Mountain Lion Defensive Pistol

[OldBroad44]

I don't think fire towers are manned anymore. They mostly rely on more technology based solutions from what I have read.

A shame. Those fire tower tenders were interesting characters.

 

[oremike]

I load a BN 18, 180 gr TC bullet in 10 mm. Out of a 6" barrel it runs 1300 fps. One of my customers downed an Elk while bow hunting but when he walked up on it, it started to get up so he pulled out his 10mm and shot it in the forehead. The bullet when thru the head, down the neck and broke the left shoulder when exiting the body.

 

[bbbass]

"If you can't shoot it, ram it"?

-Robert

FUG it!!

 

[OldBroad44]

I do my share of hiking and was just wondering.
Considering that a mountain lion around these parts might weigh up to 120lbs, what would you suggest for an occasional day hike?

I consider a gun the fourth line of defense. The first line of defense is to look up as well as around. Don't walk under any tree limbs that have cougars crouched on them ready to pounce. Second line of defense: Watch your back trail. And the areas to the left and right of the back trail too, as cougar may stalk parallel to your back trail rather than on it. Third line of defense: Leave the ear buds and music at home when walking, running, biking, or just being outdoors. Deafening yourself to the sounds from your environment doesn't enhance situational awareness.

 

[rednek80]

What if it's this big?

 

[The Heretic]

What if it's this big?

View attachment 995363

That is a fat cat

 

[Certaindeaf]

That is a fat cat

It sure makes Bilbo look small.

 

[OldBroad44]

That is a fat cat

Its a big cat, but not much thicker than a smaller cat. And standard SD guns and loads are expected to be able to deal with big fat humans, who can run 300 lbs or more. So I still say that if all you're concerned with is bad humans and cougars you don't need anything special for the cougar beyond what you would carry for SD against people. But I still also say if there are cougars there are also bears, and bears are much more likely to cause problems than cougars. So asking what you need for SD against cougars alone with no bears is an impractical question. If you are going into places with large predators, the practical question is what do I need for SD against bad humans, cougar, and bears. And for SD against bears you DO need more than for SD against humans/cougar.

 

[clanhanson]

You'll never know it's there until it's on you. You're in their domain and they decide what to do, and chances are you've been watched closely before. The best defense is fighting back, protecting your neck, and a knife. In the off chance you do have time to draw a pistol, you're unlikely to hit it anyway under duress. I'd much rather have bear spray, predators don't like their senses screwed with.

 

[Xaevian]

You are more likely to die from a falling coconut, so I bring a lime to put in it.

 

[The Heretic]

You are more likely to die from a falling coconut, so I bring a lime to put in it.

Only if you go somewhere that there are coconut trees.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Only if you go somewhere that there are coconut trees.

 

[OldBroad44]

You'll never know it's there until it's on you. You're in their domain and they decide what to do, and chances are you've been watched closely before. The best defense is fighting back, protecting your neck, and a knife. In the off chance you do have time to draw a pistol, you're unlikely to hit it anyway under duress. I'd much rather have bear spray, predators don't like their senses screwed with.

It's more my domain than theirs. I've been living in this house and neighborhood for 26 years. Our resident cougar has been here less than 10. There was no resident cougar before her. Her presence is obvious because she screams occasionally and leaves big paw prints in peoples gardens occasionally, and leaves remains from deer kills around regularly. She operates at night, doesn't do anything rude like stalking humans, and has really helped with the deer overpopulation. Everyone here has guns, so no one is worried. She raised a couple of cubs at least one year. We humans in this neighborhood decided what to do about the cougar, not the reverse. And we decided to gossip about her and appreciate her ecological services.

The black bear that showed up in my back yard was likely a young male looking for a duck dinner and a territory. He refused to shoo when I spotlighted and yelled at him. After I put a shot in the ground next to him he changed his dinner plans and was never seen around here again. Had he come back, I would have shot him. I normally take a first approach of training would-be duck predators rather than killing them. About 2/3 of them are trainable. But its two strikes and they're out. The bear was in my territory, my domain, and I decided what to do with him, not the reverse.

The three times I needed to draw and point my gun fast, it was so fast that the gun seemed to just appear in my hands the instant I perceived the threat. It must have taken a very small fraction of a second to draw and point. I of course had practiced that with an empty gun. There's no way I could draw a knife faster. And no way I could fight a bear better with a knife than a gun. A knife wound, even deep, might not even be noticed by an attacking animal. A gun wound from a serious caliber is likely to end the fight with cougar or black bear, which usually cease an attack and run if hurt. (Which is not true for grizzlies.) And if a bear or cougar was already on you before you knew about it, bear spray is a poor weapon. It is totally ineffective unless it hits eyes or face, which you might be unable to reach. Or hit without hitting your own eyes too.

The one time I surprised a bear at close range (22 feet) out in the woods, I knew about him before he knew about me. There was a cross wind. He was in a berry thicket making a lot of noise. I had a 6" Ruger Security Six .357 mag out and pointed at him and a good protection dog between us by the time the bear emerged and saw us. I could have shot the bear. Instead, the bear, dog, and I were motionless for about thirty very long seconds. Then the bear ran. That was, in fact, arguably more the bear's domain than mine. But I'm the one that decided the fate of the bear, not the reverse.

 

[sobo]

I *knew* someone would find it...

 

[Bon Sauvage]

What if it's this big?

View attachment 995363

Save the last bullet for yourself.

 

[clanhanson]

It's more my domain than theirs. I've been living in this house and neighborhood for 26 years. Our resident cougar has been here less than 10. There was no resident cougar before her. Her presence is obvious because she screams occasionally and leaves big paw prints in peoples gardens occasionally, and leaves remains from deer kills around regularly. She operates at night, doesn't do anything rude like stalking humans, and has really helped with the deer overpopulation. Everyone here has guns, so no one is worried. She raised a couple of cubs at least one year. We humans in this neighborhood decided what to do about the cougar, not the reverse. And we decided to gossip about her and appreciate her ecological services.

The black bear that showed up in my back yard was likely a young male looking for a duck dinner and a territory. He refused to shoo when I spotlighted and yelled at him. After I put a shot in the ground next to him he changed his dinner plans and was never seen around here again. Had he come back, I would have shot him. I normally take a first approach of training would-be duck predators rather than killing them. About 2/3 of them are trainable. But its two strikes and they're out. The bear was in my territory, my domain, and I decided what to do with him, not the reverse.

The three times I needed to draw and point my gun fast, it was so fast that the gun seemed to just appear in my hands the instant I perceived the threat. It must have taken a very small fraction of a second to draw and point. I of course had practiced that with an empty gun. There's no way I could draw a knife faster. And no way I could fight a bear better with a knife than a gun. A knife wound, even deep, might not even be noticed by an attacking animal. A gun wound from a serious caliber is likely to end the fight with cougar or black bear, which usually cease an attack and run if hurt. (Which is not true for grizzlies.) And if a bear or cougar was already on you before you knew about it, bear spray is a poor weapon. It is totally ineffective unless it hits eyes or face, which you might be unable to reach. Or hit without hitting your own eyes too.

The one time I surprised a bear at close range (22 feet) out in the woods, I knew about him before he knew about me. There was a cross wind. He was in a berry thicket making a lot of noise. I had a 6" Ruger Security Six .357 mag out and pointed at him and a good protection dog between us by the time the bear emerged and saw us. I could have shot the bear. Instead, the bear, dog, and I were motionless for about thirty very long seconds. Then the bear ran. That was, in fact, arguably more the bear's domain than mine. But I'm the one that decided the fate of the bear, not the reverse.

Confidence is key. Not many are faster than a bear or mountain lion. You should hit up Marvel's casting crew!

And using a deer cartridge (.357) against bear is another risk unless you have perfect shot placement. Even then, the small sectional area and lacking energy of the round don't help.

 

[Dozer99]

I don't think fire towers are manned anymore. They mostly rely on more technology based solutions from what I have read.

Most of the Lookout towers are manned in southern Oregon. Well the ones that aren't on fire currently are anyways!

 

[Pandaz3]

The mention of earbuds was certainly valid, but with old age I would like to wear hearing aids to help my awareness, also A bike helmet with some chainmail for the back of the neck.

.22 Mag and up should work.

 

[oremike]

Confidence is key. Not many are faster than a bear or mountain lion. You should hit up Marvel's casting crew!

And using a deer cartridge (.357) against bear is another risk unless you have perfect shot placement. Even then, the small sectional area and lacking energy of the round don't help.

Here is an interesting bit of caliber trivia (at least I think so) the 10 mm was developed to replicate the preformance of a 357 Magnum loaded with 180gr hard cast bullets. The idea was to be able to shoot thru both sides of a car and knock a bad guy over on the other side even if they were wearing body armor. My 180gr TC 10 mm load out of a 6" Glock g 40 barrel runs an average of 1300fps and my 180 gr TC load out of my 4" GP-100 runs an average of just under 1200fps. Niether bullet will expand so the idea is to hit the spine to neutralize the threat.

 

[OldBroad44]

Confidence is key. Not many are faster than a bear or mountain lion. You should hit up Marvel's casting crew!

And using a deer cartridge (.357) against bear is another risk unless you have perfect shot placement. Even then, the small sectional area and lacking energy of the round don't help.

A .357 mag with 180 grain flat nose hardcast bear loads should have no trouble penetrating a black bear skull. If you hit the bear anywhere else, its unlikely to kill the bear instantly but likely to end the attack instantly anyway because injured black bears normally cease attacking and run if injured. And if the bear is too obnoxious to act like most bears and continues attacking after wounded, well, all we can do is up the odds in our favor. I DID feel confident in that situation. Not just because of the gun, though, but because of the half-Chow dog who had deployed herself silently between the bear and I so that when the bear emerged from the thicket it was faced off against a dog a mere 12' away and a human another ten feet beyond the dog. And I was as familiar with the dog as the gun. Had the bear attacked, it would have attacked the dog. She would have made sure of that. And my problem would have been to kill the bear while it was being baited by and distracted by the dog. As SD against a black bear I would have put that dog as a better weapon of SD than any gun.

But the fact is, there is no way to be safe until you're already in the grave. No weapon is going to make us safe against all possible scenarios. And sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you. I learned that expression from an Adirondack mountain man whose grandfather was killed by a bear in his own kitchen.