Minnesota, here we go again. I'm betting ammo/gun sales are brisk

[slimmer13]

This thread is devolving into the absurd. Bottom line is that we should be pouring dollars into our police before gender studies in Pakistan. We should be hiring the best candidates possible and training them extensively.

With the number of interactions every year, and the volatility in society that's been created, it's a wonder there isn't more outcomes like this one.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Bottom line is that we should be pouring dollars into our police

I'm not convinced it's a problem of budget size as opposed to focus, but it is a systemic issue.

 

[Member 53328]

This thread is devolving into the absurd. Bottom line is that we should be pouring dollars into our police before gender studies in Pakistan. We should be hiring the best candidates possible and training them extensively.

With the number of interactions every year, and the volatility in society that's been created, it's a wonder there isn't more outcomes like this one.

If only we could get politicians to allocate the money correctly. Where it is actually needed. We need to be spending more money on training and trash the social diversity hiring process.

 

[slimmer13]

I'm not convinced it's a problem of budget size as opposed to focus, but it is a systemic issue.

I do think it's a training issue. Training=$$$. Her heart rate and BP and stress level were at 11 and she failed. Better, ongoing training with better candidates and these types of things happen less.

 

[Member 53328]

I do think it's a training issue. Training=$$$. Her heart rate and BP and stress level were at 11 and she failed. Better, ongoing training with better candidates and these types of things happen less.

Better candidates. Better mindset. Better training. Better verbal judo. Better interaction. Better presence. Better deescalation. We all can improve.

 

[slimmer13]

Better candidates. Better mindset. Better training. Better verbal judo. Better interaction. Better presence. Better deescalation. We all can improve.

How do you deescalate placing a person under arrest for a warrant and they resist?

 

[Dinglenutz]

I do think it's a training issue.

I agree. I just think if we stopped making criminals rich by outlawing things like substances and other vices, we could have much more money to train and the criminals would lose huge quantities of their revenue stream.

Fewer laws, better laws, better enforced.

 

[OrPackrat]

My .02, guy being arrested. Had he not attempted to flee, he would still be alive.

In terms of being shot and killed, that's on the officer, poor training, whatever, a bright yellow taser vs a black pistol, sure adrenaline and such, weight and feel differences fall away.

Officer still at fault for grabbing the wrong tool and instead of using the taser, shot ant ultimately killed this person...

Had this person not run, issue would not have come to him getting killed.

Both at fault...

 

[titsonritz]

He posed no threat to lives. He made a dumb arse decision to try and bolt but nowhere in that video do I see the need for lethal force. And before anyone tries to use the car as a possible weapon, yes I thought of that. He DID manage to drive off, after the shot when the LE kinda did a double take on what just happened. Then he died 3 blocks later, he was likely already "dead" when he put the trans in drive.

His warrant was for having a firearm, and they all knew it. Ultimately she did make a mistake, but no, it's not all her fault. The fact that the decedent could have prevented this in multiple ways is clear proof it's not all someone else's fault. Some, certainly, mostly, possibly, completely, no.

The other thing is that despite assertions to the contrary, the only actual warrant I could find was the one I posted above, which was for breaking a law that shouldn't be a law. So that's an additional layer of injustice IMO.

None of that matters. Had she intended to shoot him because she perceived him a deadly threat that would be one thing, but she didn't, she intended to tase the guy, even called it out, instead she shot him and shoked the hell out of herself. She knew she screwed up, called that out, too. The look on the black cops face says it all.

 

[CRBMoA]

How do you deescalate placing a person under arrest for a warrant and they resist?

First off - Don't just threaten to Taze them and then cap them.

 

[Member 53328]

How do you deescalate placing a person under arrest for a warrant and they resist?

It starts way before hand irons even come out.

 

[Dinglenutz]

But I do truly believe more and more that black people are treated differently in day to day interactions with LE.

There are studies on that too. The differences with which force is applied and escalated exist, but are not really huge, and white subjects are more likely to be killed, whereas blacks are a bit more likely to be treated roughly. Whether that's due to differences in subject behavior, police behavior, or what else I have never read.

Maybe the white folks just had it comin', ya know?

 

[titsonritz]

First off - Don't just threaten to Taze them and then cap them.

She wasn't threatening to taze him, she was "communicating" with her fellow officers, but she paniced and shot him instead. Listen to her voice, she was in freak out mode.

 

[Dinglenutz]

She wasn't threatening to taze him, she was "communicating" with her fellow officers, but she paniced and shot him instead. Listen to her voice, she was in freak out mode.

It had the tone of a keyword that was meant to inform others "this guy is about to become electrically charged, turn loose and stand aside" to me but I'm not a LEO.

 

[bbbass]

This thread is devolving into the absurd. Bottom line is that we should be pouring dollars into our police before gender studies in Pakistan. We should be hiring the best candidates possible and training them extensively.

With the number of interactions every year, and the volatility in society that's been created, it's a wonder there isn't more outcomes like this one.

These types of threads ALWAYS devolve.

The problem I am seeing more and more is that people are not reading the thread, not reading others posts accurately, misunderstanding others posts, misconstrueing others posts, making stupid accusations/assumptions about others statements or intent, and ignoring facts already in evidence. Ya'll would FAIL on a jury. That's why I behave myself.

None of that matters. Had she intended to shoot him because she perceived him a deadly threat that would be one thing, but she didn't, she intended to tase the guy, even called it out, instead she shot him and shoked the hell out of herself. She knew she screwed up, called that out, too. The look on the black cops face says it all.

^^^ THIS ^^^

I'm as done with this thread as I am disgusted by many of the posts here...

 

[CRBMoA]

She wasn't threatening to taze him, she was "communicating" with her fellow officers, but she paniced and shot him instead. Listen to her voice, she was in freak out mode.

Actually, that is a fair point, and I will admit that I am NOT a LEO.

I listened again with the sound up louder and what I misheard as a warning was in fact her freaking out over a guy sitting in car.

Priors and intent of the decedent are moot points.

At the end of the day, she had no reason or intent to kill him.

But I have to ask; if that is how well she handles a traffic stop, how in the HELL did she make it 25 years before becoming famous?

 

[RVTECH]

It starts way before hand irons even come out.

This is true - it's called 'communication' and if used properly you can often get a person (even if aggressive) to calm down and 'cooperate' if applied properly.

Rise, or lower, yourself to the person you have apprehended and communicate with him/her on that level. 'Trash talk' if that's the 'element' you are dealing with or bring it up to Roget's Thesaurus if it's Ken and Barbie with a little too much booze on their breath after leaving the cotillion.

Regardless, as an LEO your demeanor, and ability to quickly 'modify' your communication can go a long way to keeping a situation from escalating.

Unfortunately too many LEOS do not have the 'intellect' to do this and go 'cro magnon' at the outset of an interaction when it might have been mitigated with a better 'one on one' with the subject(s).

 

[Darby Darrow]

I understand that. And I know more white people are killed than other races. But I do truly believe more and more that black people are treated differently in day to day interactions with LE. I would have never said that in the past but when things like this keep happening we have to reevaluate some things. Profiling is real. Whether your white trash or a gang banger.

WSU did a study and it showed that officers were very slow to black unarmed suspects than unarmed white suspects.

This study found race matters in police shootings, but the results may surprise you | Washington State University College of Nursing | Washington State University

nursing.wsu.edu

 

[Member 53328]

This is true - it's called 'communication' and if used properly you can often get a person (even if aggressive) to calm down and 'cooperate' if applied properly.

Rise, or lower, yourself to the person you have apprehended and communicate with him/her on that level. 'Trash talk' if that's the 'element' you are dealing with or bring it up to Roget's Thesaurus if it's Ken and Barbie with a little too much booze on their breath after leaving the cotillion.

Regardless, as an LEO your demeanor, and ability to quickly 'modify' your communication can go a long way to keeping a situation from escalating.

Unfortunately too many LEOS do not have the 'intellect' to do this and go pretty 'cro magnon' at the outset of an interaction when it might have been mitigated with some creative communication.

Thank you for explaining that. Now I don't have to type a novel. Technology has ruined in person communication. Most people struggle with it now. As LE you will interact with people from all different walks of life in a myriad of situations from non life threatening to death. If you understand the importance of communication and presence you will be amazed at what you can accomplish without using any force. Like you perfectly said - raise or lower yourself to the understanding of the person you are dealing with. It is the cops responsibility to control the situation and in many instances it can be done with body language and words. Sorry it's not all guns, sirens, and joint manipulation.

 

[Darby Darrow]

How do you deescalate placing a person under arrest for a warrant and they resist?

With empty hand skills. When officers don't have the empty hand skills they more quickly transition to technological tools.