Obama Cowers Again

[markw76]

That's where the Marshall Plan came in.

 

[56kninja]

As for beating Germany and Japan, everybody should remember the old adage: "A man changed against his will, is of the same opinion still!"

Are you kidding me?

Do you believe that Germans still want to kill all Jews, and invade the world?

Do you believe that the Japanese also still desire conquest through an imperial army?

It was 60+ Years ago. The leaders from that age, are all dead. The world is a different place now.

 

[slingshot1943]

Obummer was just showing off his bowlling move. Thats what you get when you elect Elmo President.

 

[braves765]

(It was 60+ Years ago. The leaders from that age, are all dead. The world is a different place now)



Thats exactly why we continue to have wars, because people like you tend to forget, and believe that the world is a different place. Your right, the leaders are gone, but there are still alot of veterans alive to remind us. God help us when their gone..

We have the same thing going on with much of America letting its guard down against an enemy that is as dangerous as Hitlers new world order was. This radical muslim war that they have been waging on the rest of the world must be met head on. We may want to move on with our lives, and forget, but they have vowed to fight wherever and FOREVER.

Thats why we should care if the past is forgot, and the President disrepects the remaining veterans that fought and secured yours and my right to have this conversation. (In english instead japanese or german) There would be nothing wrong with a handshake and a nod amongst leaders.

Dont get me wrong. I dont have any hatred towards Japan or Germany, just feel that once you stand up to the bully (Japan and Germany) and you win, there should never be a day on that we bow down to either of them.

Just like (Saving Private Ryan) theres a new series being played on the History Channel (WWII IN HD) that should be required watching for everyone. The horrors of war, and the sacrifice our parents went through must be remembered to hopefully head off the next major war. There were over 70 million people killed in WWII.

Knowone knows what the future holds, but we as a country must always remain vigilant, and strong. We are good people and try to help many countries around the world. That is what we do, but evil is out there and will rise up again.

 

[SonicBlue03]

hahahahahaha

Oh damn, I actually hurt something laughing when I read that.

The more things change, the more things stay the same. The reason we have wars are the same reasons we've had for decades...nay, centuries.

Religion, Racism, and Riches. And you are kidding yourself if you think any of our conflicts in the past century don't fit in one of those three buckets.

 

[braves765]

Who the **** cares why wars are started.

What matters is being on the winning end if the US is provoked.

Not perfect, the US has helped more countries and people all over the globe than any nation in the history of human civilization.

I dont find anything funny about that..

 

[56kninja]

(It was 60+ Years ago. The leaders from that age, are all dead. The world is a different place now)



Thats exactly why we continue to have wars, because people like you tend to forget, and believe that the world is a different place. Your right, the leaders are gone, but there are still alot of veterans alive to remind us. God help us when their gone..

People like me? I never suggested we forget. I'm suggesting we learn from our mistakes (and by no means, has America always done "the right thing)

It's a vicious cycle. If people don't understand history, they are doomed to repeat it. And I fully believe this.

We have the same thing going on with much of America letting its guard down against an enemy that is as dangerous as Hitlers new world order was. This radical muslim war that they have been waging on the rest of the world must be met head on. We may want to move on with our lives, and forget, but they have vowed to fight wherever and FOREVER.

This is an issue. Whatever caused the radical Islamic terrorists groups to target us is irrelevant at this point, because they have. How do we deal with them? I don't think that we can honestly. They have a will obviously much stronger than your average American's.

Thats why we should care if the past is forgot, and the President disrepects the remaining veterans that fought and secured yours and my right to have this conversation. (In english instead japanese or german) There would be nothing wrong with a handshake and a nod amongst leaders.

I'm not saying we should forget. I'm saying we should treat our friends like they are our friends, even if we fought them in the past.

Dont get me wrong. I dont have any hatred towards Japan or Germany, just feel that once you stand up to the bully (Japan and Germany) and you win, there should never be a day on that we bow down to either of them.

We didn't bow down to them, our clown of a president did. But Germany nor Japan is a concern to me.. The people today in those countries are much different than they were then.

Japan is slowly writing out their imperial history and their extremely brutal, savage massacres against people weaker than them.

And the Germans I've known seem to feel shame for their past. They get upset at even the mention of the name, Hitler.

Just like (Saving Private Ryan) theres a new series being played on the History Channel (WWII IN HD) that should be required watching for everyone. The horrors of war, and the sacrifice our parents went through must be remembered to hopefully head off the next major war. There were over 70 million people killed in WWII.

I'll have to watch this if I get the chance. For me it is actually the sacrifices that my Grandfather went through. All my dad ever told me was, "He never wanted to ever talk about it"

Knowone knows what the future holds, but we as a country must always remain vigilant, and strong. We are good people and try to help many countries around the world. That is what we do, but evil is out there and will rise up again.

We should try to help people, when we can. I just hope our enemy (as some have predicted) isn't domestic.

The scariest part about the subject of war.. Is that people who have never been in it are the ones making the calls.

People love war. Love to talk about it. People have been dreaming and fantasizing about World War 3 since as long as I can remember. They want it to happen. These types scare me, because they are all around, and it's getting worse.

I don't think people can really understand a real war until bullets are barely missing their head while their trying to keep their best friend alive after he just got shot in the chest.

 

[SonicBlue03]

Who the **** cares why wars are started.

What matters is being on the winning end if the US is provoked.

Not perfect, the US has helped more countries and people all over the globe than any nation in the history of human civilization.

I dont find anything funny about that..

Make up your mind. Either we remember (and care) why wars are fought or we don't. But if we shouldn't care as you suggest, you're implying then we shouldn't care why servicemen and women are put in harms way. I find that a pretty callous attitude toward the nation's vets from someone who's spent half their posts claiming we need to remember and be supportive.

So which is it?

 

[86-0134]

you're living in the last century my friend. Wars are fought, won, lost, and never forgotten but if we adopted that attitude you're recomending, i'm afraid we'd be at war with the whole world.

You should also not that the emperor is not really a position of power any longer in japan. Japan is now a form of democracy, and not monarchy nor an imperial nation, so he didn't bow to any leader.

Remember, the old ways aren't the best. The old ways included throwing an entire race of people in shackles when they had done nothing wrong. Which was very well a huge violation of the constitution.

Lastly, after reviewing the bow obama gave, i now realize that he didn't know what he was doing. It seems as though he had a lack of understanding of how to bow, and simply did it wrong.

I'm not afraid of japan thinking we're weak. Remember what happened last time they thought that? I'm sure they do.

But obama did make a joke of himself.

now this is a beautiful image of a bow! I love this picture!

 

[86-0134]

as for beating germany and japan, everybody should remember the old adage: "a man changed against his will, is of the same opinion still!"

the lesson i have learned from wwii is that if you bomb your enemy into oblivion they give up and never f*** with you again. Thank god our leaders then had enough guts to fight a real war then. We are too weak to do it now.

 

[braves765]

Make up your mind. Either we remember (and care) why wars are fought or we don't. But if we shouldn't care as you suggest, you're implying then we shouldn't care why servicemen and women are put in harms way. I find that a pretty callous attitude toward the nation's vets from someone who's spent half their posts claiming we need to remember and be supportive.

So which is it?

I cant even believe that in the context of this discussion, you would post this. In WWII, nobody gave a hoot about Japans ambitions nor Germanys. What mattered was that (we as a nation) were attacked by both fronts, and the world was in serious danger from evil forces.
The American people wanted to fight this war because of that.


If someone just walks up out of the blue and punches (you) in the face I guess we should stop and worry about why he did it. Sounds like new wave liberal thinking to me. Somehow I dont really believe you feel that way.

 

[SonicBlue03]

So to translate, you don't have an answer to give. And you're 100% wrong, understanding why we fought or fight wars is very important to avoid the pitfalls or to help us see the signs to either be more proactive in our actions or to avoid the conflicts altogether. I guess you just don't respect our vets which makes me equally sad.

People that want war are people who have never experienced it. And if someone punches me in the face, you're absolutely correct that I'm going to want to know why so I don't have to hurt someone again for the same reason. If it's something I'm doing to be a prick, I can modify my behavior so someone else doesn't have to pay the price again.

 

[bugeye]

Obummer was just showing off his bowlling move. Thats what you get when you elect Elmo President.

That's not fair, he only became president so Bert and Earnie could come out of the closet!

Now that the right has had opportunity for another contrived, fake aversion filled, 2 minute hate we can move on to the next one. I don't see how you can expect the 'ininitiated' to respect your opinions on anything when you thrive on a steady diet of absurd nitpicking.

 

[BPN]

In my opinion he did the right thing to bow as a sign of respect. I am of Vietnamese descent and born here in WA. In my mind if I am invited over to an asian household I bow as a sign of respect and thank them for inviting/letting me into their home. If I am invited over to a white person's home shake hands and thank them for letting me into their home.

Now did Obama bow too low? That's an argument, but if you think he was wrong to bow I would disagree with you. When one of my white friends bow to my parents I will be thoroughly impressed because to me they were considerate enough to think of my family's culture.

 

[braves765]

The mother of my son is 1/2 Vietnamese, and was actually born in Vietnam during the war. Thats irrelevant. This whole thread is about Obama (DEEP) bowing to the Emperor of (Japan). Did I say DEEEEEP bowing? If you are asian or live in asia and meet the leader, then it would be appropriate because you are showing subservience to your leader.

Our President should only show mutual respect in the manner of a handshake and or a slight nod. Interesting how he will bow down to Japan and Saudi Arabia but would not to the Queen of England. Oh, thats right they're actually one of our Allies. Obama is very smart, he knows exactly what he's doing.

If anything, we all might be bowing to China in the near future if we dont quit borrowing money from them.

 

[braves765]

So to translate, you don't have an answer to give. And you're 100% wrong, understanding why we fought or fight wars is very important to avoid the pitfalls or to help us see the signs to either be more proactive in our actions or to avoid the conflicts altogether. I guess you just don't respect our vets which makes me equally sad.

People that want war are people who have never experienced it. And if someone punches me in the face, you're absolutely correct that I'm going to want to know why so I don't have to hurt someone again for the same reason. If it's something I'm doing to be a prick, I can modify my behavior so someone else doesn't have to pay the price again.

Now your using my arguement to stay vigilant and aware of other nations? Make up your mind. I dont know of anyone that wants war, maybe you do?

As too the punch in the face analogy, once again I am confused. I said, "out of the blue" and your going to try and understand why someone you have never met would do that? Sounds like what the public schools and the media have been trying to teach kids for years. Maybe your a little younger than some of us?

Japan and Germany were unprovoked when they attacked the US and the rest of the world. Your liberal, passive, feel good attitude, can be easily studied. Simply look at France or any number of European countries. They too tried to understand and negotiate with evil. Look where that got them.

 

[SonicBlue03]

Now your using my arguement to stay vigilant and aware of other nations? Make up your mind. I dont know of anyone that wants war, maybe you do?

As too the punch in the face analogy, once again I am confused. I said, "out of the blue" and your going to try and understand why someone you have never met would do that? Sounds like what the public schools and the media have been trying to teach kids for years. Maybe your a little younger than some of us?

Japan and Germany were unprovoked when they attacked the US and the rest of the world. Your liberal, passive, feel good attitude, can be easily studied. Simply look at France or any number of European countries. They too tried to understand and negotiate with evil. Look where that got them.

There's some irony in your comment about the school system. Do a little more research on why Japan attacked the U.S. You seriously cannot be that ignorant of history when trying to use it to make a statement.

And your punch analogy was moronic because your understanding of history is limited at the least, horribly flawed and revisionist at the most.

 

[SonicBlue03]

I'm all ears. Why did Japan attack the U.S. ?

Embargo. When you're an island nation dependent on natural resources for your survival (and conflict) and the nation you're trading or purchasing from cuts off your only supply, you're being provoked.

We didn't like what Japan was doing with China (although there would be some today that would argue it wasn't such a bad thing.) Japan historically has made China tap and submit. We cut off their oil which not only had military impact but also impact on their civilians. At that point Japan was not targeting the U.S. for military action - why would they? We were their trade partner. Russia was protecting its oil successfully, and Japan's incursion further into Asia would be met by U.S. resistance as well.

So they took a gamble: attack and surprise the U.S. and hope for a delayed response while they secured other oil sources. The Japanese never labored under the illusion they would beat us. They wanted to delay our ability to stop them from securing the resources they needed that we had cut off from them.

Funny how it almost always seems to be about the oil.

 

[SonicBlue03]

No matter the reason for the aggression, one has the right to defend one's self... No?

Agreed. And from the Japanese perspective, they were being treated in an aggressive/hostile manner and were being "attacked" so they struck out which they saw as a defensive action. I don't agree with their choice, but I understand the perspective.

The world, its politics, and the reasons for war are complicated, and convoluted, and IMO are not as simplistic as "oil" though an important component it is, and has been at times. It is after all the life blood of a nation, like it or not.

I think your statement of the complexities that make up the decisions to go to war are accurate, but IMO war traditionally boils down to one or more of the three R's. It's oversimplified, but as you point out these are the things that fuel nations.

Furthermore, all of this talk did not address Hitler and his less than moral reasons for waging war...
The only answer it would seem to be for the U.S. to become 100% isolationist in order to avoid all wars?

The restrictions and hardships put on Germany after WWI were the catalyst to allow Hitler or someone like him into power to motivate a broken people. Our actions toward Germany at the end of WWII were far less punitive than WWI and the commitment to rebuild that nation (and split it up with the Russkies) led to the state that it's in today.

I don't think we need to be isolationist, but we should be less meddlesome. The manner in which we protect our interests abroad while trying to maintain the aura of moral superiority does more harm than good, not just with our adversaries but our allies as well.

 

[SonicBlue03]

They were not being "attacked" they were being (through embargo's, etc.) economically pressured.
As a result of that they thought they could buy some time by attacking the U.S. whilst they procure/secure resources such as oil, etc.

Semantics. Applying pressure to a smaller nation that has large physical impact to their populace will be seen as an attack. Verbal, physical, economic, to those feeling impact or threatened will view it as an attack.

Huh?? So, the rise of Hitler (or someone like him) is the fault of the U.S. and other nations, and is not the fault of germany's prior actions which started in WWI?

I didn't say Germany had no culpability. What I said was that the restrictions and conditions that were placed on Germany after WWI were the catalyst that allowed for someone like Hitler to step in and take power. Being victorious on combat is only one portion of the war. How one deals with their defeated adversary is equally important as the decisions made will influence/impact future conflicts or issues with that nation. Again, Germany is a great example - how we handled Germany after the second defeat is worlds different than how we handled it the first time.

I agree to a point, but this forum has not the room for my response so I'll leave it at that...

That's a pity, because your opinions seem based on the research and knowledge you have which has made it good to read. Your disagreements aren't based on the overt dislike of a black man voted into power