Medford Police: Being "Proactive"

[Partsproduction]

After reading this I had to donate to OFF. Keep the gun grabbing criminals in uniform OFF me!

What I really can't understand is why anyone in this forum would defend this kind of thing. Would you like to be treated this way? Think about it, really, would you like to be handcuffed and taken away when you have done nothing wrong? Would you like it if that were done after you were told you wouldn't be handcuffed?

Well heck, no big deal, it didn't happen to me!

That's the part I have trouble understanding, not that people in authority overstep their bounds (SHOCK! :winkkiss, but that people living in the sweet land of liberty actually defend them! And in a gun forum!

I wasn't there. Unless the facts reported are not true those facts are plenty enough to condemn the authorities in this case. No secret information is needed, and if you need secret information you don't have a case!

 

[Jamie6.5]

Good post. Just one more thing. This guy contacted the local paper, gave them his name and the brief story. Then it hit the news.
The police didn't bring him to public attention. He did.

Nice try Gunner. The original story was based on a press release by the police agencies involved.
The later stories were based on the CC'd e-mails Mr. Pyle wrote/sent.
Excerpt from Mail Tribune Story:

Negotiators and a SWAT team from Medford police safely took a man — whose name wasn't released — into protective custody Monday morning in the 500 block of Effie Street, Medford police said in a news release.

That's what bothers us all about your willful ignorance,...
You don't even believe what the police agencies involved told the press.

I didn't have to be there to believe what the police said, I'll take them at their word.
They screwed up. You said it best, they are just people. Well guess what? People make mistakes.
They sure did in this case, and they were pounding their chests over it until Constitutionalists started questioning their "proactive" procedures.

Your decision to support them because they're your buddies doesn't change that. And now that you've admitted it, we know you have a "dog-in-the-fight" that is affecting your objectivity.

Game over. Now it's up to the court(s).

 

[shibbershabber]

While this post wasnt directed at me, I felt compelled to address it

I can see this thread circling the drain... may as well have another go at it

You haven't responded to any of my points or my questions. You have sunk to simply attacking the messenger. You can't raise an intelligent debate.

I would argue that you have made few points and your questions were irrelevant. AND that you have resorted to "attacking the messenger" many times in this thread in one way or another.

And as far as intelligent debate goes, even if one were raised, you would be the last to contribute.

There is something wrong with your mind.

See my previous comments about you resorting to name calling to "out-wit" other posters

You don't know any of what My Pyles did or why he doesn't appear to want to talk about what he did, yet you blindly defend him.

That is correct. Mr. Pyles is a good person who is obviously not as disgruntled as everyone accused him of being. You want to know why he doesnt appear to want to talk about it? HE PROBABLY WANTS TO BE LEFT ALONE TO GO ABOUT HIS LIFE IN PEACE...

Im going to go out on a limb here... but this incident, combined with the loss of his job has probably turned his life upside down. All because of what is probably a personal conflict with his supervisor, who made accusations against him that were baseless... even your beloved coalition of police departments now have to admit to.

We blindly defend him on PRINCIPLE, something you likely lack. Unless he made specific threats, there was no reason to do this.

So... on PRINCIPLE and respect for the rights of our fellow AMERICANS we are standing by him in this and calling out the departments that railroaded him.

Now, since even after I apologize for misspeaking, you still want to attack my honor, I'm finished with you.

Yeah, just like the other two times you were "finished" with this thread?
You have finished again... but you continued another 5 pages.

 

[56kninja]

After reading this I had to donate to OFF. Keep the gun grabbing criminals in uniform OFF me!

What I really can't understand is why anyone in this forum would defend this kind of thing. Would you like to be treated this way? Think about it, really, would you like to be handcuffed and taken away when you have done nothing wrong? Would you like it if that were done after you were told you wouldn't be handcuffed?

Well heck, no big deal, it didn't happen to me!

That's the part I have trouble understanding, not that people in authority overstep their bounds (SHOCK! :winkkiss, but that people living in the sweet land of liberty actually defend them! And in a gun forum!

I wasn't there. Unless the facts reported are not true those facts are plenty enough to condemn the authorities in this case. No secret information is needed, and if you need secret information you don't have a case!

He willingly went though. He wasn't arrested. All he had to say was "Got a warrant for my arrest, officers?" And if they didn't, there's no way they can legally take him into custody from inside his house unless he stuck one of the guns out at them.

But Im guessing he was either a) realizing he needed help or b) Didn't have the will to tell them to leave him alone.

 

[Gunner3456]

Geez. I need a beer.

 

[Gunner3456]

Nice try Gunner. The original story was based on a press release by the police agencies involved.
The later stories were based on the CC'd e-mails Mr. Pyle wrote/sent.
Excerpt from Mail Tribune Story:

That's what bothers us all about your willful ignorance,...
You don't even believe what the police agencies involved told the press.

I didn't have to be there to believe what the police said, I'll take them at their word.
They screwed up. You said it best, they are just people. Well guess what? People make mistakes.
They sure did in this case, and they were pounding their chests over it until Constitutionalists started questioning their "proactive" procedures.

Your decision to support them because they're your buddies doesn't change that. And now that you've admitted it, we know you have a "dog-in-the-fight" that is affecting your objectivity.

Game over. Now it's up to the court(s).

No where does that say that the police released his name. Mr. Pyles emailed the paper and gave them his name. That fact is in one of the several newspaper articles which have been linked here. Everything the police said was brief and anonymous.

I've just lived here forever and know a lot of people and I'd be the first to despise the police if they were like some departments.

You have it all backwards.

 

[Gunner3456]

While this post wasnt directed at me, I felt compelled to address it

I can see this thread circling the drain... may as well have another go at it




I would argue that you have made few points and your questions were irrelevant. AND that you have resorted to "attacking the messenger" many times in this thread in one way or another.

See below.

And as far as intelligent debate goes, even if one were raised, you would be the last to contribute.

Nice hypocrisy.

See my previous comments about you resorting to name calling to "out-wit" other posters

See above.



That is correct. Mr. Pyles is a good person

It's so good that you had the chance to meet him.

who is obviously not as disgruntled as everyone accused him of being.

Or he calmed down over time, or...

You want to know why he doesnt appear to want to talk about it? HE PROBABLY WANTS TO BE LEFT ALONE TO GO ABOUT HIS LIFE IN PEACE...

So why did he contact the paper, give them his name and tell them he'd had a run-in with the police when he could have remained private and anonymous?

Im going to go out on a limb here... but this incident, combined with the loss of his job has probably turned his life upside down. All because of what is probably a personal conflict with his supervisor, who made accusations against him that were baseless... even your beloved coalition of police departments now have to admit to.

Wow, you have this uncanny ability to know things so very well which simply aren't true.

We blindly defend him on PRINCIPLE, something you likely lack. Unless he made specific threats, there was no reason to do this.

Did he make threats or didn't he? How do you know? If you don't know, then why are you here?

So... on PRINCIPLE and respect for the rights of our fellow AMERICANS we are standing by him in this and calling out the departments that railroaded him.

PRINCIPLE trumps brains and good judgment every time, right? Especially when someone doesn't know the facts in the case, right?

Yeah, just like the other two times you were "finished" with this thread?
You have finished again... but you continued another 5 pages.

Ah! Finish by attacking the messenger again. Nice touch.

 

[Mountainman]

While this post wasnt directed at me, I felt compelled to address it

I can see this thread circling the drain... may as well have another go at it


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner3456 View Post
You haven't responded to any of my points or my questions. You have sunk to simply attacking the messenger. You can't raise an intelligent debate.

I would argue that you have made few points and your questions were irrelevant. AND that you have resorted to "attacking the messenger" many times in this thread in one way or another.

And as far as intelligent debate goes, even if one were raised, you would be the last to contribute.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner3456 View Post
There is something wrong with your mind.

See my previous comments about you resorting to name calling to "out-wit" other posters


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner3456 View Post
You don't know any of what My Pyles did or why he doesn't appear to want to talk about what he did, yet you blindly defend him.

That is correct. Mr. Pyles is a good person who is obviously not as disgruntled as everyone accused him of being. You want to know why he doesnt appear to want to talk about it? HE PROBABLY WANTS TO BE LEFT ALONE TO GO ABOUT HIS LIFE IN PEACE...

Im going to go out on a limb here... but this incident, combined with the loss of his job has probably turned his life upside down. All because of what is probably a personal conflict with his supervisor, who made accusations against him that were baseless... even your beloved coalition of police departments now have to admit to.

We blindly defend him on PRINCIPLE, something you likely lack. Unless he made specific threats, there was no reason to do this.

So... on PRINCIPLE and respect for the rights of our fellow AMERICANS we are standing by him in this and calling out the departments that railroaded him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner3456 View Post
Now, since even after I apologize for misspeaking, you still want to attack my honor, I'm finished with you.

Yeah, just like the other two times you were "finished" with this thread?
You have finished again... but you continued another 5 pages.

If you want to see what this tool originally wrote to Just Jim before he edited it, here it is:

Now, since even after I apologize for misspeaking, you still want to attack my honor, tell me this:

When and where would you like to meet to finish this discussion about my honor in person?

 

[ZachS]

If you want to see what this tool originally wrote to Just Jim before he edited it, here it is:

The personal sniping between respected long-term contributors to this forum is bad enough - but there is absolutely no reason for a user with 8 posts to be calling anybody names around here.

 

[isher]

Well.......

This might be problematic for some people,

But here we go anyway: quote -


When I arrived in Southern Oregon years back, I learned of this concept of the "mythical State of Jefferson," an area of Northern California and Southern Oregon that once played at seceding from the United States government. Nowadays, it's an ad slogan that you hear on this local yuppie Clear Channel station that gets passed off as college radio. Last time I heard a college kid on the station was back in 1983, when they used to let the frat boys play Talking Heads and the Go-Go's for four hours a week. Now it's PC pap all day long and all night, too, though I do love my Nature Notes and the sincere voice of Colleen Pike turning sales pitches into public service. So I have to listen, and sometimes even contributed when gifted chatterboxes like the late Joanie McGowan held the station hostage for long enough. But I always wondered about this State of Jefferson business.

I occasionally go to the State Line Liquor store in the real state of California just south of the Siskiyou summit to get tax-free hooch. The State Line is one of the last structures left over from the destruction of the town called Hilt, that was dismantled in 1974 by the Fruitgrowers company, when corporate management decided that, since fruit was no longer boxed in wooden crates, they didn't need fallers, log truck drivers, a mill, or housing for all those people, either, and told everyone to get out. Which they duly did. Bill Rooker and his wife Laurie are the last two remaining inhabitants of the town of Hilt. You can read the history of the town of Hilt in a photographic display at the back of the State Line Liquor store. It's sad and poignant to imagine that a little town that had a school, church, baseball team, spelling bees, etcetera, just blew away because it was a company town where the company owned the dirt, the houses, the streets, just about everything. The Trinca Family stuck it out by running the State Line for about thirty years after the town folded, but a couple of years ago they sold out to Penny and her husband, who still serve the famous Pilot Rock burger, thick milk shakes and other classic food on red and white checked tablecloths.

At any rate, I was on my way to the State Line, having pulled off southbound I-5. I'd just made a right at the stop sign and was almost feeling that whiskey bottle in my hand, when suddenly a little monument caught my eye off to the right. I pulled over and read what it said: "Jefferson Davis – 1808 – 1889 – Highway No. 99 California – Erected by Daughters of the American Confederacy, May 1944." Jefferson Davis? Not Thomas Jefferson? I scratched my head a moment and reached back into my knowledge of Civil War history to come up with this deeply-buried tidbit: Jefferson Davis was the President of the Confederacy, as in Abraham Lincoln's opposite number. Hmmm, a monument erected about eighty years after the end of the Civil War by the original Dixie chicks. So I started researching and learned a few reasons why there are so few black people in this area, which seems so friendly.

It turns out that Oregon was the only US State to completely exclude "Free Negroes" from the State. It also turns out that former Oregon governor Walter Pierce, who ran the top office in the twenties, was a card-carrying member of the KKK, and at one time the Klan claimed 200,000 members in the State of Oregon. It further turns out that, until a date that history seems to have obscured from appearing in the Google database, the City of Medford had a "sundown law" that required black people to be out of town by sundown. Today, I bet a black person could eat at The Outback at any hour of the day or night. I wouldn't necessarily suggest drinkin' till closing time at The Satin Slipper or Dilligaffs, but that's progress, a little at a time.

Then I read an online article by Vic Varis, an African American writer, entitled "Dixie in the North." His work is well-footnoted and quotable, even in the short expanse of this article, and I've included his bibliographical notes, for those of the scholarly persuasion inclined to check Mr. Varis' facts:

"Pioneers moving into the massive expanse of Oregon arrived each year from the Ohio and Mississippi River Valleys. These included families from bordering Southern states of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Missouri, as well as Kentucky and Tennessee (Moreland, 1993). Many of the pioneers left the South where they could not compete with slave owners use of nearly free labor. Though there was no love for the Negro, they would not, for one reason or another, own slaves. They arrived hating both slavery and blacks (Moreland, 1993, McLagan, 1980; Robertson, 1901).... In the 1840's the Provisional Government of Oregon began to incorporate the first of the infamous "Exclusion Laws." These laws were designed to restrict entry, commerce, litigation and intermingling of races (McLagan, 1980)."

Oregonians voted eight-to-one to exclude blacks from the State. The exact vote was 8640 to 1081, and the precise language incorporated into the Oregon Constitution read:

No free negro or mulatto not residing in this state at the time of the adoption of this state constitution shall come reside, or be within this state, or hold real estate, or make any contracts or maintain any suit therein and the legislative assembly shall provide penal laws for the removal by public officers of all such negroes and mulattos, and for their effectual exclusion from the state, and for the punishment of persons who shall bring them into the state or employ or harbor them. (Platt, 1903).

But excluding black people from the State wasn't enough for the die-hard slavers, as Mr. Varis explains, Southern Oregon was the hot-spot for turning Oregon into a slave State, that is – to join the Secessionist Movement of the Southern States: "In southern Oregon there was so much opposition that a "die-hard pro-slavery" group developed plans to create a separate pro-south government to be known as the Pacific Coast Republic. Even after this was squelched by the state legislature and the war was ended, advocates of the South "refused to admit defeat" and formed a clandestine movement to reestablish slavery somehow in Oregon (McLagan, 1980)."

Further research disclosed that the secessionist females, the Daughters of the American Confederacy, the would-be Scarlett O'Haras of Oregon, proliferated their racist agenda all over the country under the guise of this Jefferson Davis Memorial Highway ruse. A relatively-recent article on the subject states:

"In exploring along the old 99 route you might be surprised to find a handful of historical markers labeling this road The Jefferson Davis Highway. This is a curious though little known juxtaposition but California has four highway markers to prove it. And on each end of the highway in Washington, in Vancouver and in Blaine near the Peace Arch, stand stone monuments attesting to the fact. One wonders why the president of the Confederacy was so honored out west." The Jefferson Davis Highway Out West, by Jill Livingston © 2003.

Well I know. Like my friend Iggy said, if it walks, quacks and craps like a duck, "It's a goddamned duck." Thank you, Daughters of the American Confederacy, for memorializing what the State of Oregon's Political Correctness Team has sanitized into a "myth." Some things, like slavery, bigotry, racism, and revisionist history, are just facts.

Published in the print edition of the AFP under Charles' pseudonym "Cyrus Magee"


This might seem like a mighty elliptical and possibly inflammatory reference.

However, as my recently demised Mother said,

"I am both a legitimate Daughter of the Republic

And a legitimate Daughter of the Confederacy,

And I despise them both."

Carrying this tradition on, yup,

I am a legitimate Son of the Republic,

And a legitimate Son of the Confederacy,

And despise them both.

The only reason I bring up this ancient history

Is when I lived in the valley, certain older residents

Were mighty pissed off that the old rule

That people of color couldn't be in Medford

Before daylight, or after sunset, no longer applied.

My point?

There is a certain cultural collagen

Which develops and supports the local local law enforcement community.

Which included a certain blond haired, blue eyed, motorcycle riding

Hardworking kid, namely me.

Yup, hair was long and a few other things,

Like hanging out simultaneously with Vietnam vets and peacenik Quakers.



Not throwing rocks her, just sayin',

From experience.


isher

 

[ZachS]

That's certainly a stain on Oregon's history, but racist laws were by no means limited to Southern Oregon: similar policies were found throughout the state. There was no substantial black population anywhere in the state until WWII, and there is still none anywhere outside of Portland. Portland's, it must be said, is only substantial by local standards - by percentage, it's the lowest of any big city in the country.

 

[Mountainman]

The personal sniping between respected long-term contributors to this forum is bad enough - but there is absolutely no reason for a user with 8 posts to be calling anybody names around here.

I think after his posts on this thread the "respected" part of what you said is completely shot. Why don't you do a pole on what people think. I'll bet 90% would agree on the tool part. Also, what is the problem with some of the people on here about how long someone has been a member or there amount of posts? You have no idea how long I have been reading the forum before I actually signed up.

 

[Just Jim]

If you want to see what this tool originally wrote to Just Jim before he edited it, here it is:

Now, since even after I apologize for misspeaking, you still want to attack my honor, tell me this:

When and where would you like to meet to finish this discussion about my honor in person?

YYYYYAAAAAWWWWWNNNNN I suppose that is the way some feel they get honor got to beat on somebody to feel better. geez somebody close this thread before gunner has the medford police visit him

jj

 

[Father of four]

Isher! Wrong place to post all that gibberish! Please remove it or any Mod please move it to off topics please. Race is not at all even considered in this thread. :huh:

 

[ZachS]

I think after his posts on this thread the "respected" part of what you said is completely shot. Why don't you do a pole on what people think. I'll bet 90% would agree on the tool part. Also, what is the problem with some of the people on here about how long someone has been a member or there amount of posts? You have no idea how long I have been reading the forum before I actually signed up.

My respect for other users here is based on the their ability to make valuable contributions to discussions about firearms and firearms law, with hilarious off-topic posts a close runner-up. I'll bet 90% of the people here feel pretty much the same way.

As fas as your second question's concerned, there's a difference between reading and contributing. By participating, the other users get a chance to know you a bit and will have a better idea where you're coming from when you get to the point where you'd rather violate forum rules than keep your opinions to yourself.

 

[Riot]

The personal sniping between respected long-term contributors to this forum is bad enough - but there is absolutely no reason for a user with 8 posts to be calling anybody names around here.

lol...now there's a new low.

Playing the "Seniority Card" are we?

It doesn't matter if someone posts 1 post or 1K posts...he has a right to voice his opinion just like anyone else here.

And the disrepect has been two-fold in this thread...on either side of the issue. Pointing out someone's contribution status doesn't make anyone's opinion mater more or less.

 

[isher]

Isher! Wrong place to post all that gibberish! Please remove it or any Mod please move it to off topics please. Race is not at all even considered in this thread. :huh:

I said at the beginning this would be problematic.

The focus here would be "profiling."

So let us move on to "race".

In 1969, if you had long hair and drove a bike,

In the Rogue Valley.

Nevermind that you worked a fulltime job plus some,

You just had to be some kind of user or dealer or both.

Well, I was neither.

But I was profiled as neatly and exactly as

Any other suspicious person.


isher

 

[Partsproduction]

Wrong place to post all that gibberish! Please remove it or any Mod please move it to off topics please. Race is not at all even considered in this thread.

So,, is the guy a black guy? Does it matter?

Someone told me today "You better not make a false move in Portland if you are a black guy". I asked what he was talking about and he said some black folks got shot in Portland recently by police for not standing rigid enough, what's that about? I don't put much stock on what the guy says because I think he voted for Obama.

But isher's point I think was that the cops in Medford are like those who ran the deep South 60 years ago. I don't believe it and hope it's not true, and it's the first I'd heard about the reference to Jefferson Davis, I'd assumed it was a reference to Thomas Jefferson.

So much for 'the State of Jefferson', before tonight I was in favor of succession.

 

[Father of four]

Still this isn't supposed to be about bashing anyone or calling anyone racist past present or future. This thread is about "Medford Police: Being "Proactive" .

 

[Father of four]

I hope that we all stay on topic because I would really like to hear the outcome.