging on the PPB. That is that this girl had been part of a large rowdy gang that was first confronted by the cops, then began to disperse my loading on the MAX. This girl in particular had been disruptive on the train. At the next stop, she and a pile of others got off. Still rowdy and disruptive, also the report of a weapon being found somewhere in the crowd.

So, now, this girl gets off, and is ordered to stop and submit to the cops. She fights. ALright, the cops have TWO things to deal with. Her being wild, crazy, physical, And the crowd, already rowdy, hyped, likely drugged.... and very possibly armed. As this girl is being dealt with, more of her ilk debark from the train she just left. What, are the coppers supposed to play nice and gentle, the four of then gently subduing her in her fury, while fifty of her pals rush the four cops down on the ground with her, snag some of the cops' sidearms, and start shooting the crowd? or the cops?
come ON, guys.... look at the whole situation. It wasn't four cops against one nice sweet little girl, Nosiree, it was four cops (ONLY... bet they were wishing they were a dozen or more just then) attempting to defuse a far larger and more complex situation that had been threatening a far larger area for some time. Almost none of those kids should have been out on the streets at that time. My guess is that the other cops backed off from the focus of their joint attention to guard against the rest of the crowd rushing them. Never happened before>? Yeaj, on what planet?

Happened to be visiting relatives down that way the weekend. A guest in their home happens to be a PPB cop, some 25 years or so on the force, He knows this cop, has worked with him. He also says the one incident in the past 10 years with this guy (the homeless guy dying....) has been blown all out of proportion. Same with this. The cops there, all four of them, followed very closely the protocol worked out, and trained into the men on the streets. He handled himself precisely as they are trained to do. And now half the town has their knickers in a knot because the creep happens to be a 12 year old female. Well, great. An adult male of thirty, same size,weight, strength, would likely have received the same treatment.... per their training.

Perhaps PPB officers SHOULD to on strike for a month or so, and see how the whining heart-throb public screaming about brutality handle themselves when these punk kids get so far out of control on one is safe driving the streets of Gresham after dark. My guess is things will look a lot like Chicago Gangland during Prohibition. Blood in the streets, no sane person out after dark, MAX totally unsafe......


WE as a society have left these sorts of feral youth to their own devices, with no consequences to themselves for their barbarous behaviour. Remove the police, utter chaos won't be far away. Or citizen rule by main force. Then the 12 year old feral girls will not be getting beanbags in the thigh any more for refusing to leave others alone. No, they WILL be getting the Glock solution on a regular basis.

I've tangled with some abusive and belligerent PPB guys.. creeps that should be sent off to patrol the ice floes off Antarctica (maybe that would cause them to chill a bit). But this situation was handled according to the highest professional standards. The guest I chatted with the weekend certainly has on reason to tell any fabricated version of the story.... hey, he was in the wrong city and state to be able to make any difference. HE has to deal with precisely this sort of trash on a regular basis, and shakes his head at where this culture is going. If we continue in this wise, we WILL be seeing anarchy in the cities, as the youthh will have got old, wiley, tough, armed enough to rule as THEY see fit. And the police will be using things like grenades and BMG 50's from rooftops rather than beanbags.... because nothing short of the "heavy artilllery" will speak loudly enough.

My friend also stated that in using the beanbag shottie, the sound of the blast is enough to cause everyone in the vicinity to take pause.... unless you're the one actually hit, everyone hearing it will be certain it is full of lead shot.... and become VERY afraid. The sound of the blast is likely what defused the advancing crowd of hooligans. It is a sound that is hard to miss, equally hard to misunderstand. In this instance, it seems to have been very effective in helping the crowd to reach wise decisions about cancelling their plans for further mayhem. Something about hearing that noise......

 

[PosterGuy]

Millions in the military now believe vary strongly why their fighting, to free others, to ensure we ourselves stay free.

Wow...it must have taken you a LONG time to poll every service member. By the way, how many military members do you think there are?

Therefore how can we continue to be a free country if we let the world run rampant with tyranny.

Please quote the Constitutional basis for being world police.

If you don't believe in that, or our service members then how can you call yourself an American?

So, if you don't think the United States should conquer the world your un-American? Please don't use "service members" as your own arguementative crutch.

 

[Stomper]

If you ask the average soldier what he's fighting for, it's not for their country, the constitution, God, or the liberation of others, it's for their brothers that are fighting right next them.

+1


Most of us (I'm an 8 yr. Army Infantry Vet) join for Mom, Dad, God, and County/Constitution... some of us join for the college education bennies, some of us join because there was no were else to turn.... but when we fight/fought that all goes out the window, we fight to stay alive and keep as many of our buddies alive as possible.

When I look around and see so many wankers running around shooting their mouths (and guns) off, taking their freedoms for granted, tearing down their own country and spitting on the founding principles that made this country the best in human history, and where this country is headed right now... it isn't/wasn't worth the sacrifices.

 

[Randini]

As someone posted, that beanbag should not have been fired under 21 feet. I have not read one of you who say you are a LEO or know a LEO say if this is right or not that is the root issue is it not.
To read some of the posts some would like to see our children get Lobotomys and government mental programing to make them nice and docile, this would have to be done to all kids to be fair or you just like calling kids names, grow up.

 

[shibbershabber]

One aspect of this whole confrontationn seems to have been missed by all those ragging on the PPB. That is that this girl had been part of a large rowdy gang that was first confronted by the cops, then began to disperse my loading on the MAX. This girl in particular had been disruptive on the train. At the next stop, she and a pile of others got off. Still rowdy and disruptive, also the report of a weapon being found somewhere in the crowd.

First off, I think you have been watching waaay too much tv.

If that were the case, and this bunch of kids was a violent gang causing trouble on MAX... where is the surveillance camera footage from inside the train?
A weapon was "reported", but where is it? Who had it?

There is a difference between being rowdy and disruptive and being a violent gang victimizing people. (btw, there really isnt anyone worth a bubblegum on MAX at that hour anyway, so who were they disturbing?)

SO where is the rest of the story? If it were really the case, why havent the officers come forward with some sort of evidence that this group, and this GIRL in particular was a threat to public safety? Im sure all of this would go away if they could show that this group/girl were armed and a threat to the public.
Wait, I forgot... their socialist commie commanders are suppressing that evidence, and the liberal media is not letting the officers be heard, right??

 

[JAFO]

<snip>

Advancing crowd of hooligans? Did you see the same video everyone else saw? It looked like the observers were keeping their distance on the other side of the sign even before the point blank bean bag shooting.

 

[tionico]

First off, I think you have been watching waaay too much tv.

If that were the case, and this bunch of kids was a violent gang causing trouble on MAX... where is the surveillance camera footage from inside the train?
A weapon was "reported", but where is it? Who had it?

There is a difference between being rowdy and disruptive and being a violent gang victimizing people. (btw, there really isnt anyone worth a bubblegum on MAX at that hour anyway, so who were they disturbing?)

SO where is the rest of the story? If it were really the case, why havent the officers come forward with some sort of evidence that this group, and this GIRL in particular was a threat to public safety? Im sure all of this would go away if they could show that this group/girl were armed and a threat to the public.
Wait, I forgot... their socialist commie commanders are suppressing that evidence, and the liberal media is not letting the officers be heard, right??

sorry, lads, I do not OWN a television set.

Read one of the early articles in this thread... there was a description of a large crowd (I seem to recall the number "about 150"). Miling in the streets, report of gun found connected with them. I don't spend much time in that part of Gresham any more, though I used to live not far away. Yet I've seen large numbers of toughs, milling about, looking for trouble. Late at night, rowdy, many drunk, gun on the scene.... go ahead, tell me that's god for the public safety. No, that's precisely the type of crowd gets tangled up in car vandalism, roughing up anyone caught in the area, breakins, "disturbing the peace".....

no frontal lobotomies called for... just young kids, as well as adults, being trained by some means to not be such nuisances.

And as to your video surveilance fotage.... little doubt it is available to those who need it. The cops aren't so much on about appeasing the public just now, the investigation will need evidence, and those tapes are, at this point, none of the public's business. The men on the street have three battles to fight... one, wiht law and order, two to stay alive, and three to appease the public's howls in protest, whilst not knowing the details. Watching their "trial by supposition" here, I can well imagine what the public are doing to them.

"WHATTT??? He SHOT a TWELVE YEAR OLD GIRL!!!????!!!!".

Well, yeah... just WHAT was she doing, where, when, and with whom? And what were the others she was with doing?

I see NO REASON to dispatch four cops to a Max station that hour of the night... other than that there is a problem large and serious enough to warrant such action. Rag on the cops all ya want.... I hope they DO go on strike. No cops on the streets, the punk gangs and druggies will play just like the moslem kids did in the burbs outside Paris two summers back. What was it, fifteen hundred cars trashed, buildings burned out, hundreds dead, the public endangered.... by very similarly constituted gangs of thugs who got a burr under their saddle blanket and went nuts. Who knows but that this one beanbag, approproately applied, might not be the thing settles back down a few of these kids gone wild.

And, as someone else mentioned, WHERE are their parents and training to be civilised members of society? I know people who've been victims of exactly this sort of crowd. WHY does this persist in a "nice city" like Portland? And why blame the cops sent out to slog through this sort of muck when they'd rather be sitting down, eating donuts, drinking a cup of coffee in a warm place? Get real.......