National Pistol Brace rule Dropped!

[Member 53328]

National - Pistol Brace rule Dropped!

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria-firearms-attached-stabilizing-braces

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

"This rule does not affect "stabilizing braces" that are objectively designed and intended as a "stabilizing brace" for use by individuals with disabilities, and not for shouldering the weapon as a rifle. Such stabilizing braces are designed to conform to the arm and not as a buttstock. However, if the firearm with the "stabilizing brace" is a short-barreled rifle, it needs to be registered within 120-days from the date of publication in the Federal Register."

So it's a brace when they say it's a brace but it's not a brace when it's not a brace..
Braces were designed to stabilize against the arm. You don't have to have a disability in order to utilize the leverage it provides. As for "conform", literally a strap "conforms" to the arm.. so this too needs further definition. "Rubber or foam" being explicitly cited for example.

As for registering.. will this register the brace or will this apply to be an SBR? Will "Short braced rifle" will be a new category?

 

[arakboss]

"This rule does not affect "stabilizing braces" that are objectively designed and intended as a "stabilizing brace" for use by individuals with disabilities, and not for shouldering the weapon as a rifle. Such stabilizing braces are designed to conform to the arm and not as a buttstock. However, if the firearm with the "stabilizing brace" is a short-barreled rifle, it needs to be registered within 120-days from the date of publication in the Federal Register."

So it's a brace when they say it's a brace but it's not a brace when it's not a brace..
Braces were designed to stabilize against the arm. You don't have to have a disability in order to utilize the leverage it provides. As for "conform", literally a strap "conforms" to the arm.. so this too needs further definition. "Rubber or foam" being explicitly cited for example.

As for registering.. will this register the brace or will this apply to be an SBR? Will "Short braced rifle" will be a new category?

If you register one, it will be an SBR and you can switch it to a stock after it is registered. I may be registering a number of SBRs for free.

Edit:

10. ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED AS A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR) CAN I REMOVE/CHANGE THE
"STABILIZING BRACE" OR ATTACH AN ITEM MARKETED AS A STOCK? IF SO, AM I REQUIRED TO NOTIFY ATF
IN ADVANCE?
• Yes, the firearm is registered as an SBR, and you can change out the "brace" device or stock for a different brace or stock. You do not need to contact ATF/NFA because changing the brace/stock
does not change the configuration of the SBR. However, if the length of the firearm has changed
you will need to notify the NFA Division.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

If you register one it will be an SBR and you can switch it to a stock after it is register. I may be registering a number of SBRs for free.

I'd probably do that for a few

 

[drstrangelove]

AR pistols are still good, just get a pistol buffer tube that doesn't allow a brace and your GTG
Like this one

Phase 5 // Hex-2™ Pistol Buffer Tube (Hex-2)

AR-15 The Phase 5 Hex-2™ Buffer Tube (Hex-2) features a CNC-machined aluminum hexagonal buffer tube, hard-anodized mil-spec type III black finish, and a machined lower slot.

phase5wsi.com

Tube features don't matter. It's the brace that must go, or SBR it.

 

[asiparks]

That may be true for you, and for many, but that doesn't apply to all... by a long shot. Many have never purchased from an FFL, many have PMF's, and many... even if you "are" already on their list... don't want to add addition red check marks next their names by adding more.

Threat assessments come from a point system. If confiscations ever occur.. they will go after those with the highest "threat assessment" scores. IE., the guy with 50 registered NFA's is going to get a lot more immediate attention than the guy with only one NICS check entry and that's his only NFA.

The "In for a penny, in for a pound" mentality, when it comes to gooverment controls, is somewhat flawed, IMHO. Minimize your footprint on their radar whenever possible, I say.

Did you ever consider that their threat assessment might be weighted not towards those who follow the law and register their braced pistols as SBRS, but instead smacked hard down on those posting on gun forums letting the ATF know they won't comply and to to go suck it ?

If I was ATF, I know I would start with those laboring under the impression they were anonymous and unfindable...

This is ADAF, a ton of people who don't keep up on such matters will likely find themselves accidentally criminal, but hey, I look forward to taking advantage of this as much as possible and will put stocks and VFG on several of mine as soon as the are SBR'd....

 

[wired]

Did you ever consider that their threat assessment might be weighted not towards those who follow the law and register their braced pistols as SBRS, but instead smacked hard down on those posting on gun forums letting the ATF know they won't comply and to to go suck it ?

If I was ATF, I know I would start with those laboring under the impression they were anonymous and unfindable...

The ATF isn't going to go hunting down people with illegal SBR's any more than they have been hunting them down before now. Sell an obviously illegal one on a forum classified chances are the buyer will be a fed. Thats about the end of their effort.

 

[drstrangelove]

You can, you just need to get the receiver/firearm into the trust before the rule is published, which will likely be Tuesday. Big challenge will be finding a notary tomorrow

Where's the advantage on putting them on your NFA trust other than making your new SBR inheritable!? You still need to do the paperwork to register it don't you?

 

[Rkangel]

The did away with it, but basically just wrote it into the final rule and actually expanded the criteria. Or rather... made it even more restrictive as to what constitues an SBR.

Form 4999 had a tiny bit of wiggle room that's now been pretty much wiped out, and even without a brace other criteria may still magically transform a pistol into a rifle/SBR.

Exactly. The comment period, the form 4999, even what they submitted for official documentation and public record was theater and a bald faced lie...and in direct defiance of Congressional letters of warning. They sold the public a false bill of goods. Based on that alone Congress needs to snap them back so hard that they see stars.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Tube features don't matter. It's the brace that must go, or SBR it.

Somewhere in the Final rules 293 pages, is a statement that seems to say anything that extends over the rear most grip area can be construed to be "designed for shouldering" in particular, the statement about surface area? So they're going all the way back to "all ARs and derivatives are potentially rifles/SBRs regardless of what you attach to the back of them"

Edit. Yeah here.. ""
Accordingly, the Department amends the definition of "rifle" under 27 CFR
478.11 and 479.11 to expressly state that the term "designed or redesigned, made or
remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder" includes a weapon that is equipped
with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g., a "stabilizing brace")
that provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, provided
other factors, as listed in the amended regulations and described in this preamble, indicate
that the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. The other
factors are:
(1) whether the weapon has a weight or length consistent with the weight or
length of similarly designed rifles;
(2) whether the weapon has a length of pull, measured from the center of the
trigger to the center of the shoulder stock or other rearward accessory, component
or attachment (including an adjustable or telescoping attachment with the ability
to lock into various positions along a buffer tube, receiver extension, or other
attachment method), that is consistent with similarly designed rifles;
(3) whether the weapon is equipped with sights or a scope with eye relief that
require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder in order to be used as designed;
(4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder
is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component,
or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;""


Edit 2. This also can be construed to mean that buffer tube covers, cheek rests, or similar devices like the foam tube covers.. May still end up being considered a SBR because of both the eye relief/sight thing and the receiver extension/buffer tube being present.

 

[Rkangel]

The ATF isn't going to go hunting down people with illegal SBR's any more than they have been hunting them down before now. Sell an obviously illegal one on a forum classified chances are the buyer will be a fed. Thats about the end of their effort.

They got a massive influx of funding in last spending bill, so I wouldn't bet on it. Call me paranoid if you want but this entire fiasco played out exactly how I thought it would so far. They aren't giving out free tax stamps out of the kindnesses of their hearts or their respect for the constitution. Even if it is only a method of "data collection" via bribery, the inch that government gives is never without miles of take.

 

[Rkangel]

Somewhere in the Final rules 293 pages, is a statement that seems to say anything that extends over the rear most grip area can be construed to be "designed for shouldering" in particular, the statement about surface area? So they're going all the way back to "all ARs and derivatives are potentially rifles/SBRs regardless of what you attach to the back of them"

Edit. Yeah here.. ""
Accordingly, the Department amends the definition of "rifle" under 27 CFR
478.11 and 479.11 to expressly state that the term "designed or redesigned, made or
remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder" includes a weapon that is equipped
with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g., a "stabilizing brace")
that provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, provided
other factors, as listed in the amended regulations and described in this preamble, indicate
that the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. The other
factors are:
(1) whether the weapon has a weight or length consistent with the weight or
length of similarly designed rifles;
(2) whether the weapon has a length of pull, measured from the center of the
trigger to the center of the shoulder stock or other rearward accessory, component
or attachment (including an adjustable or telescoping attachment with the ability
to lock into various positions along a buffer tube, receiver extension, or other
attachment method), that is consistent with similarly designed rifles;
(3) whether the weapon is equipped with sights or a scope with eye relief that
require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder in order to be used as designed;
(4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder
is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component,
or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;""


Edit 2. This also can be construed to mean that buffer tube covers, cheek rests, or similar devices like the foam tube covers.. May still end up being considered a SBR because of both the eye relief/sight thing and the receiver extension/buffer tube being present.

They are trying to set precedence that capability equals intent equals guilt. Following their screwed logic, soon they will claim that because your legal 16" + barreled AR is capable of accepting a shorter barrel, you are now in possession of an illegal SBR. We are fools if we think this ends with pistol braces.

 

[edzz]

Where's the advantage on putting them on your NFA trust other than making your new SBR inheritable!? You still need to do the paperwork to register it don't you?

Other persons listed on your trust can use / handle them without you being present.

 

[nwslopoke]

"This rule does not affect "stabilizing braces" that are objectively designed and intended as a "stabilizing brace" for use by individuals with disabilities, and not for shouldering the weapon as a rifle. Such stabilizing braces are designed to conform to the arm and not as a buttstock. However, if the firearm with the "stabilizing brace" is a short-barreled rifle, it needs to be registered within 120-days from the date of publication in the Federal Register."

So it's a brace when they say it's a brace but it's not a brace when it's not a brace..
Braces were designed to stabilize against the arm. You don't have to have a disability in order to utilize the leverage it provides. As for "conform", literally a strap "conforms" to the arm.. so this too needs further definition. "Rubber or foam" being explicitly cited for example.

As for registering.. will this register the brace or will this apply to be an SBR? Will "Short braced rifle" will be a new category?

What is a disability?

 

[Yarome]

Did you ever consider that their threat assessment might be weighted not towards those who follow the law and register their braced pistols as SBRS, but instead smacked hard down on those posting on gun forums letting the ATF know they won't comply and to to go suck it ?

If I was ATF, I know I would start with those laboring under the impression they were anonymous and unfindable...

This is ADAF, a ton of people who don't keep up on such matters will likely find themselves accidentally criminal, but hey, I look forward to taking advantage of this as much as possible and will put stocks and VFG on several of mine as soon as the are SBR'd....

You mean because the growing trend in the U.S. these days is to make laws and impose greater restrictions on the criminal elements and those that choose to not follow the law?

If recent history should teach us anything.... those that comply are the easiest to control, further infringe upon and make them criminals overnight with little to no warning... and little to no backlash against their agenda.

The only threats they consider are the greater masses that pose a threat to that agenda. THOSE are the ones that must be forced into compliance or suffer the self imposed consequences of their own making.

The path of least resistance to more and continued power.

Food for thought!

 

[BBQ Guy]

Ain't registering chit per their NFA stamp bribery/extortion attempt.

They can pucker up and suck a fart out of my brown star fish because that's all they deserve.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Ain't registering chit.

They can pucker up and suck a fart out of my brown star fish because that's all they deserve.

If you've ever paid for a BG check,or filled out Form 4473; the ATF has pretty much all your info anyhow now.. if you've got 80%s and the like... awesome

 

[Kruel J]

For real, if anyone has a brace let me know

I have one. SBA3.

 

[DennyG]

Do the eform1's require pictures? I remember someone mentioning it

Not yet

 

[DennyG]

So if you have a pistol braced firearm in shipment right now to an FFL , how does this work ? Are FFLs starting today can't turn them over?

FFLS have 60 days. You have 120 . You could be gtg. But will still have to nfa it... But for free!