New Proposals to Fix Homeless Crisis

[Kruel J]

Oh yeah I bet you didn't see this on the news or The so called MAIN STREAM MEDIA .
LOL.
that over the last two days over 400 cops and DEA have done multiple warrant and kick the door raids .
Lol .
Mmmmmmm not on the news .
Multiple guns and drugs .
And mmmmm....mmmmmm
Mexican cartels involved.

mmmmm. Mexican food is my favorite.

 

[Hop Sing]

So I talked to a policeman today about the homeless folks around here and he said that their hands are tied because the 9th Circuit Court said that a homeless person can't be evicted from public property and that his/her RV/truck/van is considered a "dwelling". Here is an article on the whole deal:

Federal Court Says Cities Can't Prosecute People For Sleeping On Streets

 

[edslhead]

So any street in a big city can become an RV park. Brilliant!!!

 

[Kid@Heart]

Give them a free bus ticket to San Francisco.

 

[CoastRange57]

the 9th Circuit Court

Shocking.

 

[Hop Sing]

So any street in a big city can become an RV park. Brilliant!!!

Depends on whether the city had codes in place before the ruling. Many smaller or mid-sized cities never even thought of such a thing as people living in RVs and now are basically powerless to do anything about them.

 

[CamoDeafie]

If rving/caravaning (UK/Aussie term?) Is considered "camping", then it ought to be relatively easy to enforce city "no camping" and trespass laws.... but as has been shown with Seattle, its dependent on city councils.

I mean, we have "RV Campgrounds", a large RV accessory company called "Camping World", and the simple fact that RVs are also called Campers...

 

[DuneHopper]

So, I keep a chapter of my life private for the most part. But reading this topic there needs some reality.
Being homeless does not make you subhuman, and it does not make you a criminal.
My Parents split wen I was 17, I know oooh boo hoo,. But this was back when there was NO services for anyone.
( and My mom and sister we able to live with Family but was no room for me, so I stayed about 50 miles away where we had lived prior as its and area I knew well so it would not feel so strange )
I could have easily got into drugs and became a criminal, but I didnt. I got a Job, washing dishes and even they didn't know, that each night I was sleeping at the park. I would wait until the Cleaned the bathrooms early at a couple fast food places and would go in and clean up for a days work, eventually saved up and got a place. Took me along time to do that with working PT and no place to live. Just take a minute and realize not everyone that is homeless are pigs, and low life's. I got dealt a Sh!tty hand and dealt with it, eventually filed and got a grant to go to college with. Why I was out there, I met many hard working people that were in dire straights. This is just before the 80's job boom so jobs were still limited.
There was no assistance back then, even as a kid no one would help because I was 17. It can be done and people can make it out. But we have created a revolving door of hopelessness. Where we try and fix them, rather then educated and get them off the street. As long as there are handouts, why try harder is the goal of many that are homeless. They even play the system, by getting arrested for drugs and then get treatment so they can have a place to live all winter. Sad state, but until we look at the homeless problem, as everyone's problem it wont be fixed. These are people, we need to remember that. And our service men and women who are often on the streets, deserve hand up, not a hand out.

That's my two cents.

 

[Hop Sing]

Good write up, DuneHopper. I think one of the big problems is sorting out who is really trying and in need of help, and separating them from the people who are gaming the system.

 

[Hellingbamster]

Most don't want help they just want more drugs....That's it they just Love their tent and their needle......and the city of Seattle is trying really hard to make it easier for them to do this........They call it a "safe injection site"

AND, it may get even better! Saw a CBC news article last day or so that said some folks in the other Vancouver (B.C.) are pushing for the gov. to provide CLEAN & PURE dope for the addicts, so they won't croak off from overdoses, etc. Oh boy. If this comes off there will be a migration from all over the country to good old YVR. That should be an "interesting" situation.

 

[jomalley]

I think I have some ideas of how we can curb homelessness.

1: $1500 fine to any motorist who gives to panhandlers while driving on a public roadway. $1200 for pedestrians who give to panhandlers from a public right of way. Allow parking lot owners to put up signs declaring their lot is a no panhandle zone. Impose the same fines.

2: Limit use of Narcan to accidental exposures.

3: Start a transportation company that makes several free trips to Seattle every day. Pays for itself by taking FedEx smartpost packages from Seattle to wherever.

Because it's Christmastime: Are there no prisons? Are there no work houses?

Aren't we supposed to be the good guys?

I curse Martin Luther for his rejection of 'faith and good works' in preference of 'faith alone will save you.' American Protestantism is wrong. If you're going to cast your common man to the curb, what man are you?

Joe

 

[No_Regerts]

Because it's Christmastime: Are there no prisons? Are there no work houses?

Aren't we supposed to be the good guys?

I curse Martin Luther for his rejection of 'faith and good works' in preference of 'faith alone will save you.' American Protestantism is wrong. If you're going to cast your common man to the curb, what man are you?

Joe

A realistic one. Not all of these people are currently being investigated for a crime, so that rules out prisons and "work houses". Not sure if you mean work release, but you still have to have been adjudicated and sentenced to be forced to go there. Pretty sure you're not advocating for locking up non-criminals.

The common man often prefers the curb.

 

[mkwerx]

I like @No_Regerts initial ideas, but jack it to $2500 first offence for anyone giving to a pan handler, as well as an additional ticket to motorists for impeding traffic or enabling a hazard - say $500.

Mandatory arrest for illegal camping, with seizure of unauthorized tents/vehicles, plus additional vandalism and offensive littering at $1000 per incident.

$500 fine and/or arrest for public urination and defecation.

Work camps for offenders that cannot pay, and give every homeless adult the opportunity to volunteer for a work crew. They can work off legal debts at state minimum wage. Put offenders and volunteers to work on litter patrol, painting over graffiti, cleaning up homeless encampments, sweeping sidewalks, and cleaning public restroom facilities in city parks. Clean, secure tent cities for them - military canvas wall tents with stoves and cots. If its good enough for soldiers, its better than typical homeless living conditions. Three hot meals, and daily showers for the residents.

Reopen state mental health hospitals and confine the mentally unstable or those that refuse to regularly take mood stabilizing medication.

If you refuse help, you go to jail or the looney bin.

I feel for the genuinely down and out. They are a tiny fraction of the current crop of homeless. Most are on the streets because of addiction or mental illness. They like the lifestyle. Same with the van and RV living set - its by and large a choice, not a necessity.

Drastic measures are necessary to reverse the course. Yes they are people, yes they have rights. So do the rest of us. You don't have a right to squat on public property, $#!7 on the sidewalk, or create a hazard for everyone else. There are programs for those who want help. Most homeless don't. Maybe instead of clean needles and condoms, the city should just hand out razor blades and crocodile.

Portland, Seattle, Tacoma, Salem...they are all cess pools. And its spilling into the burbs and countryside more every day. One of my favorite fishing holes 10 miles out of town has had homeless squatters camped out there for over a year. When one gets rousted, another moves in. Its only getting worse.

 

[No_Regerts]

I don't care if they refuse help. If they do, they should be trespassed from the jurisdiction.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Lets take this even further.
0 (ZERO) public property.

0 (ZERO) right to freely camp in any State nor National Forest (or on any property not held by private corporations or persons)

Bring back debtor and tax prison systems

Abolish the concept of public accommodations; make all parcels of property privately owned or corporate owned or incorporated into city property;
Abolish the concept of free usage of parks and the like
Install "pay as you go" toll system of sidewalk usage (benches, tables, et cetera)

Heck, abolish the concept of rights for people who are not landowners nor renters

Lets see what that gets us.. right... the United Kingdom?

In all seriousness.. this is something we could discuss on a new thread starting soon

 

[CamoDeafie]

Maybe we should instead look at it this way, clearly they are not reporting incomes from whatever sordid things they do to get money for drugs, beer, whatnot... so maybe the IRS should crack down on them for not reporting earnings?
It worked for them to get Al Capone

 

[mkwerx]

Publicly owned property doesn't and has never meant that any member of the public can camp out on it. You cannot even legally camp anywhere you want in a state or national forest or park.

We have certain standards as a society, and living in ramshackle RVs or grungy tents in a city park or greenspace, pissing on the sidewalk, shooting up on bus stop benches, or fornicating in public bathrooms does not meet the standards. So the folks that refuse to be part of normal society can choose - get clean and get off the streets, or get institutionalized of they can't/won't.

Allowing the public safety and health risks to continue is wrong.

Albany does not have it near as bad as the major metro areas - in Portland you drive thru neighborhoods all over where dozens of homeless camps pop up literally next door or acrosd the street from houses or apartments, schools and parks. At night they spring up on the sidewalks in the Pearl District and Park Blocks. Tom McCall Waterfront Park is flat out dangerous due to the junkies, pushers, and crazies. ODOT welded fencing under all the overpasses. They break into locked buildings, break into cars, steal property and assault normal innocent folk. But yep, lets bury our heads and do nothing because its ok to be a strung out diseased bum, or a ln unmedicated nutter that may snap and kill or injure someone.

Their rights do not trump everyone elses.

 

[No_Regerts]

Maybe we should instead look at it this way, clearly they are not reporting incomes from whatever sordid things they do to get money for drugs, beer, whatnot... so maybe the IRS should crack down on them for not reporting earnings?
It worked for them to get Al Capone

Do you think your average panhandler makes enough money to qualify to oay income tax? Maybe they could report income as single/0 dependents and then get a tax return to use to go on a real bender? They could pickle their selves every April.

 

[No_Regerts]

Publicly owned property doesn't and has never meant that any member of the public can camp out on it. You cannot even legally camp anywhere you want in a state or national forest or park.

We have certain standards as a society, and living in ramshackle RVs or grungy tents in a city park or greenspace, pissing on the sidewalk, shooting up on bus stop benches, or fornicating in public bathrooms does not meet the standards. So the folks that refuse to be part of normal society can choose - get clean and get off the streets, or get institutionalized of they can't/won't.

Allowing the public safety and health risks to continue is wrong.

Albany does not have it near as bad as the major metro areas - in Portland you drive thru neighborhoods all over where dozens of homeless camps pop up literally next door or acrosd the street from houses or apartments, schools and parks. At night they spring up on the sidewalks in the Pearl District and Park Blocks. Tom McCall Waterfront Park is flat out dangerous due to the junkies, pushers, and crazies. ODOT welded fencing under all the overpasses. They break into locked buildings, break into cars, steal property and assault normal innocent folk. But yep, lets bury our heads and do nothing because its ok to be a strung out diseased bum, or a ln unmedicated nutter that may snap and kill or injure someone.

Their rights do not trump everyone elses.

Hell, the dim sum joint off 82nd had a pile of at least 15 used needles on the sidewalk near the entrance.

 

[CamoDeafie]

You cannot even legally camp anywhere you want in a state or national forest or park.

State of Oregon: Recreation - Camping on Oregon's State Forests

Dispersed camping is allowed in Oregon State Forests year round. There are no fee or permit requirements. Campers are required to adhere to ODF regulations regarding placement of campsites, campfires, sanitation, and stay limits. Campfires and charcoal barbeques are not allowed in dispersed campsites during the Regulated Use portion of fire season. There are no maps for dispersed campsites.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal...130000000000&ttype=detail&cid=stelprdb5291492

Similar rules/structure.
Also of interest, BLM does not have a fee structure for similar camping (dispersed).