Planning for societal collapse. Guns or gold?

[Just Jim]

http://www.kitco.com/market/

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http://www.apmex.com/

Just a little info

jj

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[PlayboyPenguin]

Here is a question for someone in the know. If you had bought $1000 worth of gold and $1000 worth of .45acp in 1999 which would be more valuable now? How about if you did the same in 1989?

 

[willseeker]

Here is a question for someone in the know. If you had bought $1000 worth of gold and $1000 worth of .45acp in 1999 which would be more valuable now? How about if you did the same in 1989?

Dont know. About the same?
Does anybody know what the proportion of gold to silver is and has been over the last 200 years.
If we find out that silver is undervalued in relation to its partner gold, in historical terms, silver may be the choice to buy along with guns. Maybe?

 

[Trlsmn]

Gold spiked to $850 an ounce in 1980 during the Carter era and was back down to $300 an ounce 2 years later in the Regan admin, something to think about for the people that could be jumping on the Gold rush.

 

[Ding]

Guns will get you gold anytime.They will get you anything you want or need anytime,anywhere.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Gold spiked to $850 an ounce in 1980 during the Carter era and was back down to $300 an ounce 2 years later in the Regan admin, something to think about for the people that could be jumping on the Gold rush.

I remember a guy on one of the news shows in the 90's talking about how gold is a big money maker only for a small group of people. A small group of people control so much of the gold that they make a fortune driving up the price and selling, then driving down the price and buying it back. He was talking about how most of the gold in the US has been in and out of the same families hands hundreds of times. He called it the "fool's gold principle" or something like that.

He also talked about how so many economies of the world were leaving the gold standard in favor of more usable commodities. He was talking about precious metals that are used in high tech being the new gold within the next few decades since gold has no real value other than an artificial one.

 

[Monkeyman]

Gold spiked to $850 an ounce in 1980 during the Carter era and was back down to $300 an ounce 2 years later in the Regan admin, something to think about for the people that could be jumping on the Gold rush.

That was more about the Hunt brothers, E. L. and Nelson Bunker, who tried to corner the futures market in silver. Gold and silver prices move somewhat in tandem, and that gold rally, while sparked in part by fears of inflation, was a tad overheated. Though many futures traders I know made enough right there to retire in their twenties.

As I mentioned on another thread, the difference here is the spike in monetary supply. This condition is unique in our history, and what will happen as a result in anyone's guess. Most informed guesses would tend to the negative, I think. The solution is to let the bubble deflate, which would pretty much stop economic growth for years. Politically unpalatable.

PP's comments about commodities are spot on as well; the problem is the buying up of available stocks (wheat, oil, copper) and the means of production (farms, refineries, mines) by inflation-averse investors and governments is that bubbles are forming in all the above as well. Too many dollars chasing too few goods.

It all leads to hyperinflation. Which brings us back to gold and lead. . .

 

[56kninja]

Food, water, guns. All of these things are good. I don't buy the whole gold thing. It seems to be some sort of business tactic. I bet if you really look into it, the same people that say "Buy gold, it's worth so much in a collapse" probably make a lot of money off of selling gold.

Gold's a good investment, but with the ammount of guns, (and knives, hammers, axes) in our society, it's worthless when you have nothing to defend against thugs. Maybe if you friend gives them all his gold when they come for him, he'll buy his life.

 

[Riot]

Here is a question for someone in the know. If you had bought $1000 worth of gold and $1000 worth of .45acp in 1999 which would be more valuable now? How about if you did the same in 1989?

Your anology is a little off...we're stocking this stuff in anticipation of a economic crash. Tecnically, if you don't have any bullets you might as well just give away the gold you have- so they're worth both their weight equally in my opinion.

You can't have gold without bullets...

 

[torpedoman]

I was'nt aware that I could not stock up on both. and silver also. The currencies of the world are all backed by NOTHING. they are basicily worthless except the guy you are giving it to in exchange for goods or services thinks it is worth something. The government is trying to drive the dollar down to make it cheaper to pay off massive unsubstainable debt. the precious metals play is not betting on a shtf condition but rather a hedge against the huge inflation that is to come. The people who say that it is a play againt the dollar do not try to explain why it is going up in relation to every currency world wide. The reason for the big run up was that was when it was made Legal for Americans to own it again and a peroid of huge inflation and 12&#37; intrest rates. (Inflation adjusted it is 2000 dollar gold to equal it) Your money has lost 90% of its value since the metal standard was ended, now you make 200 a week instead of 20 but everything you buy costs 10 times as much so you havent really made anymore but the government has.

 

[Just Jim]

Guns will get you gold anytime.They will get you anything you want or need anytime,anywhere.

Alot of outlaws have said the same thing You might get it but other outlaws will kill you for or the good guys
Like someone here said, gold that can be used for barter is what you want in my opinion.

jj

 

[SonicBlue03]

Ask your friend what the rate of return on gold has been over the past 30 years. Then when he shows you pull out one of your guns and take all his gold.

 

[Ding]

I'm an outlaw at heart.I take gold and trade it for guns,girls and food,then hold ya up for what I just traded ya for and have the women carry it back to my hide out....

 

[MissJ]

It seems to me that you would want to have a little bit of everything that might be useful combined with a whole bunch of food and ammo.

things that might be useful:
* medications (ibuprofen, penicillin, benadryl)
* vitamins
* alchohol
* tobacco
* outdoors/camping equipment
* fuel (wood, propane, coal, whatever)
* precious metals and stones

I think that to "diversify" your post-armageddon portfolio is an excellent idea You want to be prepared for any situation. If we're talkin Zombies or nuclear holocoust, gold might not be too handy to have around. But, political unrest? Gold might get you and your family smuggled across an important border.

 

[crosse]

definitely guns not that big of an issue. Pistols and ammo are required to sleep peacefully. Maybe a shotgun and a couple simple rifles.
in case of a societal collapse (which I don't believe will ever happen) maybe an economic collapse but not societal.

food, water, and community. these three things will help establish a base.
now food can be canned, but its ideal to have your own land or greenhouse.
water is multi-layered. irrigation. toiletries (where is your piss and bubblegum gonna go, its a hazard and will cause disease just hanging about). how often are you bathing? Where are you going to put excess water? these are things to consider. clean clothes, clean towels.
people are important in establishing your "force" armed or not, outsiders are less likely to outright steal from a real tight community of 40 with crowbars and hammers than 3 with guns. how about that community of 40 with 10 guns vs. 3 guys with 10 guns?

also having a gun can spur more conflict than not. even if societal collapse occurs, I'm still going to carry concealed. I want to be the last guy the baddies want to focus on.

john steinbeck once said, "the mind is the final weapon, all else is supplemental" I remember that any time I am in any dangerous situation.

 

[Blackfeather7]

Silver has always been "poor man's gold" and it still is. Gold is an investment vehicle and a store of wealth for those who have mega bucks. Silver is for the rest of us. It is way undervalued today in light of the old ratio of 16:1. Currently it takes about 60 oz of silver to buy 1 oz of gold, so it has a lot of room to go up. I think we will see $180 an oz silver before we see $18,000 an oz gold.

It is also more negotiable in a society suffering from an economic breakdown. Most people don't know that there is actually less silver above ground today than gold. Silver gets used up in many industrial and medical technologies. I've heard that there are some bogus gold bars out there, but what I have read indicates that they are mostly huge investment grade 400 oz bars. Silver in one oz American Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs are a very safe investment and real money if things do break down.

Most people can't shoot more than two guns at a time. Unless you are buying high end, rare collectibles they are a depreciating asset whereas silver (and gold) just keep getting more valuable. Silver is money, always has been, always will be. Guns are tools to protect your family, your home, your goods and your money. You need enough of them to do that, more is just an expensive hobby.

Personally if I had $100,000 I'd buy some more ammo for my dozen guns, maybe a few thousand dollars worth, put another $5000 in food and survival supplies, but $90,000 would go into silver at today's price of around $18. an oz.

Buy the way, fyi, the best and most trustworthy way to buy silver or gold is an outfit called APMEX (American Precious Metals Exchange in Edmond OK) You can buy and sell online at apmex.com This company is the best out there. Your local coin dealer will screw you when you buy and when you come in to sell. I have had nothing but good experiences dealing with APMEX for the last ten years. My worst experience was with Northwest Territorial Mint in Auburn Washington. Avoid them like the plague.

 

[willseeker]

Silver has always been "poor man's gold" and it still is. Gold is an investment vehicle and a store of wealth for those who have mega bucks. Silver is for the rest of us. It is way undervalued today in light of the old ratio of 16:1. Currently it takes about 60 oz of silver to buy 1 oz of gold, so it has a lot of room to go up. I think we will see $180 an oz silver before we see $18,000 an oz gold.

It is also more negotiable in a society suffering from an economic breakdown. Most people don't know that there is actually less silver above ground today than gold. Silver gets used up in many industrial and medical technologies. I've heard that there are some bogus gold bars out there, but what I have read indicates that they are mostly huge investment grade 400 oz bars. Silver in one oz American Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs are a very safe investment and real money if things do break down.

Most people can't shoot more than two guns at a time. Unless you are buying high end, rare collectibles they are a depreciating asset whereas silver (and gold) just keep getting more valuable. Silver is money, always has been, always will be. Guns are tools to protect your family, your home, your goods and your money. You need enough of them to do that, more is just an expensive hobby.

Personally if I had $100,000 I'd buy some more ammo for my dozen guns, maybe a few thousand dollars worth, put another $5000 in food and survival supplies, but $90,000 would go into silver at today's price of around $18. an oz.

Buy the way, fyi, the best and most trustworthy way to buy silver or gold is an outfit called APMEX (American Precious Metals Exchange in Edmond OK) You can buy and sell online at apmex.com This company is the best out there. Your local coin dealer will screw you when you buy and when you come in to sell. I have had nothing but good experiences dealing with APMEX for the last ten years. My worst experience was with Northwest Territorial Mint in Auburn Washington. Avoid them like the plague.

Blackfeather7, you're right! The proportion of value between silver and gold has historically been 15 to 1. It's now around 70 to 80 to 1.
It may be that gold is-a-commin'-down, however; buying a little silver now might be a good move. Anybody lend me a dollar?

 

[Just Jim]

An ounce of gold is what, over $1100 and an ounce of silver is $18. In a SHTF and you got to move, which is more easy to carry? You got to carry five pounds of silver to equal one ounce of gold in value. Silver is for barter Gold is for running and hiding.

Just a thought

jj

 

[willseeker]

An ounce of gold is what, over $1100 and an ounce of silver is $18. In a SHTF and you got to move, which is more easy to carry? You got to carry five pounds of silver to equal one ounce of gold in value. Silver is for barter Gold is for running and hiding.

Just a thought

jj

You're right JJ. Silver would be used to buy everyday supplies and hopefully if SHTF, it wouldn't be more than a few days or weeks that we would be without essentials.
Gold might be used to buy property or a home, but you would still need smaller currency every day.
As someone posted earlier, it's hard to buy a loaf of bread with $1000 of gold.

 

[Blackfeather7]

Silver went up by over .72 an oz last night as the dollar continues to tank.