National Pistol Brace Rule Compliance - How to

[Yarome]

Please limit any posts to SBR registration issues/proceedures, "how to's", faq's, or questions specifically related to the registration/compliance process.

This thread is NOT for disucssion on the underlying legal issues or debate on the legality of the alphabets "final rule".

And....GO!!

Read More

 

[SCARed]

Yes, you absolutely do HAVE TO ENGRAVE YOUR SBR. The term "you may adopt existing markings" means you can use the existing serial number and manufacturer info. That's it.
YOU are the maker, and must engrave your name, city and state.

Privately made/manufactured firearms (PMF) refers to 80% lowers where you need to engrave it with a serial number also.

 

[PiratePast40]

Yet others are just as adamant that it doesn't matter for this special registration period. The interpretation is that you are registering an existing Title 1 firearm, so you adopt the markings already on it. You don't need to add any additional engraving. Some say that it doesn't matter if you're the maker or not.

Normally, it would matter, and you would need to add engraving, but not this time.

From the FAQ:
MARKINGS 27.
ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED, AM I REQUIRED TO MARK THE FIREARM SINCE I MANUFACTURED A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR)? • If the SBR equipped with a "stabilizing brace" is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker's marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 & 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1

 

[Yarome]

There may be some confusion in that the markings section is referring to "for registration purposes", but once the stamp is approved then futher engraving is/may be required to be in full compliance. If you do the full engraving before or after doesn't matter, but the minimum requirment must be met and included at the time you submit your form-1.

At least that's been my take-away from all the back and forth.

 

[PiratePast40]

If it needs to be engraved, what does the ATF mean by

" If the SBR equipped with a "stabilizing brace" is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker's marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule."

What other exception would they mean? Not trying to be argumentative, just saying that intelligent people interpret these things differently. I would hope that it's clarified by ATF soon.

 

[Member 53328]

If it needs to be engraved, what does the ATF mean by

" If the SBR equipped with a "stabilizing brace" is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker's marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule."

What other exception would they mean? Not trying to be argumentative, just saying that intelligent people interpret these things differently. I would hope that it's clarified by ATF soon.

If you're going the tax stamp route why not just pay the 30.00 dollars and get it engraved? Have all your bases covered and disregard waiting on clarification from the ATF….. cause we know they'll muddy the waters even more. Clarity is not their strong suit.

 

[Yarome]

If it needs to be engraved, what does the ATF mean by

" If the SBR equipped with a "stabilizing brace" is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker's marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule."

What other exception would they mean? Not trying to be argumentative, just saying that intelligent people interpret these things differently. I would hope that it's clarified by ATF soon.

I took that to mean being allowed to use the mfg markings for the form-1 application... vs.... being required to have the maker (you... as they would require if you were applying pre build), but ultimately, once your form-1 goes through the engraving will still have to comply with the engraving guidelines. In the case of a PMF, then it still requires your maker info and serialization since no mfg markings exist.... and prior to submitting your form-1.

IOW, with the exception of a PMF, no additional engraving (aka, another hoop and delay) is required to submit your form-1.... basically streamlining the process to aid with compliance within a finite amnesty window.

 

[Rkangel]

How does the electronic fingerprint process work?

Is a trust recommended or even an option with the amnesty registration?

 

[PiratePast40]

How does the electronic fingerprint process work?

Is a trust recommended or even an option with the amnesty registration?

For electronic fingerprints, make an appointment through PrintScan. Get them taken at a participating UPS store They email you the prints as an .eft file. Looks like they have locations in Gresham, Oregon City, Salem, Corvallis, and Redmond. This is relatively new. In the past, they would only email prints to an agency or employer requesting the background check.

 

[Rkangel]

For electronic fingerprints, make an appointment through PrintScan. Get them taken at a participating UPS store They email you the prints as an .eft file. Looks like they have locations in Gresham, Oregon City, Salem, Corvallis, and Redmond. This is relatively new. In the past, they would only email prints to an agency or employer requesting the background check.

Is that the only way to do them electronically or can you scan your own fed compliant finger print cards with a good scanner?

 

[Member 53328]

Is that the only way to do them electronically or can you scan your own fed compliant finger print cards with a good scanner?

You can also get the paper forms and roll your own and mail them with your cover letter. I did mine on my kitchen table.

Just another option for you.

 

[Yarome]

Is that the only way to do them electronically or can you scan your own fed compliant finger print cards with a good scanner?

That's the only way. It requires a 10roll print scanner certified by the FBI to create the .eft file. It has a unique electronic identifier and can not (for the average person) be altered. You pretty much need to use a service or go the paper route. The plus side, you only have to get an .eft once and can be used as many times as required. Paper... you'll need a copy for each form-1 submitted.

 

[wired]

Forget about free cards from the ATF for a while. Theyve been swamped with card requests in the last couple of weeks for some reason and dont have any more.
Do .eft's if you dont have access to cards. Still some out there on Amazon without the ORI code. You can fill that in if you need to.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

...

Is a trust recommended or even an option with the amnesty registration?

Re trust, there is a question right now on whether a gun trust can own a title 1 (ie non nfa) firearm.

Wa gun law guy says no due to form 4473 has to have an individual on the form not a corp or trust.

Some other gun trusts and lawyers say yes, including those in states that require 4473.

I have a question pending with one of the gun trust outfits/attorney and I'm hoping for an answer on Monday but who knows when or if I'll get an answer.

Basically it comes down to if a person applies for an sbr then it's free under this amnesty (assuming atf doesn't pull a fast one and say re-apply with $200 due to some technicality). Then to put it into a gun trust would require another $200 via form 4 and a long wait.

What I'm trying to find out is can the gun trust own a title 1 firearm (in OR or WA for example) then apply for sbr via the amnesty. That woudl eliminate the extra $200 per gun and extra form 4. ATF clearly states that gun trusts can apply for the amnesty as long as the gun was owned by the trust before the rule is published in register (likely Jan 31, 2023).

Hope that helps. I know it's a bit confusing. There is discussion on it on the brace rule thread but that is so full of Ukraine and joke stuff it woudl take mining pages and pages of irrelevant info to find anything useful.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Re trust, there is a question right now on whether a gun trust can own a title 1 (ie non nfa) firearm.

Just my guess, I think the FAQ's (for whatever they are worth!) say you can if you had the braced pistol in a trust before Dec 13th that was OK because you did it in good faith and didn't know that it was a SBR so you can apply under the trust but if you transferred a braced pistol into a trust on or after the 13th you did so "knowing" that it was an SBR and subject to NFA rules and would require a stamp for the transfer into the trust

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Just my guess, I think the FAQ's (for whatever they are worth!) say you can if you had the braced pistol in a trust before Dec 13th that was OK because you did it in good faith and didn't know that it was a SBR so you can apply under the trust but if you transferred a braced pistol into a trust on or after the 13th you did so "knowing" that it was an SBR and subject to NFA rules and would require a stamp for the transfer into the trust

I don't trust the FAQs for the date, atf has already admitted at least one of the FAQs is wrong (Hard to trust any of their other info too actually). The final rule says before date published in federal register. Who knows. A lot of their info conflicts with their other info. But since everything else, including the effective date of the rule, is date published, I'm assuming that is the correct date.

Edit: Looks like these FAQs say published date. The only time I have seen Jan 13 used personally is the efiling instructions for form 1, that could be data entry person mistake (using the signed by attorney general date instead of effective date) or it could even be transposition of 31 to 13? I wish they would fix it.


Fwiw Looks like forming a gun trust online is about 20 minutes of time (using the $60 national gun trust site anyway). But then there is the time and cost to have it notarized you have to add to that.

Edit #2. It appears the FAQ screenshots I posted above are after the atf corrected them. I wonder if they have corrected the efile instructions yet.

 

[SCARed]

Then there's the question if you could even transfer a non-nfa firearm into a trust to begin with, since a trust is its own entity to begin with. Most of the legal YouTube channels have said no.

 

[wired]

Then there's the question if you could even transfer a non-nfa firearm into a trust to begin with, since a trust is its own entity to begin with. Most of the legal YouTube channels have said no.

Of course you can. You can put a pair of shoes in a trust. Property owning Trusts existed for a LONG time before someone figured out you could use them to bypass the CLEO signoff.

I have furniture in a trust.

 

[SCARed]

I get that, but the problem I see is with firearms, they are registered to somebody. Or Something.
As you well know, a NFA item registered to an individual can't just be put into a trust, which is what the pair of shoes analogy would suggest. It needs to be transfered into the trust. Why is that different than a title 1 firearm?
I don't agree though, that there is no way to transfer a regular firearm into a trust. I don't see it any differently than transferring a regular firearm into a Corp.

If I were to buy a firearm for my company, an S Corp, there's a few extras I need to do and some requirements to be met, but it's the company firearm and would need to be transfered out if it were sold. Even if it was back to me.

How would that be any different if it were a trust?

 

[wired]

I get that, but the problem I see is with firearms, they are registered to somebody. Or Something.
As you well know, a NFA item registered to an individual can't just be put into a trust, which is what the pair of shoes analogy would suggest. It needs to be transfered into the trust. Why is that different than a title 1 firearm?
I don't agree though, that there is no way to transfer a regular firearm into a trust. I don't see it any differently than transferring a regular firearm into a Corp.

If I were to buy a firearm for my company, an S Corp, there's a few extras I need to do and some requirements to be met, but it's the company firearm and would need to be transfered out if it were sold. Even if it was back to me.

How would that be any different if it were a trust?

As a grantor and trustee you can transfer ownership of the item, whatever it is, to a trust. Not in a state like Oregon that is because of transfer laws but in normal states sure, title 1 guns are no problem. Title 1 guns are not "registered" to anyone in most jurisdictions.