Need a refresher on rifle loading...

[Goosebrown]

That's awesome that the magazine allows you to set it that far out!

I don't load that way for magazines. I do everything single shot.

For ARs I load as far to the lands as I can that fit in the mag but I shoot 55gf FMJ on H4895 and work very hard to keep them consistent in the process. Never mix brass. Measure carefully. Be anal about case length and brass prep.

I don't crimp 223.

That gets me about 1moa at 100 yards.

My accuracy load I use in ARs is a 69gr SMKBT with varget.

 

[orygun]

I smoke the bullet with a candle. Seat it 'til it touches the lands hard enough to show in the soot, then back it off .010". That's where I start.

 

[DizzyJ]

Good post pharm. What you are doing is finding the accuracy node. You could also do it by not messing with the oal and just finding the right powder charge. Let me demonstrate:

All loads .020" off the lands:

40 grains of powder:
View attachment 528041

40.5 grains:
View attachment 528042

41 grains:
View attachment 528043

Many ways to skin a cat, but I know my way is not going to leave me with a bullet lodged in the lands, when I'm at the range or out hunting...

I load my creedmoor the same way:
View attachment 528044
This is a savage 12fv by the way. I'm thinking about buying a .223 rem like the OP has. Load development should be a breeze.

One of my last purchases was a stevens 200 22-250. Load it the same way:
View attachment 528045
View attachment 528046
.020" off the lands and find the right powder charge. Now days they call it optimum charge wt (OCW). I've been calling it working up the load...
Pharm, I'm actually surprised you haven't shot the moa all day long challenge over at the other place. Looks like your rifles perform well. Just out of curiosity, how do your 10 shot groups look?

Nice groups.

I can't speak for pharmseller, but from reading his posts, I imagine he does vary the powder charge. He just starts closer to the lands. Same thing I do. Once the powder charge is determined, THEN one can play with bullet seating depth to fine tune the load. I've got some loads that work very well jammed into the lands. Others are more accurate a little ways off the lands.

The OCW is a specific method that looks for consistency over several powder charges. When you've found several different charges that places the bullet in the same location on the target, you have found the OCW. Then you fine tune with bullet seating depth. It's not the same as what we would call a "regular load work up" where we're just looking for the smallest group. The OCW is looking for consistency over a broad range of charge weights. It's designed to help with long range accuracy, not just tiny groups @100 yards.

OCW test example - Dan Newberry's OCW Load Development System

 

[DizzyJ]

I don't load that way for magazines. I do everything single shot.

For ARs I load as far to the lands as I can that fit in the mag but I shoot 55gf FMJ on H4895 and work very hard to keep them consistent in the process. Never mix brass. Measure carefully. Be anal about case length and brass prep.

I don't crimp 223.

That gets me about 1moa at 100 yards.

My accuracy load I use in ARs is a 69gr SMKBT with varget.

For the ARs, I load out as far as the magazine will let me too. It appears pharmsellers bolt action magazines will allow him to load pretty far out while still fitting into its magazine. My Savage bolt action rifles also allow me to do this.

Now I am wanting to measure OAL on my loads to see how far they actually stick out!

Oh, I've yet to crimp any rifle rounds myself. So far I've not seen a need to do so even in magazine fed ARs. .0025"- .003" neck tension seems to hold them in place fairly well.

 

[daved20319]

Thanks for the continuing conversation, guys. I'm going with the most common suggestion, .020" off the lands to start. As I said earlier, this is a bolt action that I have set up as a single shot, so mag length isn't a consideration. BTW, the OCW method is what I do, it just makes sense to me, and that means I don't have to think about it too much . As suggested, once I figure out my best charge weight, then I'll play around with OAL a little. Got one batch loaded up last night, so that still leaves me 5 more bullets, 2 more powders, and 3 different primers. Even without being able to shoot for awhile, I'll have plenty of reloading to keep me busy this winter . And if that still runs out, I still have some tinkering I want to do on my rifle, my current single shot sled is kind of Mickey Moused, I'm planning on milling a solid steel block that will fit the blind mag hole, as well as fitting in the action a bit better. If nothing else, it'll look better, and the extra weight won't hurt, either. It is a bench rifle, after all. And the pillars I turned came out nice, I did a two piece front pillar, the escutcheon looks really good . How's that for a segue into a couple of brag pics ?

 

[Goosebrown]

Distance from the lands is a tuning point butt it's like a fine tune dial. No point in worrying about that till you get the charge right or at least narrowed down.

Most important is BE CONSISTANT

Write it down. Work from notes.

28.8gr can turn to 28.6 in your mind pretty easily over time.

I agree on bolt magazines. You have much more leeway

 

[Goosebrown]

Hell of a deal. Mine was $219 after all the rebates last year. They didn't do that this year BTW

 

[Otter]

I smoke the bullet with a candle. Seat it 'til it touches the lands hard enough to show in the soot, then back it off .010". That's where I start.

Any reason you go that far off to start? I often find best accuracy closer than that, and even into the lands. Or do you start there and work both ways?

I don't have time to experiment with all the options, so I follow what Tony Boyer wrote in The Book of Rifle Accuracy. He adjusts powder charge and seating depth at the same time.

Do you guys use any wind indicators during load development?

 

[daved20319]

Hell of a deal. Mine was $219 after all the rebates last year. They didn't do that this year BTW

Same here, and mine ended up free, my little sister bought it for me for Christmas . Caught the scope on sale, so my total cost out of pocket was about $300 and a little machining time, I already had the metal on hand for the pillars. Even adding in the cost of the rifle, the total comes to less than $600, and it's a 1/2 MOA gun with factory loads, this is my first time working up loads specifically for this rifle. Not bad for a "budget" build . Later.

Dave

 

[ferret427]

Any reason you go that far off to start? I often find best accuracy closer than that, and even into the lands. Or do you start there and work both ways?

I don't have time to experiment with all the options, so I follow what Tony Boyer wrote in The Book of Rifle Accuracy. He adjusts powder charge and seating depth at the same time.

Do you guys use any wind indicators during load development?

I do most of my load development at 100 yards, and use a chronograph. What I want is the lowest possible extreme spread in velocities, under 10fps for a 5 or 10 round lot (depending on how much ammo I loaded up and how much I care). Wind is not a consideration, as I am looking for the least and most consistent vertical dispersion which is primarily a function that is measures by muzzle velocity.
For a bolt action, I usually start maybe .010 off the lands or to a few thousandths short of magazine length for ARs and look for a consistent load before messing with seating depth.
The effects of wind at distance is a complex factor that cannot be controlled by the internal ballistics that I am interested in during load development.
Even when shooting at distance during load development, such as a ladder test, it is all about vertical dispersion which is primarily a function of consistent internal ballistics leading to consistent muzzle velocity. Wind does not really come into it. Wind is a marksmanship/external ballistics issue.

 

[orygun]

Distance from the lands is a tuning point butt it's like a fine tune dial. No point in worrying about that till you get the charge right or at least narrowed down.

Yes, but you should know where you are to begin with, right? That's part of being consistent.

Any reason you go that far off to start? I often find best accuracy closer than that, and even into the lands. Or do you start there and work both ways?

I like to make sure they're not jammed because I tend to run fairly hot loads. If I put together a fast, consistent load that's a 1" (or there abouts) at 100 using a decent hunting bullet, I quit. Unfortunately I just haven't had the time to get nit-picky for quite a while.