Minnesota, here we go again. I'm betting ammo/gun sales are brisk

[Member 53328]

WSU did a study and it showed that officers were very slow to black unarmed suspects than unarmed white suspects.

This study found race matters in police shootings, but the results may surprise you | Washington State University College of Nursing | Washington State University

nursing.wsu.edu

I'm not talking shootings specifically. I'm talking interaction, profiling, and judgment as a generalization.

 

[Member 34319]

Question...

Do you think his traffic stop was legal?

This has been a thing that has been plaguing traffic stops lately. The moral and legal reasons people get pulled over. Speeding is one thing, and it's pretty obvious, it is illegal and will lead to a traffic stop. Tags, well tags are expired all over. That and registration CAN be valid with a bad tag. He'll, my local LEO stated (early Covid last year) they were being instructed not to patrol for tags. My neighbors daughters tags have been expired for well over two years.

Warrants? Without an infraction, why would a cop be running plates? That's if he was the one registered to the vehicle. Sure cops can run plates these days for whatever, but is that ethical if no law was broken? Cops NEED legal reasons to detain.

I truly believe the initial officer likely pulled him over illegally. The guy likely stood his ground, which is actually a pretty PATRIOTIC thing to do if you ask me. If you know you didn't do anything wrong, why should you comply to every command an officer demands of you if they started the whole interaction with an unethical act? From there I imagine the officer tried using COMMON police training to get the guy to admit to doing something illegal, especially if they didn't have his information yet and didn't know about his warrants. The officer likely then brought up the air freshener and switched tactics since he illegally detained the guy to find a reason for his unlawful stop.

This sort of thing has been taking place a lot lately. People are equipping themselves with knowledge of the laws, dash cameras, and other means of defending themselves against the unlawful tactics occurring on our streets.

This poor soul, likely ran his mouth a bit too much, and obviously made the poor decision to run. However, I don't place the blame on him, these days I've witnessed and watched enough footage of police interactions to get a clearer picture.

For anyone interested. I highly recommend spending some time watching some videos on the YouTube Channel AudittheAudit. There are many many cases on that channel where the only reason police escalation occurs is because of the color of ones skin. Most of the time, it all starts with unethical and highly questionable traffic stops.

Here is one for example.

 

[A2theK]

They are neon yellow..... and made completely of plastic and don't weigh a fraction of a loaded Glock. They are pretty different already. We shouldn't change things just because she messed up. It's on her. If you TRAIN you don't make these mistakes.

 

[A2theK]

New equipment???

 

[Member 53328]

Question...

Do you think his traffic stop was legal?

This has been a thing that has been plaguing traffic stops lately. The moral and legal reasons people get pulled over. Speeding is one thing, and it's pretty obvious, it is illegal and will lead to a traffic stop. Tags, well tags are expired all over. That and registration CAN be valid with a bad tag. He'll, my local LEO stated (early Covid last year) they were being instructed not to patrol for tags. My neighbors daughters tags have been expired for well over two years.

Warrants? Without an infraction, why would a cop be running plates? That's if he was the one registered to the vehicle. Sure cops can run plates these days for whatever, but is that ethical if no law was broken? Cops NEED legal reasons to detain.

I truly believe the initial officer likely pulled him over illegally. The guy likely stood his ground, which is actually a pretty PATRIOTIC thing to do if you ask me. If you know you didn't do anything wrong, why should you comply to every command an officer demands of you if they started the whole interaction with an unethical act? From there I imagine the officer tried using COMMON police training to get the guy to admit to doing something illegal, especially if they didn't have his information yet and didn't know about his warrants. The officer likely then brought up the air freshener and switched tactics since he illegally detained the guy to find a reason for his unlawful stop.

This sort of thing has been taking place a lot lately. People are equipping themselves with knowledge of the laws, dash cameras, and other means of defending themselves against the unlawful tactics occurring on our streets.

This poor soul, likely ran his mouth a bit too much, and obviously made the poor decision to run. However, I don't place the blame on him, these days I've witnessed and watched enough footage of police interactions to get a clearer picture.

For anyone interested. I highly recommend spending some time watching some videos on the YouTube Channel AudittheAudit. There are many many cases on that channel where the only reason police escalation occurs is because of the color of ones skin. Most of the time, it all starts with unethical and highly questionable traffic stops.

Here is one for example.

It all depends on that states legal code. And what constitutes probable cause. Tint, tail lights, exhaust, obstruction from the from windshield, tags, lane change, turn signal, etc. if it's on the books than it is technically legal. Even if they are using it to expand a search. Reasonable suspicion can warrant a stop if probable cause can be proven. If you ever do a ride along you will notice LEO run tags all day long looking for warrants, stolen cars, ect.

 

[Member 34319]

Another example. Imagine if this young man decided to not comply?

 

[mrblond]

makes me wonder if those 25 years she was an officer were not spent behind a desk.. and due to the whole defund thing, they had to move her tot he street

 

[Member 53328]

Another example. Imagine if this young man decided to not comply?

There is also a lot of case law with things like this (clear view doctrine ect.) But you have to be careful of fruit from the poisonous tree. The wrong traffic stop initiated without probable will get the whole case kicked. And the department will be financially responsible.

 

[RVTECH]

Thank you for explaining that. Now I don't have to type a novel.

Communication has always been my 'strong suite' and as an MP in the USAF I applied it well, and later in civilian life in business.

The owners of the last company I worked for would occasionally ask me if I would meet with a customer as a 'last ditch' effort to resolve a problem - even if the issue was not necessarily related to my department. Regardless of this my overall experience in the industry allowed me to discuss issues at many levels and often I was able to facilitate an agreeable outcome with the customer.

 

[Member 34319]

There is also a lot of case law with things like this (clear view doctrine ect.) But you have to be careful of fruit from the poisonous tree. The wrong traffic stop initiated without probable will get the whole case kicked. And the department will be financially responsible.

I'm getting to the point of belief that if we started holding the officers financially responsible instead of the tax payer backed department, this stuff would end rather quickly...

 

[ilikegunspdx]

It all depends on that states legal code. And what constitutes probable cause. Tint, tail lights, exhaust, obstruction from the from windshield, tags, lane change, turn signal, etc. if it's on the books than it is technically legal. Even if they are using it to expand a search. Reasonable suspicion can warrant a stop if probable cause can be proven. If you ever do a ride along you will notice LEO run tags all day long looking for warrants, stolen cars, ect.

Also some cops cars have automatic cameras that read license plates as they go and alert the officer if one pops up as stolen etc. Portland has some of these. Can't remember the acronym for them.

edit: found the acronym - ALPR

the problem in Portland is they long ago stopped pulling poeple over. I see tons of cars with no plates at all running around. My guess is that a lot of them are stolen.

 

[Member 53328]

Communication has always been my 'strong suite' and as an MP in the USAF I applied it well, and later in civilian life in business.

The owners of the last company I worked for would occasionally ask me if I would meet with a customer as a 'last ditch' effort to resolve a problem - even if the issue was not necessarily related to my department. Regardless of this my overall experience in the industry allowed me to discuss issues at many levels and often I was able to facilitate an agreeable outcome with the customer.

I was also a MP in the Marine Corps and learned how to talk to people. Whether it was a private that had just been raped or a Sgt Maj who intoxicated. Eventually I was a patrol supervisor, FTO, watch commander as well as a desk sergeant and dealt with a lot of incidents that were resolved by communication. Not all but a fair amount.

 

[RVTECH]

as well as a desk sergeant

LOL ! I eventually was 'asked' (not directed) to start working as a Desk Sergeant and for similar reasons - they wanted someone who could communicate clearly, think quickly and carry out 'desk duties'.

I agreed but only if they left me one day of the week to patrol as I had many friends on base I enjoyed seeing on a regular basis while on duty!

 

[EHJ]

Communication has always been my 'strong suite' and as an MP in the USAF I applied it well, and later in civilian life in business.

The owners of the last company I worked for would occasionally ask me if I would meet with a customer as a 'last ditch' effort to resolve a problem - even if the issue was not necessarily related to my department. Regardless of this my overall experience in the industry allowed me to discuss issues at many levels and often I was able to facilitate an agreeable outcome with the customer.

Appreciated here, too.
Especially since you referenced yourself as an MP in the AF.
Nobody knows what the hell an SP is.
Except another Airman.

 

[RVTECH]

Nobody knows what the hell an SP is.
Except another Airman.

Yep, I was an 81152 - and desk duty was often pretty stressful.....

 

[Certaindeaf]

I do think it's a training issue. Training=$$$. Her heart rate and BP and stress level were at 11 and she failed. Better, ongoing training with better candidates and these types of things happen less.

I honestly don't think it's a training issue per se. Indeed, cops are generally grossly overworked as a rule and with lots of mandatory, ever increasing, training on top of it all, year after year. They need more frontline personnel.

 

[Member 53328]

Quarterly or annual training doesn't qualify as "enough" in my opinion. I think it should be more like a cycle. 3 months training. 6 months on duty. 3 months training. Now this would obviously mean you would have to hire a ton more LEOs which simply isn't in the "budget."

 

[EHJ]

Yep, I was an 81152 - and desk duty was often pretty stressful.....

View attachment 861366

Was this Pre - or Post K-38's?

 

[Knobgoblin]

Let's do a comparison of two threads. This one and the one with the yahoo pointing a gun at the motorcycle folk. To compare thought process and mental bias for cops among this community.

Example one, idiots being idiots on motorcycles. Guy points gun at idiots, he is not a cop. Everyone here unanimously decided this guy is in the wrong. Should not have pointed gun at idiots. Imagine if this guy shot and killed one of those idiots. Could he state he accidentally pulled the trigger? Or could he state he didn't know he had the gun loaded and it was an accident? Or would it be murder?

This scenario, a veteran cop, pulls gun. Points gun at an idiot. I say idiot, because yes, though I believe he likely was acting in defiance because of the usual over escalation of cops, the smart thing to do is to comply even if the cops are in the wrong. Cop continues to point gun at unarmed idiot. Cop shoots idiot. Cop gets off on "accident" for shooting and killing person.

Yes there are a bunch of drastic differences between the two, but at the heart of each, someone is pointing a gun at a person where a gun isn't needed. One gets a pass and one doesn't.

I had that geezer thread on my mind when I first saw this OIS story break.

We're on the same page (mostly).

Kids do dumb stuff. Both situations share this foundation.

 

[RVTECH]

Was this Pre - or Post K-38's

Well, at the time currently K-38s but nearing the end of them!

I already Owned a Mod 19 when I went in the AF so it wasn't anything 'unknown'.