On "Bans" of anything

[Ura-Ki]

Another problem We need to look at is the sub sect of "gun Owners" who for what ever reason, believe that only hunting and target shooting should fall under the protection of the 2nd, not any of the other reasons We here all understand! I think a lot of "those" folks sit it out, vote/don't vote because it doesn't fit there beliefs! I could blame the schools and the MSM, but I blame my self for not reaching out to others and explaining the hard truth!
In order for US to make any sort of head way, we need a LEADER, a spokesperson that folks will listen to and follow! We need Money to fight with, and we need to unite behind this cause in order to bring the fight to the States! I believe WE can save the lost PNW States if we can change how we fight, make the LEFT bend to our wishes! I think what I have laid out would be a good place to start and I think Orygun is the best place to get this fire started! Some one needs to take up a leadership roll and get the good people behind a movement toward that end! It also needs to be understood that this fight may need to "GO HOT" if change cannot be effected because of Bloom, and Soros, and Bloody Kate, ect........ I.E. the money fight! Use the powers granted US and oust those in power for failing to follow Constitutional Law! That means LEO, Local, City, and State positions of leadership! Sadly, the left has ONE BIG ADVANTAGE, MONEY and Gobs of it to throw away after this fight, and Arse Hol's to mouth off in support of that agenda! SO..............How do we change it up? How do We re write the rules of this fight? How do we fight money? Find these answers and we find the way to win this fight! Find a way to stop the money flow from Bloomberg and Soros and any others that have nothing better to do then stir up this Pot-O- Stink! Make them go away and we have a chance! Force the States to fight with out the "free money" and the fight will quickly dry up!!!

 

[Ura-Ki]

I think we need to find a way to Destroy the source of endless money coming at us! Block Bloomberg out completly and marginalize him and those like him! Gov'ness Brownstain supposedly was a victim of domestic violence and Blabby Gabby Giffords was shot through the head! These are people, and many on the left like them, have been changed fundamentally by something, and because of their position of power, The money to support their anti position flows! Others hold the flawed beliefs that certain things are not needed or should not be allowed and in their minds, they can justify those beliefs because they do not infringe upon the 2nd! I know many folks that think this way, and no amount of reasoning will change those views! That fight is hopeless with them, and many will not even have that discussion with any one! You Win by making the fight so costly ( and By Costly you can insert any "Cost" you wish I.E. Blood, Money, Ect....) that the other side declares it's self defeated and sues for peace!!! The terms of peace are the full restoration of ALL rights and removal of all limits!

 

[etrain16]

Another problem We need to look at is the sub sect of "gun Owners" who for what ever reason, believe that only hunting and target shooting should fall under the protection of the 2nd, not any of the other reasons We here all understand! I think a lot of "those" folks sit it out, vote/don't vote because it doesn't fit there beliefs! I could blame the schools and the MSM, but I blame my self for not reaching out to others and explaining the hard truth!
In order for US to make any sort of head way, we need a LEADER, a spokesperson that folks will listen to and follow! We need Money to fight with, and we need to unite behind this cause in order to bring the fight to the States! I believe WE can save the lost PNW States if we can change how we fight, make the LEFT bend to our wishes! I think what I have laid out would be a good place to start and I think Orygun is the best place to get this fire started! Some one needs to take up a leadership roll and get the good people behind a movement toward that end! It also needs to be understood that this fight may need to "GO HOT" if change cannot be effected because of Bloom, and Soros, and Bloody Kate, ect........ I.E. the money fight! Use the powers granted US and oust those in power for failing to follow Constitutional Law! That means LEO, Local, City, and State positions of leadership! Sadly, the left has ONE BIG ADVANTAGE, MONEY and Gobs of it to throw away after this fight, and Arse Hol's to mouth off in support of that agenda! SO..............How do we change it up? How do We re write the rules of this fight? How do we fight money? Find these answers and we find the way to win this fight! Find a way to stop the money flow from Bloomberg and Soros and any others that have nothing better to do then stir up this Pot-O- Stink! Make them go away and we have a chance! Force the States to fight with out the "free money" and the fight will quickly dry up!!!

I think we need to find a way to Destroy the source of endless money coming at us! Block Bloomberg out completly and marginalize him and those like him! Gov'ness Brownstain supposedly was a victim of domestic violence and Blabby Gabby Giffords was shot through the head! These are people, and many on the left like them, have been changed fundamentally by something, and because of their position of power, The money to support their anti position flows! Others hold the flawed beliefs that certain things are not needed or should not be allowed and in their minds, they can justify those beliefs because they do not infringe upon the 2nd! I know many folks that think this way, and no amount of reasoning will change those views! That fight is hopeless with them, and many will not even have that discussion with any one! You Win by making the fight so costly ( and By Costly you can insert any "Cost" you wish I.E. Blood, Money, Ect....) that the other side declares it's self defeated and sues for peace!!! The terms of peace are the full restoration of ALL rights and removal of all limits!

ABSOLUTELY!!!

 

[nammac]

We start eating away at their control at the local level, whenever any of these leftist politicians hold town hall or other public meetings, we need to be there calling them out on their campaign funding, their oath of office, their lack of upholding their oath of office, for violating the Constitution and impeding our Civil Rights...

We need to continue to beat this drum, beat it consistently, beat it loud, beat it often, beat it every single opportunity we have... And we need to do this in numbers... We need to ban together or fall divided...

 

[Diamondback]

I still don't know what those are.

I think those are "over-folder" or "scorpion" stocks.

 

[DB is Here]

Much like Andy said, I'll obey every law and I never speed, cuss or spit.

 

[whitney]

Perhaps, but who would bring it? Who would pay for it? The ACLU?

I agree we need to do something different, something that gets their attention and makes them hear and respond to our concerns. I'm still trying to figure out what that is. I do believe our best path lies in the courts though - tie them up in endless lawsuits for every gun ban or restriction. Make it too expensive, too draining, to stay on course.

Problem is, we don't have a group in Oregon to do that or a big financial backer to fund it.

Honestly, if I was rich, I'd offer a $5M donation to the NRA to get their big lawyers to come to OR to go after these laws in a big way. I know you're no fan of the NRA, but they do have the right people to make it happen.

I wanted to comment on this thread today when I read it at lunch but wanted to copy in an email exchange I had with Adam Kline while he was still the Judicary Chair in Olympia. Unfortunately I cannot find it but the gist of the exchange was effectively lawmakers are counting on the law abiding citizen to be "scared into compliance".

I agree with most folks here regarding the expense of pushing back so I will share an email I sent to the Washington Attorney General regarding his proposed weapons ban. This of course did not cost me a dime and there is no reason any one else can't send the same request. This is the system we have and if you really want to let them know how you feel then feel free to use my email as a template. How many Washington members are on this board? Want to make an impact?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>read bottom to top >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ms. Slater –


Thank you for your below public records request; it has been assigned the above file number and we ask that you please reference that number on any future correspondence regarding this request.


I estimate that it will take ten (10) business days to determine the location, nature and amount of records that may be responsive to your request. If records are ready prior to that time, I will notify you. If this time assessment requires adjustment, I will also advise you of that.


After the location, nature and amount of records has been determined, I will provide you with further estimate of the time necessary to gather the records, if any, for inspection and/or copying.


Please contact me at the below email address or at Office of the Attorney General, Public Records & Constituent Services, P.O. Box 40100, Olympia, WA 98504-0100, if you have any questions. Thank you.


LaDona Jensen

Director of Public Records

& Constituent Services

Office of the Attorney General

[email protected]


From: Whitney Slater [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:53 AM
To: ATG WWW Public Records Requests
Subject: Public Records Request

Pursuant to Washington's Sunshine Law, please supply me with:

1) Electronic copies of all communications received or transmitted since 9/1/2016 which reference or question assault weapons /or weapons prohibitions - in general as referenced in the following Attorney General news release. http://atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/ag-ferguson-proposes-ban-assault-weapons-high-capacity-magazines
2) Documentation indicating the names & e-mail addresses of coalition members referred to in the aforementioned news release.

Item #1 above should be understood to include internal communications also.

If you have questions about this request, don't hesitate to call.
Cordially,

Whitney Slater

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Regarding non compliance with the laws I would ask how many of you speed when you drive?
My hypocrisy only goes so far, and I will state publicly I will not comply with unconstitutional laws. I will try and qualify that statement so I don't appear to be the outlaw on another list.

Last night on the news, King County Sheriff John Urquhart was asked why folks who are prohibited from buying firearms from a dealer are not prosecuted. He plainly stated they do not have the resources. News clip follows.
(Thousands of gun crimes go unpunished in Washington)

Now on "unconstitutional" laws who gets to decide? It is not unlawful or criminal for the legislature to pass unconstitutional laws, they do it all the time. The Judical system is left to sort it out because the legislature does not get enough pressure from "we the people".

As law abiding citizens it is our duty to use the process and systems we have in place. Civil disobedience also has a role yet most of us likely do not have the time or inclination to take to the streets in protest.

Send the email.

~Whitney

 

[etrain16]

I wanted to comment on this thread today when I read it at lunch but wanted to copy in an email exchange I had with Adam Kline while he was still the Judicary Chair in Olympia. Unfortunately I cannot find it but the gist of the exchange was effectively lawmakers are counting on the law abiding citizen to be "scared into compliance".

I agree with most folks here regarding the expense of pushing back so I will share an email I sent to the Washington Attorney General regarding his proposed weapons ban. This of course did not cost me a dime and there is no reason any one else can't send the same request. This is the system we have and if you really want to let them know how you feel then feel free to use my email as a template. How many Washington members are on this board? Want to make an impact?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>read bottom to top >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ms. Slater –


Thank you for your below public records request; it has been assigned the above file number and we ask that you please reference that number on any future correspondence regarding this request.


I estimate that it will take ten (10) business days to determine the location, nature and amount of records that may be responsive to your request. If records are ready prior to that time, I will notify you. If this time assessment requires adjustment, I will also advise you of that.


After the location, nature and amount of records has been determined, I will provide you with further estimate of the time necessary to gather the records, if any, for inspection and/or copying.


Please contact me at the below email address or at Office of the Attorney General, Public Records & Constituent Services, P.O. Box 40100, Olympia, WA 98504-0100, if you have any questions. Thank you.


LaDona Jensen

Director of Public Records

& Constituent Services

Office of the Attorney General

[email protected]


From: Whitney Slater [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:53 AM
To: ATG WWW Public Records Requests
Subject: Public Records Request

Pursuant to Washington's Sunshine Law, please supply me with:

1) Electronic copies of all communications received or transmitted since 9/1/2016 which reference or question assault weapons /or weapons prohibitions - in general as referenced in the following Attorney General news release. http://atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/ag-ferguson-proposes-ban-assault-weapons-high-capacity-magazines
2) Documentation indicating the names & e-mail addresses of coalition members referred to in the aforementioned news release.

Item #1 above should be understood to include internal communications also.

If you have questions about this request, don't hesitate to call.
Cordially,

Whitney Slater

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Regarding non compliance with the laws I would ask how many of you speed when you drive?
My hypocrisy only goes so far, and I will state publicly I will not comply with unconstitutional laws. I will try and qualify that statement so I don't appear to be the outlaw on another list.

Last night on the news, King County Sheriff John Urquhart was asked why folks who are prohibited from buying firearms from a dealer are not prosecuted. He plainly stated they do not have the resources. News clip follows.
(Thousands of gun crimes go unpunished in Washington)

Now on "unconstitutional" laws who gets to decide? It is not unlawful or criminal for the legislature to pass unconstitutional laws, they do it all the time. The Judical system is left to sort it out because the legislature does not get enough pressure from "we the people".

As law abiding citizens it is our duty to use the process and systems we have in place. Civil disobedience also has a role yet most of us likely do not have the time or inclination to take to the streets in protest.

Send the email.

~Whitney

Though I'm not convinced emails or phone calls do much good, especially here in Oregon, I still do them. Even to legislators that can only be bothered to respond with a canned "we understand your concern" B.S. that I've gotten from so many at the state and federal levels. In fact, I just wrote our Governor last week to discuss the upcoming 2017 legislative session.

SB941 was passed with not a single email, phone call or even public testimony slowing it down. They had their minds made up and they walked over the top of us. We do need something new here, and while we try to figure it out, then yes, keep writing, keep calling. But ultimately, it will take something much more.

 

[maddog]

I'm putting a lot of faith in Richardson going forward. I have to believe petitions will be treated without corruption. I guess I'm assuming lots of petitions flooding Salem. From the crazy emergency clause to recall petitions, I'm anticipating a very busy 2017. Rest easy brother etrain16, I think we'll be seeing a greater collective and focused effort than in the past.

 

[Brutus57]

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." -Thomas Jefferson

The problem is, who decides what is just and unjust? Therein lies the rub.

Brutus Out

 

[tiggers97]

Another problem We need to look at is the sub sect of "gun Owners" who for what ever reason, believe that only hunting and target shooting should fall under the protection of the 2nd, not any of the other reasons We here all understand!

Just show those "No one needs an 'assault weapon'" hunters the following article.

Cliff-notes: VOX did a visual survey with the question "should this be banned?"
74% of democrat respondents thought a Remington 700 w/ scope should be banned.
61% of democrats thought the Mossberg 500 pump shotgun should be banned.



We showed people 11 different firearms. They told us which ones should be banned.

 

[tiggers97]

Though I'm not convinced emails or phone calls do much good, especially here in Oregon, I still do them.

When people stop calling/email/phoning/meeting/going to town halls, it makes the gun-control legislatures smile.

Think of it as a grain of sand; one or two grains thrown at a politician, and they pay no attention. Put them in with other grains of sand in a 50-lb bag of sand? Much harder to ignore.

 

[tiggers97]

We start eating away at their control at the local level, whenever any of these leftist politicians hold town hall or other public meetings, w

True. Politicians hate things that make them look bad in public. Love things that make them look good. And town halls are the perfect place to do it.

 

[PaulB47]

Laws that are mostly not complied with, send a loud and clear signal to the ruling class: "DON'T ATTEMPT TO ENFORCE THIS LAW!" There is a great risk to the police if they try it, and that risk spreads to the politicians if they persist.

"Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate; we are all qualified, entitled, and morally obliged to evaluate the conduct of our rulers. This political judgment, moreover, is not simply or primarily a right, but like self-preservation, a duty to God. As such it is a judgment that men cannot part with according to the God of Nature. It is the first and foremost of our inalienable rights without which we can preserve no other. "
-- John Locke

"It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of citizens and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The freemen of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise and entangled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much...to forget it."
-- James Madison

 

[Caveman Jim]

True. Politicians hate things that make them look bad in public. Love things that make them look good. And town halls are the perfect place to do it.

But gun owners asking questions or making politicians look bad at said venues will be thrown out on their ear by their ARMED body guards!!!

 

[PaulB47]

That's all right. Let them be seen as thugs. Of course to make it work, you need to not be perceived yourself as a thug, so mind your manners.

 

[GlockFan1990]

Will not comply and sure as sh*t wont turn anything in.