Philisophical question

[theficklefinger]

People crash cars, half of them are at fault, and do not have the funds to a- repair the other person's car b- pay the medical expenses c-pay other damages

Required health insurance is becoming an issue because 50% of all bankruptcys are because of medical bills. Certainly everyone is getting overcharged, costs haven't gone up, only the profits desired...so like auto body shops over charging...insurance companies, health or auto, now have a mandatory customer base to start profiting from.

As far as liability for shootings...I doubt you will see that as a requirement...no profits, not enough CCW shootings, not enough of a customer base...but it wouldn't surprise if the gun grabbers throw something like this in there to make the cost of carrying so prohibitive, that is becomes a defacto form of gun control.

I've joked that if everyone was required to hit a target at 25 yards to own a gun you effectively would kill gun ownership, or everyone would step up and practice.

 

[Misterbill]

This is exactly why the left loves Romney, it lessens Obummer's accountability. Right on cue dude, way to go.

Wrong answer. The Left loves Santorum and Gingrich, because they'll be an effortless annihilation in November. -Or are you really that stupid?

 

[chariot13]

That just it! If you don't want to drive ... in essence not utilize a privilege then you aren't required to have auto insurance. Is living life a right or a privilege? You can't live life without having a need for health care at some point. So you can take the libertarian perspective and say that you are on your own and have to pay it all out of your own pocket (totally unrealistic ... I had a serious issue that over the course of 5 months exceeded $175,000.00) or we could have a system where a person doesn't have to go bankrupt just because they aren't fortunate enough to have insurance.

Right now we have socialized medicine in America and it is called the VA. But it is only socialized for a certain group of folks.



Not to nit pick but ...... ER's are for EMERGENCIES. I am assuming you were very feverish, had other dramatic or severe constitutional symptoms such as uncontrollable squirts, shortness of breath, low blood pressure, etc that justified that 20 minute ER visit. A 20 minute ER visit is as likely as me winning the Powerball and I never play it.

Your anecdote illustrates the need for fixing our health care system before it completely falls apart. Consumers of health insurance and health care are constantly having to fight for one while cajoling the other.

As for providers .... physician assistants and nurse practioners are being leaned on very heavily and very unfairly in my opinion. The provider facility still gets to bill full price but the PA's and NP's certainly don't get paid like a full on MD/DO.

Right or privilege it makes no difference to me. There's no freedom when someone says its mandatory to purchase or 'have' something. As long as one can opt out with out having to do any paperwork but instead just not do the paperwork it would take too opt in, i'm all for it.

 

[coop44]

The health care "system" is becoming a branch of government, do we really want that?

Look at the education system, until the late 1800's and early 1900's it was responsibility of parents to see that their children were educated. The government became involved and turned it into a right. How well has that worked out? I see it here all the time, not well.

On the other hand look at commercial aviation. The sky belongs to no one (argueable) and in the dawn of the age of flight there were no regulations and things were ok, sure a few people died. In response the FAA came to being. Would you really want to get on a 747 if there were no rules, ground control towers, licensed pilots, et cetera?

Getting the government involved can be either a good thing or a bad thing. I think that many involve the government when they are under the mistaken impression that the government can make the proper decision. Possibly because the act of choosing is just too difficult for them.



Those who demand that the "government" do something, about anything, better be prepared to give up something. Like say, the right to choose.

There are those here and elsewhere who seem to confuse freedom with anarchy. I agree limits must be placed on individuals, there must always be consequences to actions. The "no taxes, no laws, do what I want" crowd are at best delusional, at worst, need serious adult supervision.

Freedom is a funny thing, it means different things to different people.

 

[chariot13]

"Would you really want to get on a 747 if there were no rules, ground control towers, licensed pilots, et cetera?"

I don't want to get on any plane today anymore than back then.

You correctly stated what happens though once the Government gets involved. The right to choose goes out the door. To much oversight is given to a complete stranger that is not a part of your family that dictates what will & won't happen in your own family unit. Its quite disgusting actually & immoral.

 

[Kevatc]

Right or privilege it makes no difference to me. There's no freedom when someone says its mandatory to purchase or 'have' something. As long as one can opt out with out having to do any paperwork but instead just not do the paperwork it would take too opt in, i'm all for it.

I am all for opting out so long as you can't file for bankruptcy on medical bills. If you access the healthcare system then you are on the hook for every penny of costs you incur even though you opted out of a way to have it paid for through and insurance company.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Wrong answer. The Left loves Santorum and Gingrich, because they'll be an effortless annihilation in November. -Or are you really that stupid?

Excepting Ron Paul they are all throw away candidates

 

[Kevatc]

Just came across this article. Maybe it will continue the conversation and maybe not. Just thought it was interesting.

Why an MRI costs $1,080 in America and $280 in France - The Washington Post

 

[fd15k]

Just came across this article. Maybe it will continue the conversation and maybe not. Just thought it was interesting.

Why an MRI costs $1,080 in America and $280 in France - The Washington Post

Interesting article, but it only scratches the surface. Like one big thing not mentioned - cost of education.

I was talking to a young man who is starting medical school this fall. His tuition at one of South Carolina's newer schools will be $40,000 per year. That's admittedly on the high end. On the low end, it runs a paltry $33,000 per year. And this is all after college, of course. He and others like him are taking out loans to the tune of $240,000 to pay for their medical educations. Another young woman I recently met is in residency, and her loan payments are around $2000 a month.

Medical Education Shouldn't Cost an Arm and a Leg : Emergency Medicine News

 

[Jamie6.5]

Insurance
Does Your Doctor Charge Too Much?

Oregon Medical Malpractice Insurance - FREE quotes - FREE Practice Tools

High Cost Of Malpractice Insurance - CBS News

Rising doctors' premiums not due to lawsuit awards - The Boston Globe

<broken link removed>

The same conglomerates that sell us "healthcare insurance" are driving up the cost of health care by increasing malpractice insurance, in most cases, by multiples of the rate of inflation. Furthermore, the preponderance of evidence is that tort claims have little or no affect on these rates.

Insurance companies are controlling health care costs through malpractice insurance. The resulting "defensive medicine" that many doctors are forced to practice requires that MRI to avoid having the doctor's malpractice insurance cancelled, or their premium increased.

The insurance companies KNOW, that if you can't afford to pay out of pocket, you will buy their "healthcare" insurance product.

This chain of influence could have been broken during the healthcare debate, but alas, our leaders failed us again.
Instead, they passed a law that says "all must pay," thereby guaranteeing the income stream of the InsCos.
And in many cases, it's taxpayer funded!

All hail the insurance companies!!

 

[JimmyS1985]

Well I don't want to give too much input because I haven't read through the 2000 page document, but I do recall Governor Perry criticizing former Governor Romney over Romneycare and the fact that Obamacare was based off of the health insurance plan he signed in Massachusetts.

Here is what I didn't hear one single thing about from any of the Republicans let alone Mitt Romney when he passed that health insurance law.

The state of Texas has one of the worst state healthcare systems in the nation. I forget the exact numbers, it was like half of texans don't have health insurance while Massachusetts has one of the best healthcare systems in the nation.

I remember saying that if you can get healthcare, albeit minimal, in the prison system as a right, why can't law abiding citizens? Whether the healthcare law passed was a mess or not, one thing that I think we can agree on is that the private health insurance industry did completely fail at providing Americans with healthcare over the past decade, and when you get into providing insurance for a basic necessity like healthcare, you will raise politicians attention if you don't have a system in place to provide it.

I got a flimsy health insurance plan, I think its the bare minimum to get me to be allowed to talk to a doctor. Without it, most doctors would turn me down from even seeing me.

 

[sadiesassy]

Lots of people choose to not own a vehicle. Most of the big cities like New York it cost a fortune to own, store and operatre a vehicle.

But it is a previlidge - You are not required to drive. And if you do not drive you do not pay insurance.

Second - I have a choice to drive a small cheap car, high high deductibles, even only carry liability insurance or I can buy a real expensive sports car and low deductible. But it is my decision what I buy and what insurance I buy.

As far as guns - Have umbrella laibility insurance

The healthcare plan requires everyone to have a predefined insurance plan.

 

[fd15k]

I remember saying that if you can get healthcare, albeit minimal, in the prison system as a right, why can't law abiding citizens?

That's actually an interesting point. And here are some numbers :

California's Annual Costs to Incarcerate an Inmate in Prison

Security $19,663
Inmate Health Care $12,442
...
Total $47,102

California Criminal Justice FAQ: How much does it cost to incarcerate an inmate?

Sometimes I wonder, who is really being punished