My observations on the past month.

[Xaevian]

Adult temper tantrum.

Just mad that someone else didn't fight hard enough while they counted how many mags they already own and did nothing. If all of gun owners that do nothing to stop crap like this died tomorrow, the remaining 5% would lose nothing.

 

[Mikej]

Who cares right? As long as we get our guns NOW!

That's the thought process of a few vocal members around here. Again, true colors.

You going to start something to turn another discussion to the point you need to close it? Just sayin'.

 

[mhayd93]

This. The "liability," potential for someone bubbleguming up your life, lasts forever.

If 5 years from now someone gets shot, and the gun used was released w/o completion, you can bet that it would be used to at least harass if not attack the FFL who released it.

Shooter's Choice in South Carolina released a firearm to Dylann Roof under the 3-day rule. Dylann Roof then went on to shoot up a church in Charleston.

Shooter's Choice did not bear any of the responsibility, is still in business, and never had to pay any damages via civil or criminal court cases.

The whole fear of a lawsuit thing is ridiculous. The average citizen makes "potential lawsuit" decisions everyday, such as driving a car and all its related risks.

Again, I'm not jumping down the FFLs' throats for not following the 3-day rule; but a lot of people posting here are just as extreme on the other end, as if it's totally ridiculous to think an FFL should do it.

 

[GrayGoose]

Nobody "needs" adult diapers, make them take a diaper safety class to apply for a permit to purchase before their bubblegum explodes...

Also, nobody "needs" dildos, make them take a dildo safety class to apply for a permit to purchase dildos and demonstrate how to safely use them. Oh and lock them up when not in use to prevent children from accessing them.

Nobody needs more than one dildo!

 

[aflineman]

And in turn I will remember those that chose to make it more difficult to obtain firearms by choosing not to follow legal precedence. Those dealers like J & B should be praised for thier stance on the 3 day rule.

If they want to put their reputation and risk out there, more power to them. But, to beat up and shame FFLs who do not, will never win this fight we are in. The firearms' community is so fast to build up or tear down someone in a heartbeat. Especially from behind a keyboard, and there really is not much at stake for them personally. If folks got it together and fought the real fight, we would win. Instead, time and again, we concentrate on "who did what to whom for how many cookies". Rather than, how did this happen, how do we fix it, and how do we keep it from happening again. Not that long ago, I could buy a firearm from the Sears Catalog, and have it delivered to my door. Now we are complaining because an FFL will not take the real risk to release a firearm to us in 3 business days. WE ARE GOING TO LOSE ALL FIREARMS OWNERSHIP, IF WE DO NOT GET OUR ACT TOGETHER!!!!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

If they want to put their reputation and risk out there, more power to them. But, to beat up and shame FFLs who do not, will never win this fight we are in. The firearms' community is so fast to build up or tear down someone in a heartbeat. Especially from behind a keyboard, and there really is not much at stake for them personally. If folks got it together and fought the real fight, we would win. Instead, time and again, we concentrate on "who did what to whom for how many cookies". Rather than, how did this happen, how do we fix it, and how do we keep it from happening again. Not that long ago, I could buy a firearm from the Sears Catalog, and have it delivered to my door. Now we are complaining because an FFL will not take the real risk to release a firearm to us in 3 business days. WE ARE GOING TO LOSE ALL FIREARMS OWNERSHIP, IF WE DO NOT GET OUR ACT TOGETHER!!!!

Totally agree and I have been saying the same thing. We've got one guy in particular that sets a new little fire to fight pretty much once per day for the purpose of his own mental stimulation (I recognize it's out of a desire to "help", but it does the opposite). I know ADD is a thing but at some point the gun community has to reject endulging in distractions and eating our own and instead focus on the actual enemy (in this case LEVO and the broader anti-gun proponents). Infighting and lack of focus will kill us because we are up against an organized and well funded enemy. As I said earlier:

... Focusing on effective actions to fight m114 and prevent more of the same in the future is what we need to do.

It's a little bit like the enemy is setting little fires everywhere that we have to spend our energy putting out and keeps us from focusing on the task at hand. Except in this case we are the ones setting the fires through our lack of discipline and lack of focus. Not smart imo!

 

[Koda]

Shooter's Choice did not bear any of the responsibility, is still in business, and never had to pay any damages via civil or criminal court cases.

My guess is its a nightmare living with that decision made that day.

 

[deadeye]

Agree. Also the fact that this was coming and people saying "buy what you want now, don't wait until November" was said over and over since July (especially from @Alexx1401). Buyers that chose to wait cannot expect ffls to fix an emergency due to poor planning. I feel for the buyers, but at the same time it's not the FFLs fault that they waited.

This is pretty much the same reaction we have when ammunition becomes scarce. Blame the ammo suppliers, call everyone scalpers cause they cant get ammo for the same price they did a year or two ago. Blame the government for some conspiracy to keep people from getting ammo. When in fact they should have had a stockpile of the calibers they shoot most already.

I could go on but it never does any good kinda like leading that proverbial horse to water..........................

 

[mhayd93]

My guess is it's a nightmare living with that decision made that day.

A guess is just that.

Do you think the engineers of the Boeing 767 have nightmares living with the fact that they designed the airliners used to take down the WTC on 9/11?

Again, FFLs can do whatever they want, but it's weird that on a gun rights forum, so many people are having open animosity against people who want to receive their firearms under a perfectly legal 3-day rule. For the record, I understand that there are many people who are being unreasonably upset about FFLs not following that rule, and going way overboard with calls for boycotting.

That, however, does not mean their core point is invalid.

 

[RVTECH]

My guess is its a nightmare living with that decision made that day.

I agree.

Just because the FFL may not bear any legal responsibility does not mean they will not experience any guilt or emotions over it.

 

[Kruel J]

You going to start something to turn another discussion to the point you need to close it? Just sayin'.

The thread I closed was the first time I've closed a thread in months. And yes, I will post my opinions like everyone else.

 

[JRuby]

I guess no one should complain when it takes six months or longer to complete a background check if no one holds the state to a time line. I thought this system was sold to the public as an insta.check system.

 

[Kruel J]

I guess no one should complain when it takes six months or longer to complete a background check if no one holds the state to a time line. I thought this system was sold to the public as an insta.check system.

Unprecedented is unprecedented.

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

This is pretty much the same reaction we have when ammunition becomes scarce. Blame the ammo suppliers, call everyone scalpers cause they cant get ammo for the same price they did a year or two ago. Blame the government for some conspiracy to keep people from getting ammo. When in fact they should have had a stockpile of the calibers they shoot most already.

I could go on but it never does any good kinda like leading that proverbial horse to water..........................

They chose to be the grasshopper and not the ant !

 

[Danall]

following this thread it appears i should be happy that 114 removes the "3 day provision" and will result in a potential unlimited wait time.
So those that think its fine for gun dealers to not honor that provision must be in agreement of removing that evil "loophole".
That current 3 day provision was put in place by the lawmakers at the state and federal level.
I respect the courage of convictions of those shops that choose to honor the intent of that provision.
The other shops...well i will not bash them publicly here...but i have my own opinion on the matter, but i am not a shop owner so my opinion matters not a bit.

 

[Kruel J]

I think it's easier to form an opinion when it isn't your OWN livelihood at risk.

Not pointed at anyone in particular.


To add, I've been told by a few that the 3 day rule only applies once the BGC has been initiated, not just in the queue. I don't know if that's correct or not, but I trust my FFL completely that he's doing it right.

 

[Koda]

A guess is just that.

Do you think the engineers of the Boeing 767 have nightmares living with the fact that they designed the airliners used to take down the WTC on 9/11?

Again, FFLs can do whatever they want, but it's weird that on a gun rights forum, so many people are having open animosity against people who want to receive their firearms under a perfectly legal 3-day rule. For the record, I understand that there are many people who are being unreasonably upset about FFLs not following that rule, and going way overboard with calls for boycotting.

That, however, does not mean their core point is invalid.

Im gonna need a more relevant analogy to discuss than that. Boeing engineers didnt intentionally skirt an aerospace regulation to get a captain his 767 to exercise his privilege to fly people around.

My understanding is the FFLs who are exercising the 3 day rule are doing so as a political statement only. A huge FU to the 114 unconstitutional law, thats probably going to cause them to go out of business anyways. I dont suspect at all that they are not aware of the risks, morally and legally of releasing a gun to the wrong person.

The core point of those who are putting the other FFLs on blast is to shame or boycott them for not taking the same risk. That point is invalid.

 

[mhayd93]

Im gonna need a more relevant analogy to discuss than that. Boeing engineers didnt intentionally skirt an aerospace regulation to get a captain his 767 to exercise his privilege to fly people around.

My understanding is the FFLs who are exercising the 3 day rule are doing so as a political statement only. A huge FU to the 114 unconstitutional law, thats probably going to cause them to go out of business anyways. I dont suspect at all that they are not aware of the risks, morally and legally of releasing a gun to the wrong person.

The core point of those who are putting the other FFLs on blast is to shame or boycott them for not taking the same risk. That point is invalid.

The point of my analogy is you can trace secondary or tertiary moral "culpability" for just about any tragedy. If someone makes a choice to misuse an object that I legally sold, manufactured, designed, advertised, etc. then I have done no wrong; why would I have a guilty conscience? The person who should feel any sort of repercussions is the person who actually committed the crime.

If FFLs are gatekeeping firearms on the grounds of trying to avoid a guilty conscience, then yes, it is not unreasonable for a pro-2nd amendment individual to gripe and groan that they can't receive their firearm when they are stuck in BGC purgatory; especially when the 3-day rule exists.

 

[Member 34319]

Everyone has an opinion, or so that saying goes.

 

[Member 53328]

Well said. FFLs have families and a livelihood too…. They have to do what's best for them. If you don't like it go somewhere else.