Oregon Measure 114 litigation

[Pete F]

With all of this litigation, the one thing that has not been debunked by the pro-2a groups is the continual argument that M114 does not take anything from gun owners by LEVO and pro-M114. High capacity magazines are grandfathered in.

How about the ability to purchase standard capacity magazines and most important the ability to carry >10 round magazines outside your home without them being locked up or empty on your way to the range. That is a taking of rights.

 

[3MTA3]

This raises a huge question. Many people are taking possesion of firearms that have not yet gotten approval in the NICS system. From the way this reads those checks will not be completed, they are paused and waiting for you to obtain the permit to be completed.

The question is, what happens if somebody takes possession of a firearm with an unfinished check, and has no plans to obtain the permit?

Transfer happen before 114 took place, so unless the BGC fails not a thing including being registered.

 

[Yarome]

This raises a huge question. Many people are taking possesion of firearms that have not yet gotten approval in the NICS system. From the way this reads those checks will not be completed, they are paused and waiting for you to obtain the permit to be completed.

The question is, what happens if somebody takes possession of a firearm with an unfinished check, and has no plans to obtain the permit?

Consider yourself lucky and... keep it to yourself. It's only an issue if you are a prohibited person and your BGC comes back with a denial.


Edit: What he said....

 

[UnderFire]

Consider yourself lucky and... keep it to yourself. It's only an issue if you are a prohibited person and your BGC comes back with a denial.

It's not a secret, they obviously have every last detail about the transaction sitting there. This could cause future reprecussions for both the FFL and the transferee. Just the thought I had when I read the statement.

 

[Beeble_B]

I thought Braden was on a roll with these:

 

[Yarome]

It's not a secret, they obviously have every last detail about the transaction sitting there. This could cause future reprecussions for both the FFL and the transferee. Just the thought I had when I read the statement.

Keeping it to yourself I meant in general. It's not a secret with the authorities, but you don't want to go around telling people you bought that firearm without completing a BGC... right!? (In fact, you DID, but they dropped the ball and that's not on you)

Nothing illegal about it under the circumstances, but it's a bit of a unique situation and you don't want to potentially jam yourself up if some Karen/Ken decides you need a little dose of scrutiny by LE.

 

[UnderFire]

Keeping it to yourself I did not mean to the FFL or LE... I meant in general... you don't want to go around telling people you bought that firearm without completeing a BGC... right!? (In actuality, you DID, but the state dropped the ball and that's not on you)

Nothing illegal about it under the circumstances, but it's a bit of a unique situation and you don't want to potentially jam yourself up if some Karen/Ken decides you need a little dose of scrutiny by LE.

My question actually does not apply to myself. I brought it up because I felt that it needed to be discussed and put out there. There is nothing illegal about it right this second, no. But what happens next year when OSP or the ATF decides to look into it or is forced to and potentially thousands of law abiding citizens have the government knocking on their door asking "papers please."?

It is unfortunate but ambiguity and skirting the rules over the last couple years has been proven to lead to a bad outcome.

 

[3MTA3]

It's not a secret, they obviously have every last detail about the transaction sitting there. This could cause future reprecussions for both the FFL and the transferee. Just the thought I had when I read the statement.

Nope. The FFL was following the law on the three business day rule. The state can complain but there are no ex post facto laws and that's what this would be if they tried to go after them.

 

[Yarome]

My question actually does not apply to myself. I brought it up because I felt that it needed to be discussed and put out there. There is nothing illegal about it right this second, no. But what happens next year when OSP or the ATF decides to look into it or is forced to and potentially thousands of law abiding citizens have the government knocking on their door asking "papers please."?

It is unfortunate but ambiguity and skirting the rules over the last couple years has been proven to lead to a bad outcome.

The burden is on the government to disqualify you from possessing said firearm. You will never have to prove/document you have their permission. If you are not a prohibited person... you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Koda]

But what happens next year when OSP or the ATF decides to look into it or is forced to and potentially thousands of law abiding citizens have the government knocking on their door asking "papers please."?

they cant without a warrant, and nobodys broken any laws. Its not gonna happen. The only person who might get scrutinized is the FFL any they didnt break any laws either. Note, there are still millions+ unregistered firearms in private hands, legally.

 

[Ura-Ki]

My question actually does not apply to myself. I brought it up because I felt that it needed to be discussed and put out there. There is nothing illegal about it right this second, no. But what happens next year when OSP or the ATF decides to look into it or is forced to and potentially thousands of law abiding citizens have the government knocking on their door asking "papers please."?

It is unfortunate but ambiguity and skirting the rules over the last couple years has been proven to lead to a bad outcome.

In short, No Warrant, No Comply, GTFOML!

 

[JuglansRegia]

I mean the 4473 is only good for 30 days, so if your ffl releases after 3 days and it takes the state another couple of months to get the mess sorted, are they really going to sort through 30k stalled sales?

 

[Yarome]

I mean the 4473 is only good for 30 days, so if your ffl releases after 3 days and it takes the state another couple of months to get the mess sorted, are they really going to sort through 30k stalled sales?

I don't think the decision has been made yet of what's actually going to happen on the 8th. Rumors seem to range from OSP completely zeroing the queue (requiring any uncompleted transfers to have to reapply for a BGC, with a purchase permit) to grandathering the queue and allowing any in progress to proceed and firearm transfers to continue past the 8th .

After hearing some of the questions the judge was asking during the injunction hearing, I'm not as optimistic as I was that we'll get it. Seemed completely uneducated on firearms issues and hinted at some preconceptions that are blatantly false. IE., (paraphrasing) "everyone would agree that LE should be better armed than citizens, right?"

Fortunate that there is more than one suit, I guess. We may need them even though it should be an out and out no-brainer.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

It looks like SMF has also filed an amicus with the OFF suit and Pete Serrano from SMF will be assisting with oral arguments tomorrow morning. (Dec 2nd)

Who is SMF?

 

[tkdguy]

Who is SMF?

Silent Majority Foundation out of Washington.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Who is SMF?

Silent Majority Foundation, one of the BIGGEST fighters in Washington state against their magazine bans, and several other 2nd cases!
Check them out, and consider supporting them, I am now!

 

[ZigZagZeke]

This raises a huge question. Many people are taking possesion of firearms that have not yet gotten approval in the NICS system. From the way this reads those checks will not be completed, they are paused and waiting for you to obtain the permit to be completed.

The question is, what happens if somebody takes possession of a firearm with an unfinished check, and has no plans to obtain the permit?

If it's prior to Dec 8th, nothing. They just bought a firearm.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

It's not a secret, they obviously have every last detail about the transaction sitting there. This could cause future reprecussions for both the FFL and the transferee. Just the thought I had when I read the statement.

The 3 day rule is law. No repercussions.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

My question actually does not apply to myself. I brought it up because I felt that it needed to be discussed and put out there. There is nothing illegal about it right this second, no. But what happens next year when OSP or the ATF decides to look into it or is forced to and potentially thousands of law abiding citizens have the government knocking on their door asking "papers please."?

It is unfortunate but ambiguity and skirting the rules over the last couple years has been proven to lead to a bad outcome.

The 3 day rule is a feature, not a bug or loophole. It's codified in the law as it now stands. Delivery after 3 business days with no notification of a denial is LEGAL. No repercussions. No knock on the door later. It's legal, done, completed, fini!

 

[Ura-Ki]

The 3 day rule is a feature, not a bug or loophole. It's codified in the law as it now stands. Delivery after 3 business days with no notification of a denial is LEGAL. No repercussions. No knock on the door later. It's legal, done, completed, fini!

Yea, MOSTLY! IF your BGC does come back as a denied at a later date, THEY Absolutely WILL come and take it from you, no Iff's, And's, or But's!!!
It's also been common for Oregon and many other states to NOT allow the 3 day rule, under threat from the ATF!