National Pistol Brace rule Dropped!

ilikegunspdx · Apr 26, 2023

CamoDeafie said:
Real questions. If by some amazing divine intervention; this Joint Resolution passes both House and Senate.... and it's not vetoed by Biden (is that even possible, becoming law if not signed, and what's the veto-proof threshold?); what would this mean? I see one channel keeps calling it a repeal of the ruling but since it was never passed as law through Congress in the first place... what is it really? What I could see, "Congress disapproval of final ruling regarding pistol braces"; but i don't seem to see anything saying it's nullified and unenforceable, at least not on a quick look-see?

Supposing it actually voids and nullifies the ruling... what about those who have registered; is the ATF gonna have to request standard $200 payments? Or what?

I don't know the answer but for my brain I like to keep it simple. If an injunction or congress shuts it down the effect is the same, atf has to follow that. That would mean all new and pending applications under the special rule would be wiped out. I assume the ones that are already approved will still be valid and no new $200 payment. For me it's primarily an issue of timing (assuming an injunction, lawsuit, or congress shuts them down), which comes first an approval or a shut down of the rule. This also assumes that if congress shuts it down FJB doesn't want to go to war with congress somehow and tell atf to keep going.

nwslopoke · Apr 26, 2023

Just to be that guy, if you use the option to turn your AR pistol into a 16" rifle, previously, I thought you had to go through a 4473 to reclassify it. Now, depending on what state you live in, that might be impossible or you'll have to wait weeks or months to go through a background check.

If you live in Wa, not that I agree with it, they could argue you're bringing in a new gun.

Now, if the ATF gets the spanking they deserve and Brandon realizes China, Russia, Sudan, Mexico, ect, are slightly more pressing than a piece of plastic, this could go away until 2024.

ilikegunspdx · Apr 26, 2023

nwslopoke said:
Just to be that guy, if you use the option to turn your AR pistol into a 16" rifle, previously, I thought you had to go through a 4473 to reclassify it. Now, depending on what state you live in, that might be impossible or you'll have to wait weeks or months to go through a background check.

If you live in Wa, not that I agree with it, they could argue you're bringing in a new gun.

Now, if the ATF gets the spanking they deserve and Brandon realizes China, Russia, Sudan, Mexico, ect, are slightly more pressing than a piece of plastic, this could go away until 2024.

I don't think you have to do a 4473 but I'm no expert. Per atf, the purpose of the 4473 is for a background check and to record a transaction. I'm not aware of anything regarding classifying pistol as a rifle. Also you can turn it back into a pistol at any time so that would also show you don't have to do a 4473.

CamoDeafie · Apr 26, 2023

nwslopoke said:
Just to be that guy, if you use the option to turn your AR pistol into a 16" rifle, previously, I thought you had to go through a 4473 to reclassify it.

Actually no. This was settled with the Thompson Center Contender firearm series case.

United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Co., 504 U.S. 505 (1992).

www.law.cornell.edu

According to this decision; as long as the combination does not result in a SBR configuration, you can go <16" barreled no stock Pistol to 16"+ rifle with stock, and back to pistol with no stock; provided you do not assemble the parts into a SBR configuration.

So; it would seem that if your AR pistol has a carbine buffer tube for the brace, if you put a 16"+ barreled upper, you can then put a regular carbine stock on that specific lower and it doesn't need any regulationary action.

however; if it started out as a rifle, THE ATF still holds that once a rifle, always a rifle

meaning you cannot go "rifle to pistol then to rifle" without violating the NFA because of the whole "made from a rifle or shotgun" thing

Edit. That case back in 1991ish alone should have resulted in the removal of SBRs from the NFA but no...

WestCoastEOD · Apr 27, 2023

It's impossible to listen to this debate without SMH. I'm a small(very small) multiple business owner who sea-lawyers his way through accounting, contracts and most annoyingly, tax filings. I tried to hire out my taxes, but when you ask any X number of CPAs the costs and best way to handle a tax situation, you will get X number of conflicting answers and an expensive bid to do what they obviously dont know exactly how to do. The ATF rulemaking dimwittery is now starting to compete for lunacy with this economic/social engineering IRS code, but hey, at least it's all driven by the prevailing political winds!

Reperio · Apr 27, 2023

WestCoastEOD said:
It's impossible to listen to this debate without SMH. I'm a small(very small) multiple business owner who sea-lawyers his way through accounting, contracts and most annoyingly, tax filings. I tried to hire out my taxes, but when you ask any X number of CPAs the costs and best way to handle a tax situation, you will get X number of conflicting answers and an expensive bid to do what they obviously dont know exactly how to do. The ATF rulemaking dimwittery is now starting to compete for lunacy with this economic/social engineering IRS code, but hey, at least it's all driven by the prevailing political winds!

The term "expert" has been highly overrated for several decades. Fast forward to the participation trophy generations, and you have an all time high of useless and ineffective workers in all vocations.

As a local business owner, I can relate. Even if the current bar wasn't set so low, it isn't that hard to wear 12 different hats and get the job(s) done well.

This same decay pervades the courts, municipalities, and enforcement agencies. And that before sprinkling ideology idiocy on top.

Howard1955 · Apr 29, 2023

eustace_stelio · May 8, 2023

So is it already illegal for a pistol brace to be on a pistol ar? Or can I still shoot it until the amnesty period is up?

Thinking about going up to marys peak or beaver damn rock pit and wouldn't mind shooting my pistol 300 blk out. But if it's already illegal I'll swap out the 7.5" upper for my 16" upper.

ilikegunspdx · May 8, 2023

eustace_stelio said:
So is it already illegal for a pistol brace to be on a pistol ar? Or can I still shoot it until the amnesty period is up?

Thinking about going up to marys peak or beaver damn rock pit and wouldn't mind shooting my pistol 300 blk out. But if it's already illegal I'll swap out the 7.5" upper for my 16" upper.

If you have applied under brace rule it's legal. If not, they were illegal (with atf) starting 1/31/2023

CamoDeafie · May 8, 2023

eustace_stelio said:
So is it already illegal for a pistol brace to be on a pistol ar? Or can I still shoot it until the amnesty period is up?

Thinking about going up to marys peak or beaver damn rock pit and wouldn't mind shooting my pistol 300 blk out. But if it's already illegal I'll swap out the 7.5" upper for my 16" upper.

Believe that you're still allowed to have the brace on and shoot with it until end of this month (May 31st 2023?)... after that it is up to you to separate, to destroy brace, to replace upper with a 16", to turn in the firearm with brace... and after you get rid of the brace, you could pay $200 for a standard SBR stamp and wait until it's approved to install a real shoulder stock.. or you could try take advantage of it now and not pay the $200 but that's entirely your own decision.. and that's just until one of the few possibilities results from Congress, or District Court lawsuits and appeals to SCOTUS happens..

1. Pistol Brace Final Rule ruled unconstitutional, ATF ordered to delete ruling, and ordered to leave those who registered freely, alone and stop processing new "tax exempt stamps".(good odds)

2. Pistol Brace Final Rule; ruled broadly unconstitutional, NFA SBR portion ruled unconstitutional and overturned, ATF ordered to refund and destroy records of prior paid stamps and current tax exempt stamps, stop all process of stamps for SBRs; MGs, SBS, AOWs, Silencers still in play (slimmest odds IMO)

3. Pistol Brace Final rule; ruled constitutional, ATF does the usual. We're all felons if we didn't register

(depends on the Judges,.possible)

4. Congress defunds ATF, ATF cannot do anything

5. Congress passes (very unlikely until after 2024) new bills to repeal NFA, and amend GCA 1968 and FOPA 86 to strike NFA related provisions

eustace_stelio · May 8, 2023

ilikegunspdx said:
If you have applied under brace rule it's legal. If not, they were illegal (with atf) starting 1/31/2023

That's what I thought but was hoping I had until may 31st.

Oh well I guess I'll throw on the 16" upper and put on a real stock until the Supreme Court tosses the pistol ban, fingers crossed.

sobo · May 8, 2023

Or, if you have a ghost gun, do nothing and leave it a braced pistol Who's to know you have it? :s0092:

CamoDeafie · May 8, 2023

sobo said:
Or, if you have a ghost gun, do nothing and leave it a braced pistol Who's to know you have it?

Isn't there that ORS thing about "unlawful possession of a Short Barreled Rifle" or NFA items unless the person accused has the stamp/items are duly registered with the Feds? Edit, probably more applicable to Range Karens and the like

but game wardens and Forest Service Rangers might get called on for "illegal firearms"

sobo · May 8, 2023

CamoDeafie said:
Isn't there that ORS thing about "unlawful possession of a Short Barreled Rifle" or NFA items unless the person accused has the stamp/items are duly registered with the Feds? Edit, probably more applicable to Range Karens and the like but game wardens and Forest Service Rangers might get called on for "illegal firearms"

If you take the brace off, what's wrong with it?

And what's ORS? Is that like our RCW?

And "Range Karens and the like" can suck a chubby and ESAD. They are not authorized agents of the State, so one doesn't have to show them shiit...

CamoDeafie · May 8, 2023

sobo said:
If you take the brace off, what's wrong with it?

True but shooting with the brace on is the potential issue regardless of what lower is used, unless that whole ghost gun bill manages to pass without quorum

sobo said:
And what's ORS? Is that like our RCW?

Yes. Oregon Revised Statutes.

GWS · May 8, 2023

There is no rule stopping you from putting a brace on a rifle. It's only "illegal" on a pistol. It'll look weird and won't be as comfortable as a stock, but it is legal.