Online purchasing

[Jcreek201]

Fairly new poster here, but I've been reading the forums for a long time. My question pertains to ordering long guns online, and the answer has evaded me this far on here and the rest of the interweb. I live in Washington and have made numerous purchases across the border in Oregon, so I know you can purchase long guns across state lines with bothering with an FFL transfer. My question is if I oreder a rifle online (ordering a custom build), can I have it shipped to an FFL in Oregon to save on sales tax? I know handguns have to be shipped to your state but does that apply to long guns as well? Seems a bit contradictory if it does. Any information or ideas on where to find the info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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[bolus]

Washington has a Use tax right? I imagine a Oregon dealer may be nervous about helping someone avoid sales tax.

 

[Jcreek201]

I'm not sure what you mean by a use tax but we do have a sales tax and I know none of the dealers in the area care. It's common practice for Washingtonians in this area to buy everything from groceries to guns in Oregon. Like I said, I've bought lots of guns in Oregon with a WA DL just never ordered online.

 

[bolus]

http://dor.wa.gov/content/findtaxesandrates/usetax/

When is use tax due?
Use tax is due if:

• Goods are purchased in another state that does not have a sales tax or a state with a sales tax lower than Washington's. For example, items you purchase in Oregon that are used in Washington are subject to use tax

I think it obvious that people buy in Oregon and dont pay their use tax. But I guess I dont know enough about FFL transfers to have a good answer for you.

 

[Jcreek201]

Interesting, I've lived here 90% of my life and have never actually heard of that before. Thanks for the reply and info I'll have to dig into that a little more.

 

[spectra]

Do you think anyone who purchases something in OR pays a use tax..... That is why they purchased it in OR to start with!

 

[bolus]

Do you think anyone who purchases something in OR pays a use tax..... That is why they purchased it in OR to start with!

well that's obvious.

Perhaps the FFL would not care, perhaps they might attract attention if they started doing a bunch of transfers for out of state residents who happen to live in a state with sales tax.

Some more info here:

"because of state and federal laws, a firearm purchased out-of-state by a Washington resident must be sent from the out-of-state seller to a federally licensed gun dealer located in Washington State"

<broken link removed>

It does not quote the specific law though.

 

[Jcreek201]

Interesting. Leave it to the revenue department to not know what they are talking about. As everyone here knows there is no federal law preventing you from buying a long gun out of state in-person, and walking out the door with it without a transfer and I've combed through every WA state gun law hundreds of times and there is no state restrictions require an FFL transfer for every out of state purchase.

Edit: After rereading that, I noticed it said "out-of-state seller" not "dealer". Maybe they're referring to buying from private citizens out of state and just being excessively vague.

 

[bnsaibum]

http://dor.wa.gov/content/findtaxesandrates/usetax/

When is use tax due?
Use tax is due if:

• Goods are purchased in another state that does not have a sales tax or a state with a sales tax lower than Washington's. For example, items you purchase in Oregon that are used in Washington are subject to use tax

I think it obvious that people buy in Oregon and dont pay their use tax. But I guess I dont know enough about FFL transfers to have a good answer for you.

Another "interesting" bit of info from I-594 is that it removes the sales tax from private sales completed with a background check, (Sec. 10). I'm guessing the initiative writers thought this might be a sop to sooth the gun owners. It also seems to remove the burden of collecting the use tax from the FFL (use tax RCW 82.12, the applicable section amended is RCW 82.12.040).

Sec. 11(9) Notwithstanding subsections (1) through (4) of this section, any licensed dealer facilitating a firearm sale or transfer between two unlicensed persons by conducting background checks under chapter 9.41 RCW is not obligated to collect the tax imposed by this chapter.

The tax is currently collected by the FFL. After the law is in force the tax must still be paid, but if the buyer does not pay it due to not knowing about this particular WA tax law it may go unpaid. Only now there will be a paper trail. How much unpaid use tax will get someone hauled into court and how much unpaid tax would it take to get a conviction with the result being the "stripping" of 2A protection?

 

[Jcreek201]

All good points, but all that would only happen if the gun ever saw the inside of an FFL in WA state what is specifically what I want to to avoid. It might help that I own property in Oregon. According to the ATF if you maintain residences in multiple states you can buy handguns in both states as long as your residing there at that point in time. I would assume that means your eligible to have the ha shipped to FFL's there as well. Doesn't say anything about ID requirments for each state though.

 

[GrpCapMandrake]

You can purchase your long gun and have it shipped to an FFL in Portland for the transfer. Yes the FFL in OR will not collect the use tax that would apply in Washington. However you are required by Washington regulations to send in the appropriate tax payment.

Also would be a great idea to call the FFL to arrange the whole thing before setting off down this path, some FFL's may get a bit flustered by the arrangement.

Hope this helps.

 

[Redcap]

You can purchase your long gun and have it shipped to an FFL in Portland for the transfer. Yes the FFL in OR will not collect the use tax that would apply in Washington. However you are required by Washington regulations to send in the appropriate tax payment.

Also would be a great idea to call the FFL to arrange the whole thing before setting off down this path, some FFL's may get a bit flustered by the arrangement.

Hope this helps.

 

[scrandall01215]

Interesting, I've lived here 90% of my life and have never actually heard of that before. Thanks for the reply and info I'll have to dig into that a little more.

It's always been there. I remember in the early 90' the wa at revenue dept. would have agents watching Costco for people that were purchasing lrg. Amounts of cigerettes and if they had Wa plates they would follow them to there home and nail them for not paying the tax on them it was very controversial at the time.
One caviot you only owe the state tax which used to be only 6.5 percent the last time I looked. ( been awhile ) the other 3.4 and up is local county or city tax you don't pay!

 

[Jcreek201]

It's always been there. I remember in the early 90' the wa at revenue dept. would have agents watching Costco for people that were purchasing lrg. Amounts of cigerettes and if they had Wa plates they would follow them to there home and nail them for not paying the tax on them it was very controversial at the time.
One caviot you only owe the state tax which used to be only 6.5 percent the last time I looked. ( been awhile ) the other 3.4 and up is local county or city tax you don't pay!

That's crazy, I remember even as a kid going across to the Portland Costco to shop with my parents. Was never aware that the state actually expects people to just send them a check in the mail. Like redcap said....lol.

You can purchase your long gun and have it shipped to an FFL in Portland for the transfer. Yes the FFL in OR will not collect the use tax that would apply in Washington. However you are required by Washington regulations to send in the appropriate tax payment.

Also would be a great idea to call the FFL to arrange the whole thing before setting off down this path, some FFL's may get a bit flustered by the arrangement.

Hope this helps.

Definitely helps, thank you. I'll take that advice and probably place the order directly through the FFL so they have a heads up.

 

[deen_ad]

<- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

That's crazy, I remember even as a kid going across to the Portland Costco to shop with my parents. Was never aware that the state actually expects people to just send them a check in the mail. Like redcap said....lol.

Definitely helps, thank you. I'll take that advice and probably place the order directly through the FFL so they have a heads up.

No, the State of WA expects you to stop by the Revenue dept, fill out a form declaring the real value of the product then pay the use tax. Tried that many years ago and the people in the Revenue Dept didn't know what to say.

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"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[DieselScout]

One of the mattress stores in Oregon got closed down because they weren't charging tax to Washington buyers or something similar.

 

[Redcap]

I buy as much as possible in Oregon to avoid WA's greedy "use tax" bullbubblegum.

 

[IronMonster]

As a business I cannot avoid paying "use tax" If I am claiming it as an expense there is a record of it and I gotta pay. I order lots of consumables, parts, materials and tools on line and paying the use tax is a huge PITA. It is cheaper than paying the sales tax though.

I prefer to just try and spend my money locally if I can but its so convenient to buy the stuff on Amazon and have free two day shipping.

 

[Stomper]

Maybe you can get free shipping at Amazon on some decent legislators!!

 

[Sgt Nambu]

It's always been there. I remember in the early 90' the wa at revenue dept. would have agents watching Costco for people that were purchasing lrg. Amounts of cigerettes and if they had Wa plates they would follow them to there home and nail them for not paying the tax on them it was very controversial at the time.
One caviot you only owe the state tax which used to be only 6.5 percent the last time I looked. ( been awhile ) the other 3.4 and up is local county or city tax you don't pay!

That's right! They also watched the parking lots at jantzen Beach Mall for the same infractions!