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Pulled this out of their tome. Of interest to the constitutional types.

Department Response The Department disagrees with commenters that this regulation violates the Second Amendment. Heller and subsequent judicial decisions support the Department's view that weapons regulated by the NFA, such as short-barreled rifles, fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment. The Supreme Court in Heller, 554 U.S. at 570, held the Second Amendment protects an individual right to bear arms for traditional, lawful purposes such as self-defense. At the same time, the Court recognized that the rights established under the Second Amendment are not absolute or unlimited. Id. at 595. Heller specifically recognized an "important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms," i.e., that the right is limited to "the sorts of weapons . . . 'in common use at the time.'" Id. at 627. The Court stated that this limitation is supported by "the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of 'dangerous and unusual weapons.'" Id. The Court rejected the "startling" position that "the National Firearms Act's restrictions on machineguns . . . might be unconstitutional, machineguns being useful in warfare in 1939." Id. at 624. Heller thus made clear that machineguns and short-barreled shotguns are "weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes," and thus fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment as historically understood. Id. at 625; see also id. at 627 (accepting that M-16 rifles are dangerous and unusual weapons that may be banned). Indeed, after Heller, lower courts similarly held that short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles are dangerous and unusual weapons that fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment because of the danger presented. United States v. Cox, 906 F.3d 1170, 1186 (10th Cir. 2018) ("we take our cue from Heller and conclude that the 185 possession of short-barreled rifles falls outside the Second Amendment's guarantee"); United States v. Gilbert, 286 Fed. App'x 383, 386 (9th Cir. 2008) (approving jury instructions that an individual does not have a Second Amendment right to possess a short-barreled rifle, and observing that, "nder Heller, individuals still do not have the right to possess machineguns or short-barreled rifles"); Marzzarella, 614 F.3d at 90–95 (explaining that a long gun with a shortened barrel is both dangerous and unusual, because "its concealability fosters its use in illicit activity," and "because of its heightened capability to cause damage" and that the Second Amendment does not provide protection for all types of weapons); Gonzalez, 2011 WL 5288727, at *5 ("Congress specifically found that 'short-barreled rifles are primarily weapons of war and have no appropriate sporting use or use for personal protection.'" (quoting S. Rep. No. 90-1501, at 28)). Thus, Heller and subsequent judicial decisions support the Department's view that the weapons regulated by the NFA, such as short-barreled rifles, were not historically protected by the Second Amendment and thus fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment. Nothing in the Supreme Court's recent decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol bubblegum'n v. Bruen, 142 S. Ct. 2111 (2022), changes this analysis. 145 See 145 The Supreme Court's decision in Bruen abrogated several circuit court decisions applying a "'two-step' framework for analyzing Second Amendment challenges." Id. at 2125. At the first step, courts asked whether the "challenged law regulates activity falling outside the scope of the [Second Amendment] right as originally understood." Id. at 2126 (quotation marks omitted). If so, then the law did not violate the Second Amendment. But if the law did regulate activity within the amendment's scope, then courts applied a means-end test similar to the strict or intermediate scrutiny used to evaluate laws burdening First Amendment rights. Id. at 2126–27. The Court in Bruen largely approved of the first step, which "is broadly consistent with Heller," id. at 2127, but specifically disapproved of the second step, see id. Thus, although Bruen abrogates previous decisions applying the means-end test, the Department does not believe the case casts doubt on courts' prior conclusions that, based on historical tradition, the Second Amendment does not extend to dangerous and unusual weapons. See, e.g.,Marzzarella, 614 F.3d at 94 ("the Supreme Court has made clear the Second Amendment does not protect . . . types of weapons" such as "machine guns or short-barreled shotguns—or any other dangerous and unusual weapon"). 186 id at 2162 (Kavanaugh, J. concurring) (reiterating Heller's finding that "dangerous and unusual weapons" are outside of the Second Amendment's protections). Further, the Department also notes that neither the rule nor the NFA bans the possession of the relevant firearms. In regulating short-barreled rifles, Congress only requires the registration of the firearms in the NFRTR and the payment of a making or transfer tax, neither of which prohibits a person's ability to possess these weapons. This rule does no more than clarify the Department's understanding of the best meaning of the relevant statutory provisions.
Ha ha ha ha...

Common use;

M4s (SBRs) is standard issue to US Army infantry.

Machine guns are also standard issue (see M4s and M16s) :rolleyes:

Millions of braced AR pistols (now considered "unregistered SBRs") in the hands of US citizens, how are these "not common use"? :rolleyes: can't wait for the lawsuits and pro2A lawyers to drag them over the coals on this one part :s0140:
 
Ha ha ha ha...

Common use;

M4s (SBRs) is standard issue to US Army infantry.

Machine guns are also standard issue (see M4s and M16s) :rolleyes:

Millions of braced AR pistols (now considered "unregistered SBRs") in the hands of US citizens, how are these "not common use"? :rolleyes: can't wait for the lawsuits and pro2A lawyers to drag them over the coals on this one part :s0140:
And it is loooooong overdue.
 
I have multiple tax stamps that I paid money for. But I still have this feeling…. Haha.

CD2F4F88-0D5E-436C-AC2A-DFFF9E8C67B0.jpeg
 
So, how many are gonna take the same upper and brace and picture it on all of your ARs?
 
Will this be a SBR under the new rule?

It "may" be. One of the dangers of this new rule is that within the languge it does not limit a brace/stock as the sole requirement to be deemed an SBR. If it has characteristics that suggest it is intended to be fired with two hands, then it can still be classed as an SBR.

They left themselves a ton of ambigious latitude to make those determinations on a case-by-case basis.

Doing away with form 4999, which contained prequalifiers for analysis (having a brace or stock), they did away with that limited classification qualifier.

That leaves, basicailly, anything that falls within the designated overall lengths, trigger pull distances, focal point optic distances and other factors open to reclassification that might end up biting us in the rear well beyond the "classical" braced pistol configuration.

Dangerous stuff hiding in that final rule!!
 
ATF is an enforcement agency, not part the legislative branch that makes laws...no, they are part of the executive branch that enforces laws.

This cannot legally happen, yet here we are people jumping on the wagon going along with it without much question...I guess we've become used to such things, so we shrug the shoulders and carry on...
I get your point and agree this is almost certainly going to be rebuked by courts.

But there is an attraction to doing one or two, saving reg. fees if an SBR is desired. I'd like to see the NFA thrown out but am vastly less certain of that vs. this getting tossed.
 
Pulled this out of their tome. Of interest to the constitutional types.

Department Response The Department disagrees with commenters that this regulation violates the Second Amendment. Heller and subsequent judicial decisions support the Department's view that weapons regulated by the NFA, such as short-barreled rifles, fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment. The Supreme Court in Heller, 554 U.S. at 570, held the Second Amendment protects an individual right to bear arms for traditional, lawful purposes such as self-defense. At the same time, the Court recognized that the rights established under the Second Amendment are not absolute or unlimited. Id. at 595. Heller specifically recognized an "important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms," i.e., that the right is limited to "the sorts of weapons . . . 'in common use at the time.'" Id. at 627. The Court stated that this limitation is supported by "the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of 'dangerous and unusual weapons.'" Id. The Court rejected the "startling" position that "the National Firearms Act's restrictions on machineguns . . . might be unconstitutional, machineguns being useful in warfare in 1939." Id. at 624. Heller thus made clear that machineguns and short-barreled shotguns are "weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes," and thus fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment as historically understood. Id. at 625; see also id. at 627 (accepting that M-16 rifles are dangerous and unusual weapons that may be banned). Indeed, after Heller, lower courts similarly held that short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles are dangerous and unusual weapons that fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment because of the danger presented. United States v. Cox, 906 F.3d 1170, 1186 (10th Cir. 2018) ("we take our cue from Heller and conclude that the 185 possession of short-barreled rifles falls outside the Second Amendment's guarantee"); United States v. Gilbert, 286 Fed. App'x 383, 386 (9th Cir. 2008) (approving jury instructions that an individual does not have a Second Amendment right to possess a short-barreled rifle, and observing that, "nder Heller, individuals still do not have the right to possess machineguns or short-barreled rifles"); Marzzarella, 614 F.3d at 90–95 (explaining that a long gun with a shortened barrel is both dangerous and unusual, because "its concealability fosters its use in illicit activity," and "because of its heightened capability to cause damage" and that the Second Amendment does not provide protection for all types of weapons); Gonzalez, 2011 WL 5288727, at *5 ("Congress specifically found that 'short-barreled rifles are primarily weapons of war and have no appropriate sporting use or use for personal protection.'" (quoting S. Rep. No. 90-1501, at 28)). Thus, Heller and subsequent judicial decisions support the Department's view that the weapons regulated by the NFA, such as short-barreled rifles, were not historically protected by the Second Amendment and thus fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment. Nothing in the Supreme Court's recent decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol bubblegum'n v. Bruen, 142 S. Ct. 2111 (2022), changes this analysis. 145 See 145 The Supreme Court's decision in Bruen abrogated several circuit court decisions applying a "'two-step' framework for analyzing Second Amendment challenges." Id. at 2125. At the first step, courts asked whether the "challenged law regulates activity falling outside the scope of the [Second Amendment] right as originally understood." Id. at 2126 (quotation marks omitted). If so, then the law did not violate the Second Amendment. But if the law did regulate activity within the amendment's scope, then courts applied a means-end test similar to the strict or intermediate scrutiny used to evaluate laws burdening First Amendment rights. Id. at 2126–27. The Court in Bruen largely approved of the first step, which "is broadly consistent with Heller," id. at 2127, but specifically disapproved of the second step, see id. Thus, although Bruen abrogates previous decisions applying the means-end test, the Department does not believe the case casts doubt on courts' prior conclusions that, based on historical tradition, the Second Amendment does not extend to dangerous and unusual weapons. See, e.g.,Marzzarella, 614 F.3d at 94 ("the Supreme Court has made clear the Second Amendment does not protect . . . types of weapons" such as "machine guns or short-barreled shotguns—or any other dangerous and unusual weapon"). 186 id at 2162 (Kavanaugh, J. concurring) (reiterating Heller's finding that "dangerous and unusual weapons" are outside of the Second Amendment's protections). Further, the Department also notes that neither the rule nor the NFA bans the possession of the relevant firearms. In regulating short-barreled rifles, Congress only requires the registration of the firearms in the NFRTR and the payment of a making or transfer tax, neither of which prohibits a person's ability to possess these weapons. This rule does no more than clarify the Department's understanding of the best meaning of the relevant statutory provisions.
New York State Rifle & Pistol bubblegum'n?

What got changed here?
 
The new rule allows for a person to register a pistol with a brace without paying the $200 tax stamp. That is not extortion, it is bribery. And it is working.
DUDE !!! you have 120 days ..... its now an SBR !!!! you have to register it !!!! that's the extortion !!!! what part of that do you not understand ? What part of IF YOU DO NOT COMPLY WE'LL JAIL YOU do you not understand ? That's called extortion !!!! That's what gangs do, if you do not comply they will harm you. Do you english???
 
Just a thought here.. They say there is 40mil braces out there. What if no one complied where are you going to jail 25million people and if you bankrupt 25million people that would collapse the economy.
 
Just a thought here.. They say there is 40mil braces out there. What if no one complied where are you going to jail 25million people and if you bankrupt 25million people that would collapse the economy.
Economic collapse is a major goal to these creatures.
 
Just a thought here.. They say there is 40mil braces out there. What if no one complied where are you going to jail 25million people and if you bankrupt 25million people that would collapse the economy.
Seeing it for what it is... the rule is nothing more than political posturing. But scared bunnies are gonna hop. It's the way of nature. ;)
 
Seeing it for what it is... the rule is nothing more than political posturing. But scared bunnies are gonna hop. It's the way of nature. ;)
Just like everyone here in Oregon in regards to 114. This is just on a national scale. Sadly.
 
Seeing it for what it is... the rule is nothing more than political posturing. But scared bunnies are gonna hop. It's the way of nature. ;)
Just want to be clear before I reply, are you saying that in your opinion anyone on here that says they will follow the law and (by choice) file for a Form 1 per the new rules are nothing more than "scared bunnies"?
 

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