Please Give TCGC A Grade

[oasis618]

Zombie thread.

 

[sadiesassy]

Like:
It is close
It is relatively inexpensive
It is a nice facility – realizing it is still growing and improving ( Made some good road improvements)
Most Range Officers are nice

Areas for Improvement:

1. Orientation / Membership process – Long and done in a format that is not very informative – Actually learned more in the final section - tour : The process is a series of people who get up and talk - basically going through the range rules. Recommendation : Create a video ( Sight + Sound)- Then as you go through each sites rules - you can show the different ranges, Applicable rules, etc. Each person would have seen the ranges - hence no tour needed - at least it could be done by video. (ie: Join the 21st Century)

2. Range Rules: Poorly written with lots of different interpretations ( each Range officer has a different interpretation) So zero consistency. AS one lady told a Range Officer - “I can’t pick up brass when it is hot(Stupid to go out infront of every one), and according to you I cannot pick it up when cold. So when the **** can I pick up my brass” - The range rule book says I can pick up brass during Cease Fire.

3. Really geared to Weekend folks – since some ranges are used consistently by LE. Not saying it is wrong or bad – just reality .

4. Range certifications: It is interesting that to use a couple ranges - You need to go through a qualification course - But you cannot get range certified unless you enter a tournament. If you work weekends - You cannot enter a tournament. For Silhouette Range - If you want to shoot it you need to buy a book and enter a tournament - Why???
Recommendation: Sounds like you need a redefinition - If you qualify at a certification process - that should allow you to use the range regardless of if you enter a tournament. Or what is it that a tournament gives you that the certification process does not? ( Seems to be beauracracy)

 

[dmancornell]

I can't stand how the TCGC management suck up to LE. For example, they shoot 5.56 at the rimfire and the action ranges, and we're not allowed to... why exactly?

 

[coupeowner]

I have only been a member for a few months, but I have been out at least once a week since I joined. I love it. Spend most of my time at the pistol range and indoor range, but am looking forward to trying others out.

I don't have a problem with the chamber flags. To me they are "newbie flags" when I see somebody not using the chamber flag, they are typically also the ones to cross the yellow line on a cold range, be the last ones to recognize that everybody else is waiting for a cold range, and generally don't have a clue as to the other, more important rules. I know to stay clear.

A couple of things I would like? Classes for safety, shooting techniques, kids intro to guns (taught by a pro - not just DAD), intro to trap/skeet, etc. Maybe they are available - and I have just missed them. Oh, and the pistol range is looking pretty tired.

 

[SteelyDan]

Holy Smokes...haven't seen so many rules since grade school. Is all that really necessary? I am relatively inexperienced in the range/club concept but I never have seen so man different regulations!

 

[Hawaiian]

If they had an indoor pistol range for centerfire handguns, I would have signed up a long time ago.

 

[greydog111]

Holy Smokes...haven't seen so many rules since grade school. Is all that really necessary? I am relatively inexperienced in the range/club concept but I never have seen so man different regulations!

FYI. We are surrounded by subdivisions and industry. A constant battle is on to keep them from shutting us down. We must impose rules to keep the suit sharks at bay. I don't know of another shooting club that has all to offer that we do in an urban area. Rules are to keep jack holes from destroying all that we have built at TCGC over the last 50 years. Just deal with it or drive out to the coast range and make do. Greydog.

 

[Cougfan2]

I was a member for years and overall I really liked the range. The reason I changed to Douglas Ridge is that I have a CCW and I like to practice with my pistol at realistic defense ranges. The closest target carriers on the centerfire pistol range are at 25 yards. If the threat is 25 yards away, I am looking for cover unless they are shooting at me. I want to be able to practice at 7 and 10 yards. I couldn't do that at TCGC unless I wanted to get certified for the action range and attend a tounament which I had no desire to do. I'm OK with going thru certification safety training, but I just didn't get the tournament requirement.

At Douglas Ridge I can set my target carrier at any range I want. You can also shoot certerfire handgun on their indoor range.

 

[Siglvr]

I LOVE TRI COUNTRY GUN CLUB. A is the grade. Appreciate you asking this too.

What I love is getting in some range time on my lunch hour or right after work, and with the price of gas being what it is that it costs significantly less than driving out to the woods (where it might be raining anyway). Furthermore, I disliked putting lead and mercury into the watersheds folks drink out of (like Clackamas), and I know that the TC range contains that stuff where it won't wind up in peoples drinking water.

Remember, it's a club. 2 of the big things I love are: 1st) Idiots tend to be weeded out. They can show up next to you in the woods anywhere at random, but if they are total idiots at TCGC they will be 86ed in short order and you won't see them ever again. I've never been swept and I appreciate the range officers. They do tend to be brusk old dudes that snap at you, and like noted above I've been snapped at for having a flash hider on a 5.56 that was (incorrectly) thought to be a brake. Really a reminder to be down on the left when I show up with my 7.62 that has a brake

As far as the rules restricting full auto or rapid fire and LEOs getting preference, folks need to remember that your rounds are being fired close to house's, and the restrictions have been well thought out to eliminate that slight potential for harm for the benefit of us all. I'm fine with the rules as they are and believe that it is a benefit to me. I've full auto fired a lot of different weapons in my life and SOME of them are not easily aimed or controlled on the 4th-5th and on rounds no matter how good you think you are with it. Even heavy machine guns can get so smoky in front of you in short order that you can't see where you are aiming.

DISLIKES:
*I greatly dislike having to mail a check every year. Let me give you a credit card payment for the next 5 years (non-refundable is fine) or put it on yearly auto renewal till my CC expires and I can forget about it.

*A 10 yard line at the standard pistol range would be appreciated.

*Having a structured orientation where the rules are written and handed out would be of great assistance to start for new folks.

*I need to figure out the trap/sheet shooting thing you have now.

 

[sadiesassy]

Greydog,
I Do not mind rules - But the Range rules are some of the worse I have seen(Written and applied). No one should be proud of that- In 2 months I have seen 4 serious safety issue. That and it is applied differently -- everyone has a different interpretation. Ever notice they make exception - Ever notice the board members smoking on the black powder range( Hmmm board memeber OK -- others it is bad). So with out a change in attitude of the board- NOthing will change.

Think how much better it could be.

Example - No Pistols allowed on the Silhouette range but thern they talk about the pistol silhouettes? HuH?
Can only use the Patterning Board when the Skeet range is closed -- But nothing states when it is open or closed.

I thought this was a great response: I made the recommendation that they should put the newsletter out on email or on the website - save money ( Besides most of the newsletter should just be on line - never changes). . I was told "they had done that and it did not work - After you have been with the club for a year then you will conform to our ways."

I understand they have grown the site over 20 years - But Safety is POORly managed. I think they are too close to the situation to understand the problems.

Oh Yeah - I manage Safety Programs in the past - So I understand the issues. I also understand - either change and fix it, or some lawyer will take your money and make you fix it. Time to be proactive

FYI. We are surrounded by subdivisions and industry. A constant battle is on to keep them from shutting us down. We must impose rules to keep the suit sharks at bay. I don't know of another shooting club that has all to offer that we do in an urban area. Rules are to keep jack holes from destroying all that we have built at TCGC over the last 50 years. Just deal with it or drive out to the coast range and make do. Greydog.

 

[NoAim]

Example - No Pistols allowed on the Silhouette range but thern they talk about the pistol silhouettes? HuH?

No. They talk about pistol CALIBER silhouettes. Thus, a lever gun or something similar in a pistol caliber (.357, .38, .45, etc. etc.). Hitting pistol caliber target with a rifle caliber round will likely damage it. Thus the distinction.

Can only use the Patterning Board when the Skeet range is closed -- But nothing states when it is open or closed.

I think the skeet range is only open when supervised. Otherwise, it's closed.

 

[EZLivin]

I'd like to get feed back from TCGC members on what they like, don't like and what they want changed.All constructive comments are appreciated.

The good:

1) Emphasis on safety. The range officers are helpful if you are not doing something quite right (need the guidance/clarification at times with the many rules they have).
2) Lots of choices for ranges.
3) Yearly dues are reasonable.

Could use improvement:

1) Allow the use of self-healing polymer-type reactive targets at every action/cowboy bay. I was told to not use them at the "no steel" bays because "other members would think I am using steel targets and would complain." Polymer targets act like paper targets (bullets always pass through), so don't disallow them because of other members' ignorance.
2) Would like more bays at action/cowboy range that can utilize steel targets.
3) Would like 10yd line at general pistol range.
4) Would like indoor range to accommodate other pistol calibers.
5) Would like indoor range to have the ability to reset targets without going cold (similar to what Johnson Creek has).
6) 7.62x39 at the action/cowboy bays would be nice

 

[Otter]

I toured the facility a couple weekends ago and will be joining. Lots of things to like. A few things I would like to see:

1) 10 yard pistol range without having to jump through the hoops.
2) A range where you can shoot 100 and 200 yards where you don't have to load up all your stuff and move to another range.

I didn't think the rules or chamber flags were out of line, although I don't think chamber flags accomplish much. The gentleman who gave me the tour said some of the rules were not written very well and they were going to modify them. I'm not happy about the idea there are some goose stepping range officers though. I've seen enough of that at Four Corners where I'm currently a member. There are lots of ways to correct unwanted behavior without being an *** about it.

 

[SteelyDan]

No reason to get testy! I do drive out to the coast range and make due nicely. No overbearing-wanna-be-cop RO to police me and somehow I haven't shot myself yet! I understand the need to appease the neighbors, same thing at Isaac Walton League in Eugene...however that doesn't require a bunch of unnecessary red tape for people to enjoy the range. I'm just sayin....

 

[ronin223]

I would give it an F

I have been a member of TCGC for 4 years and never been a member of a range which makes you hate shooting so much with all the idiotic rules which change depending upon who is the RSO.

The RSO need to be trained to make sure they stick the the same rules and not make them as they go.

BS on all the rules protecting TCGC from closure, most are just paranoid crap which I have never seen done at any other range.

The way semi auto gun owners are treated like terrorists and limited to only 10 benches on the 100 yard range, I know it says for muzzle brakes only but some RSO see anything on the front of the muzzle as a brake.

They should also limit magnum calibers to the muzzle brake 10 benches just so show they are really doing this to limit the effects on other shooters and these rules were not in place to harass semi auto users.

They even put an illegal device on bench 3 to 'decrease noise' but have not removed it yet.

You cannot shoot standing at 200 yards. You can only shoot standing at 100 yards.

I really hate the club and was seriously going to quit but will give it one more year as I try out the action pits

BTW really hate people who smoke cigars in the action pics, just kidding jason.

 

[capdek]

Currently to use the Action bays you need to attend a certification class. Then your good to go. I understand it seems like a waste of time to some people who don't know what the class covers. I help teach the class and by the end of the day 99% of the students are happy and felt they learned valuable skills. We get feed back from evey student and one of the most common comments aside from "good class" is requests for more classes.

What if you're already an experienced USPSA or IDPA member? Do you still have to take the class and attend a match before you can get action range certified? It seems to me if you are already an experienced USPSA or IDPA shooter, then demonstrating this at a local match should be sufficient to get certified. Unless of course the real reason for the class is to generate an additional $40 for the club. An acquaintance at work is thinking about joining TCGC, and he was told the certification class costs $40.

I joined TCGC back in Feb of 2001. I did not attend any class to get certified. As a USPSA member, I simply attended one of the USPSA matches and, based on my experience, I was able to get certified. Is this still the case, or does everyone have to attend the class before you can be certified? My friend from work would like to know TCGC policy on this.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I don't know. You'd have to call and ask on that.

I was a little bummed that I didn't get an action range sticker after the ARC class. I thought that was the only requirement, not including going to a match. Not a huge deal since I want to try matches. The catch-22 is that I need to practice at the Action Range to be any good for a match and now I will be entering a match a true, unpracticed noob.

For me it was well worth the $40, excellent class. For you, it is probably redundant.

 

[capdek]

I am honestly not sure if the class would be redundant - it depends on what material is covered. If the focus is on safe gun handling according to USPSA/IPSC/IDPA/SASS rules, then it would probably be redundant in my case. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider taking the class to improve my safe gun handling skills if there's something more I could learn. I would simply prefer the class to be voluntary if you are already qualified based on previous training and experience.

I have taken numerous courses over the years since I'm a firm believer in safety training. Even though I've been shooting USPSA/SASS matches for over 10 years now, when I got my CHL, I decided to take the defensive handgun courses over at the Oregon Firearms Academy - for the simple reason that the skills needed to compete in USPSA/SASS matches - although helpful - are quite different than the skills needed for true defensive handgun competency. The next class I would like to take would be focused on basic 3-gun skills. I am quite competent with my cowboy guns, but I have never shot my AR and semi-auto shotgun in an action match setting. I would like to learn some of the basic skills needed to compete competently in modern 3-gun matches.

I think any individual wanting action range certification should be required to demonstrate safe gun handling on the action range before they can become certified. The ultimate goal is to ensure safety. That being said, if an individual has already taken a class at a different club, and has been competing in USPSA/IDPA/SASS matches for some time, and has now decided to join TCGC, they should be able to contact the club director for one of these shooting disciplines and arrange to qualify for action range certification by a qualified range officer after demonstrating safe gun handling skills during one of the local monthly matches. Just my opinion.

 

[actionflies]

The indoor pistol range would be nice but they would have to completely rebuild the building to contain a stray bullet. I'm sure we have a handful of idiot that are members and will do something stupid. Look at the pistol range benches, there are bullets holes and some dumbass manage to put a bullet at the back wall facing the parking lot.

 

[capdek]

Oh, and as far as my grade for TCGC, I would have to say A-. I've been a member for over 10 years and my only beef with the club is:
1) the lack of a 10 yard target line on the standard pistol range that would allow people like my wife to work on their defensive handgun accuracy at distances less than 25 yards.
2) a condescending, holier-than-thou attitude held by some of the ROs.
And I suppose an indoor, center-fire pistol range would be nice too!

As an example of 2, I once brought a friend of mine to the 100 yard range so we could shoot our S&W M&P 15 rifles. I had bought the M&P 15 for my wife and wanted to test it out. My friend had just gotten new Troy sights for his M&P 15 and he wanted to sight the gun in. Since I shoot rifle and shotgun left-handed (I forced myself to learn to shoot pistol right-handed), my buddy set up on the station immediately to my left so I could keep an eye on him while shooting. As we were setting up, the RO casually walked over and said "What are you shooting today? Oh a nice little AR." That was her first mistake - she said it in such a condescending manner. I mentioned that it was my wife's gun and I was there to test it out. I kid-you-not, the RO said "You're wife's gun - right." Holy-cow, I couldn't believe the way she said that! Then she said "Is this your guest?" I said "Yes". The RO said "You should be to the left of your guest - otherwise you won't be able to watch him." I said "As a matter of fact, I'm positioned to his right because I do want to keep an eye on him since I shoot left-handed." She just smiled and walked away at that point.
In truth, this RO was a real jerk. She came over to check us out, tried to get in with a little condescending small-talk, then hammer me with a rule I already knew and was following. I want to give TCGC ROs the benefit of the doubt - that they are sincere and want to be friendly and helpful - and most are generally nice, but a fair number do seem to be on a bit of a power-trip. The next time an RO comes up to me and starts making small-talk like that, I am tempted to say "Am I violating any rule? If not, go away and leave me alone." That's pretty sad.