Please Give TCGC A Grade

[Lange22250]

I'd like to get feed back from TCGC members on what they like, don't like and what they want changed.
All constructive comments are appreciated.
Jason

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[4Freedom]

I am looking forward to going back to shoot there. What I woudl like is that some of their range officers would not force people with flash hiders to shoot at the ends of the range. This is absolutey absurd. A few of the officers claim that flash hiders and muzzle brakes, look the same, so therefore, you cannot shoot a gun that has one on any but the ending benches. Flash hiders don't cause any louder noises, so I just cannot understand why the one officer at the range complained to me about it. Actually, the other range officers I met didn't say a word about it.

Another thing I like is an indoor range where you can shoot higher caliber pistols. The 25 yard range for pistol shooting is not very useful a newer shooter like me. However, I have been ceritifed to use the action range, so perhaps I will get my wish after all. I haven't yet checked out the action range or no what to expect from it.

Despite that, I love the club and like how friendly and safety-oriented the people are there. Also, it offers a wide variety of different ranges, most I have yet to experience, since I am new there.

 

[Outrider]

I am not a member but I've been turned off to it by the things I have heard about it. Perhaps you can clear up a few things...

What's the deal with chamber flags? I have been a member at other ranges and clubs (outside of OR) and I've never been at one that required chamber flags.

Also what is the thing about needing to shoot in matches to use the action range? -I've shot in matches in the past (IDPA, GSSF, SASS, etc.), but I really hate getting up early in the morning to go to a match I don't care about just so I can use the one range that would provide the place I want to use so I can work on my skills. Is there some other way to qualify aside from getting up early and wasting a bunch of rounds?

Lastly, I have heard that TCGC does not allow select fire. I realize it's probably not high on your priority list but one of the things I enjoyed about belonging to a club in Las Vegas was the opportunity to use select fire guns. I knew a lot of NFA people in Vegas and it really is an interesting part of the shooting community. Providing a place for NFA owners would be very helpful. I know of ranges and clubs in other states that do allow it and it's not hard to make a workable policy that would permit their use. However, if you guys get weirded out by rifles with flash hiders and muzzle brakes, I can imagine that TCGC is probably the wrong place for me...

 

[JC Weaponry]

I have been a member for a few years now.

PROS:

1. Price is Right
2. Location is Right
3. Great Action Bays
4. Love the indoor 22lr range
5. Love the new lights on the 100yrd
6. Good Job on the RO's new attitudes. (great change)

Cons:

1. Long wait time for Action Certification (VERY Long)
2. Need Lights in Action Range, 200yrd and Pistol Bay
3. Indoor Centerfire Pistol would be great.
4. (Full Auto Pit Eventually?)


I think things have been great the last year, and I've noticed a good change in the RO's over the last few months.

Thank you again for taking the time to ask people.

 

[the4thshake]

The place is great...A+. It is a well organized facility with plenty to offer.

I would like to see more lights on the ranges. The lights on the general range are great for the 50yd line but the 100yd is still pretty dim. Lights on all of the range would help extend shooting time in the winter months.

How about a 10yd line on the general pistol range?

An action pit set up for rifle calibers would be a winner as well.

I love the shotgun events but can't make it as often as I would like. It would be great to have access to more then just the manual spring trap at times when there isn't an organized event.

 

[Lange22250]

I am not a member but I've been turned off to it by the things I have heard about it. Perhaps you can clear up a few things...

What's the deal with chamber flags? I have been a member at other ranges and clubs (outside of OR) and I've never been at one that required chamber flags.

Also what is the thing about needing to shoot in matches to use the action range? -I've shot in matches in the past (IDPA, GSSF, SASS, etc.), but I really hate getting up early in the morning to go to a match I don't care about just so I can use the one range that would provide the place I want to use so I can work on my skills. Is there some other way to qualify aside from getting up early and wasting a bunch of rounds?

Lastly, I have heard that TCGC does not allow select fire. I realize it's probably not high on your priority list but one of the things I enjoyed about belonging to a club in Las Vegas was the opportunity to use select fire guns. I knew a lot of NFA people in Vegas and it really is an interesting part of the shooting community. Providing a place for NFA owners would be very helpful. I know of ranges and clubs in other states that do allow it and it's not hard to make a workable policy that would permit their use. However, if you guys get weirded out by rifles with flash hiders and muzzle brakes, I can imagine that TCGC is probably the wrong place for me...

The chamber flags really bugged me in the beginning as well. I came around after the two incidents which sparked the rule were described to me. It makes it easy for the RO to check all the guns on the benches from a distance. It is also a good thing at matches. I have personally had an incident where a live round was left in the chamber and I caught it when the RO had called it a clear chamber. I know of at least one other incident where the same procedure would have saved a repair bill to a shooters trunk.

Currently to use the Action bays you need to attend a certification class. Then your good to go. I understand it seems like a waste of time to some people who don't know what the class covers. I help teach the class and by the end of the day 99% of the students are happy and felt they learned valuable skills. We get feed back from evey student and one of the most common comments aside from "good class" is requests for more classes.
I would also say that if you are taking the match seriously, and having a good time, you are improving you skills. Additional you have a benchmark to compare yourself against over time. TCGC has a lot of really good shooters, I think most notable is R. Loenard. He is the Speed Steel directors son, 16 years old and finished 15th at the Steel Challenge last year.

On FA. The only range appropriate for FA use at this time is the Action range. It is a blue sky range, hence the reason for additional safety training to use it, and it has relatively low berms. Please understand that TCGC is surrounded by civilization on all sides and all it would take is one round to shut it down. Having been to FA shoots and seen the number of rounds going high, particularly when a newbie is handed a gun, I don't see it as an acceptable risk. Would you?

 

[Outrider]

Currently to use the Action bays you need to attend a certification class. Then your good to go. I understand it seems like a waste of time to some people who don't know what the class covers.

I don't mind taking a safety class. Like I said in my earlier post, I was writing what I had heard and I wanted to hear what you had to say about the situation. Taking a safety class for a new member seems absolutely fine. What I had heard and didn't like was having to attend a match I didn't want to attend.

Matches can be worthwhile. I have done competitive shooting on and off over the years and I am in a pistol league but I don't like the idea of attending a match where the sole purpose is to be able to qualify to use the action range. If I'm there for a safety briefing and that's what I need to learn the rules, that's fine. If I'm there to pretend to compete so I can check off the box of being an "action shooter" then it's meaningless.

On FA. The only range appropriate for FA use at this time is the Action range. It is a blue sky range, hence the reason for additional safety training to use it, and it has relatively low berms. Please understand that TCGC is surrounded by civilization on all sides and all it would take is one round to shut it down. Having been to FA shoots and seen the number of rounds going high, particularly when a newbie is handed a gun, I don't see it as an acceptable risk. Would you?

I am glad to hear you allow select fire guns on the range. As before it was something that I wanted to discuss since I had heard you did not.

Obviously, it would be bad to have a round go high. If someone sent any round over the berm I expect it would have the potential to create a tragedy.

I have been to FA shoots as well and while I agree a newbie can easily have a shot or two get away from him or her, part of the deal is making sure the range is designed and built to accommodate certain types of mistakes. If you build a range that only works if everyone is perfect in their gun handling, it's doomed. We know people will make mistakes regardless of their experience and training level. The ones that think they are too good to ever make a mistake are the ones that are tempting fate.

It sounds like the berms are inappropriately low. Will this be addressed or improved? -Both outdoor ranges I went to in Vegas had relatively high berms and FA shoots were not a problem for certain parts of the range that were set up for it.

Since I am not a member, I have not been to TCGC yet. I understand you have to be cognizant of your surroundings and be a good neighbor. One of the outdoor ranges in Vegas was getting encroached on by home builders. That said, with those ranges, the bigger problem with shots leaving the range was from the high power / long distance shooters and the skeet shooters. Fortunately, one of the two ranges has a mountain as the backstop on the long distance range. I had watched a shooter make a mistake with a rifle chambered in .50 BMG. He had a round sail high and that could have been a tragedy. The mountain, of course, stopped it.

 

[Lange22250]

I am glad to hear you allow select fire guns on the range. As before it was something that I wanted to discuss since I had heard you did not.

Before any misunderstandings develop

TCGC does not allow full auto fire on any ranges at any time.

I'm sorry if I was not entirely clear in my response, I was attempting to explain the reason behind the prohibition. you may use a weapon with a fun switch, just not in FA mode.

The action range berms are slated to be raised, but as usual permitting issues are slowing the process. In the long term all of the action ranges are slated to be moved down into an area which is currently being excavated. The new ranges will have berms 80-100 ft tall, but that may be a long time off.

 

[Outrider]

Before any misunderstandings develop

TCGC does not allow full auto fire on any ranges at any time.

I don't need big bold letters shouting it's not allowed. I had started off with the belief that it was not allowed. However, you wrote:

On FA. The only range appropriate for FA use at this time is the Action range.

A statement like that would lead one to think that FA was allowed. I was going with what you said, that "the only appropriate range for FA use at this time is the Action Range." What you wrote used present tense, hence the misunderstanding. -With the clarification, I get it.

Thanks for the info. Good luck.

 

[greydog111]

Again---- You do not have to compete in a match to be action range certified. Only take the class!! The rules are for your safety and mine. If you do not like them, find anothe club that offers the level of activities we offer.
Spot on for the chamber flags. Your safety again. It only takes being swept by some inattentive clown's muzzel once for you to appreciate the range officer. They are volunteers. Cut them a little slack if once in a while they get cranky. You may have been the one that caused it!

Greydog, member since 1996

 

[onearmedswordsman]

I've been a member for 1 year. Spent most of the time at the 100yd gen use range. used the indoor rimfire a couple of times, and the 200/300/600 range only once, and it is a blast. I've heard there is nothing better in the NW.

I was originally put of the a pistol range rule requiring single hand shooting only so I never bring my handguns. Last Sunday I checked the range and everyone there was ignoring the rule. So, I guess that's the next range I want to test.

I recently got a lever action rifle and can't wait to get certified on their silhouette range.

In short, if not far from your home, and you can afford it, go for it. Feels like tons of rules at first, like 10MPH limit on the dirt road. I got stopped once by a female RO going 20. Will feel a bit overwhelming. But will slowly get used to them.

 

[Outrider]

Again---- You do not have to compete in a match to be action range certified. Only take the class!! The rules are for your safety and mine. If you do not like them, find anothe club that offers the level of activities we offer.

Greydog- If you read the thread instead of hitting the reply button, you will see where Jason explained that it was a class and not a match and where I said fine and agreed that having a class makes sense. -Seriously, before chiding someone, read the full exchange. Jason and I have gone through every point now and understand each other. I dare say we're in agreement on the main points i.e. Safety class for the Action Range = Makes sense. Higher berms needed for a FA range = Absolutely makes sense.

Spot on for the chamber flags. Your safety again. It only takes being swept by some inattentive clown's muzzel once for you to appreciate the range officer. They are volunteers. Cut them a little slack if once in a while they get cranky. You may have been the one that caused it!

As an individual who has been a member at other ranges and clubs, I think the chamber flags while well-intentioned are silly. I'm not going to feel better about "some inattentive clown" sweeping me even if he has a chamber flag in his rifle. Poor gun handling is poor gun handling.

As someone who is not a member, has never been to TCGC, has had no interaction with TCGC Range Officers, and is considering whether to go and become a member, I am entitled to ask about a policy I have not seen anywhere else. You've been a member since '96, are familiar with it, and you like it. Great. He's not trying to convince you. Jason is explaining it to me, someone who has had a different frame of reference.

I realize every place has its silliness where new policies come in and old ones go out. Who knows, maybe chamber flags will become the rage at every range in the U.S. -To me, it's a quirk. Every club has them, it is just a matter of what the club chooses to focus on.

For example, one range I was a member at (not TCGC) insisted on members wearing their membership badges in a holder that hung around their necks at all times (like the ones you see at trade shows). They were totally stuck on the idea that they wanted to be readily observe who was and was not a member on the range. It was not good enough to have the badge pinned to a hat or range bag. It seemed like a legitimate request at the time they made it. Unfortunately, the policy directly led to someone to an individual's muzzle getting caught on the holder during the draw (the badge was fluttering around due to the wind) and the member shot himself (blowing off his thumb). It's the old unintended consequences thing. You mandate whatever practice you want and it gets in the way of something else or causes some other problem you had not anticipated.

My concern (although not stated above) was practicing transitions from carbine to pistol while engaging targets on the Action Range. Someone had told me was whatever firearm was not being used had to have a chamber flag which, if true, would make it difficult to practice what I want to practice. When you are considering a range or club it is fair to ask prior to applying for membership if it meets your needs.

 

[LiquidSilver]

Is there some potential of re-evaluating the calibers allowed in the action bays to include .223 or is that seen as a berm height issue as well? What is the long term estimated completion of the new area to occupy the new quarry? Years, decades?

 

[Phillyfan]

So you can only shoot pistols one handed?

 

[Lange22250]

Is there some potential of re-evaluating the calibers allowed in the action bays to include .223 or is that seen as a berm height issue as well? What is the long term estimated completion of the new area to occupy the new quarry? Years, decades?

The lower range complex has been just about ready to start any day now, for the last 10 years. I personally feel that 10-20 years is not out of the question at this point.
I would personally love to have it start tomorrow. The time table is dictated by the demand for the gravel excavation out of it which is very low currently.

 

[Phillyfan]

I was originally put of the a pistol range rule requiring single hand shooting only so I never bring my handguns.

This is why I ask.

 

[warnerwh]

I'm a member of DRRC but have been out to TCGC a number of times as my best friend is a member and has been for I'm guesstimating 20 years or so. I've never heard him complain about anything and every time I have been there nothing bothered me at all. I haven't spent enough time for a grade but I've enjoyed shooting there whenever we go there. I'd be a member there if it were closer than DRRC.

 

[Lange22250]

So you can only shoot pistols one handed?

You can use both hands on the conventional pistol range. It is intended for target type activities so there is a restriction against rapid fire, that's what the action bays are for.

 

[TAT2D]

My concern (although not stated above) was practicing transitions from carbine to pistol while engaging targets on the Action Range. Someone had told me was whatever firearm was not being used had to have a chamber flag which, if true, would make it difficult to practice what I want to practice.

I'm guessing the intent is that guns behind the firing line (shooter's extras, friends) should be flagged. The rules do talk about guns (plural) being loaded on the firing line, just prior to shooting. Here's the rules: <broken link removed>

Also, check out a 'Cowboy Action' match. Four (?) guns in rapid succession, and a neat way to bypass the IPSC class waiting line for the action-range sticker.

MrB

 

[Burt Gummer]

One of the posts above is incorrect. To get certified for using the Action Bays you must take ARC class ... PLUS complete one match. Get the Match Director to sign off after the match and ... THEN you send in the signed form and get your Action range sticker. The first Saturday of the month training alone is not enough.