Man convicted by jury for defending himself

[Yarome]

There are images and vidoes around.

(click to inbiggin)


Vidoes and such on the dailymail UK site.

PICTURED: Armed BLM protester shot dead at Austin demonstration

Garrett Foster has been identified as the man who was fatally shot at a protest in Austin when he approached a vehicle and the driver inside opened fire, police said.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Several clips that play in a que if you click one... when it ends the next auto starts.

From what can be seen earlier of him, his rifle is high cross chest carry and in the photo it appears his elbow is raised as if he placed his hand on the grip. What you cant see though is if it's still cross chest slung and in a ready or if he is actually starting to move the muzzle in the drivers direction. From the body angle though, even still cross chest the rifle is pointing "more" in the direction of the vehicle and probably at a 45 degree to the ground... with his hand on the grip.... It's not imperceivable it could be mistaken for starting to bring the rifle up to bear on target.

That of course is giving him the benefit of the doubt that he still has it flush across his chest at a downward 45 degree. With the angle of his arm... if his hand is on the grip and in line with the rifle... it can easily appear the rifle is being raised and near driver level.

Who knows!?

I doubt there are photos of the vehicle with the rifle on the ground. The driver took off immediately after firing.

 

[Koda]

At the car, hand on grip, muzzle is closer to being pointed at the car than it is being away from the car, mind you this is just a single photo and it may have been angled more at the car in the seconds afterward before he was shot.

If a police officer was in this same situation it would easily be deemed lawful self defense.

View attachment 1400291

If this was a patrol car and officer that would be an entirely different situation. I still suspect the kingpin of this trial was if Perry drove into the crowd intentionally. If he didnt, then that pic isnt clear he wasnt in danger and certainly could be argued one would fear their life having an armed mob attack them.

 

[Rkangel]

You don't just own every bullet you fire, you also own every word you type, both in "open source" communications (forums, social media, etc) and private messages. It's no surprise that the prosecutor was able to successfully argue premeditation - had those messages not been sent, it would have been much harder to convict him.

This is definitely something all gun owners should keep in mind; not only does it affect a person's legal standing if they have to use a gun in self defense, it also reflects poorly on the pro gun community as a whole. The media loves to play the "guilt by association" game. Making statements like that just plays into the hands of the anti-gun movement.

Agreed. Absolutely stupid to make death threats. Even in a justified self defense situation, you don't want to threaten your attacker. Even "Stop or I'll shoot" can be all the motivation an aggressive prosecutor needs to pursue premeditation charges.

I was advised in my first ever CHL class decades ago, that it is best to keep your mouth shut before, during, and after discharging a weapon in self defense. Tactically, if you are talking you aren't walking. You are thinking about moving your mouth and not your body out of the situation. Practically, you own every word just like you own every bullet, it all becomes evidence in the trial.

At the same time, it would be nice if the law was equally applied... Unfortunately we have seen BLM, antifa, and even political figures make similar death threats without any repercussions.

 

[American123]

If this was a patrol car and officer that would be an entirely different situation. I still suspect the kingpin of this trial was if Perry drove into the crowd intentionally. If he didnt, then that pic isnt clear he wasnt in danger and certainly could be argued one would fear their life having an armed mob attack them.

I don't know why it being a patrol car would make it any different. A cop's life isn't more important than anyone else's.

The people in the road have less legal right to be there than the driver does. If the driver thought maybe he could slowly proceed through the crowd while on his way elsewhere, then after getting to a certain point his car got swarmed, then he sees AK guy come up to a 'tactical position,' it's not unreasonable to cap the AK guy.

He didn't shoot anyone else, only the 1 guy who presented a clear and present danger to him.

I just think it's nearly comical to pass so much judgement on a guy when the deceased brought himself, and the AK into the situation.

 

[Yarome]

At the car, hand on grip, muzzle is closer to being pointed at the car than it is being away from the car, mind you this is just a single photo and it may have been angled more at the car in the seconds afterward before he was shot.

If a police officer was in this same situation it would easily be deemed lawful self defense.

View attachment 1400291

You beat me to it. That's kind of my impression too. At the angle he's standing at and even if the rifle is at the same angle as pictured earlier that high on his chest and hand on the grip.... if a shot when off it would hit the pavement right about at the drivers door and maybe a foot or 2 to the left.

If I glanced over and saw that.... it's highly likely I would have perceived him as an immediate and emminent threat to my life. Either that... or the other option to gun the car and run over all the protestors surrounding me and in the street ahead of me. That's even less appealing.

 

[Yarome]

If this was a patrol car and officer that would be an entirely different situation. I still suspect the kingpin of this trial was if Perry drove into the crowd intentionally. If he didnt, then that pic isnt clear he wasnt in danger and certainly could be argued one would fear their life having an armed mob attack them.

In the videos you can see there where other vehicles also driving that street. He wasn't alone and earlier when the deceased was being interviewed he clearly stated they had been told they may not walk in the street.

 

[Koda]

I just think it's nearly comical to pass so much judgement on a guy when the deceased brought himself, and the AK into the situation.

the guy stated he might go kill rioters and looters, not passing judgement unfairly here anyways.

 

[American123]

the guy stated he might go kill rioters and looters, not passing judgement unfairly here anyways.

While his statements were dumb, it doesn't appear from the circumstances that he acted outside the realm that could be considered lawful self defense. If you take the AK out of the situation, it doesn't seem this would have ended this way.

 

[Yarome]

the guy stated he might go kill rioters and looters, not passing judgement unfairly here anyways.

You can't completely blow off the trash talk... I know. It's a bad look, but how would it change the facts of the shooting itself if you read that the deceased had been heard earlier saying he was going to pop any cops that try and stop them? Or... "If I see any rittenhouses I'm gonna drop em"?

Does that change any of the dynamics of the actions that took place?

 

[Koda]

While his statements were dumb, it doesn't appear from the circumstances that he acted outside the realm that could be considered lawful self defense. If you take the AK out of the situation, it doesn't seem this would have ended this way.

thats a fair point, and like I said Im not clear if he intended to drive his car into the protestors and agree if not then I could argue more in his favor. Otherwise I just simply see more evidence against him.

 

[Koda]

You can't completely blow off the trash talk... I know. It's a bad look, but how would it change the facts of the shooting itself if you read that the deceased had been heard earlier saying he was going to pop any cops that try and stop them? Or... "If I see any rittenhouses I'm gonna drop em"?

Does that change any of the dynamics of the actions that took place?

sure that would change the dynamics.

 

[eustace_stelio]

Regarding the original post, if you can walk away/drive away without engaging or being attacked that is probably your best option.

Just because you're armed doesn't mean using your weapon is the best option. If you can safely deescalate or remove yourself from the situation you should.

 

[Alexx1401]

A bit more context...

Im guessing this had a lot to do with the conviction.
"During the trial, which began March 27, prosecutors showed the jury text messages and social media communications where Perry talked about killing protesters in the weeks before the shooting. "I might have to kill a few people on my way to work, they are rioting outside my apartment complex," he wrote to a friend in June 2020. On another occasion he said, "I might go to Dallas to shoot looters." In DMs, according to reporting by the Austin Chronicle, a fellow gun owner warned him: "We went through the same training," he said. "Shooting after creating an event where you have to shoot, is not a good shoot.""

U.S. Army Sgt. Guilty in Murder of BLM Protester

In 2020, Army Sgt. Daniel Perry drove his car into a crowd of people protesting police brutality in Austin, Texas, and fatally shot Garrett Foster

www.rollingstone.com

That right there! When I read that I thought you stupid fool, if he really did send texts like that. Easy of course to Monday morning this now. Still if he really did send text's like that? This is setting yourself up for trouble. Also to choose to use the gun rather than the car probably had a lot to do with it. If he really was surrounded he may have been better off to just step on the gas. Those he ran over may or may not live but the jury had to have been seeing something that made all of them decide to convict this guy. Not even one hold out? Makes me wonder how much spin we are reading and what the jury actually was told. Sad case for sure. Also a good warning to others. Be careful what you say on the net. It never goes away. Be careful about drawing your gun. If this really is a "bad" conviction he may well win later but, for now he is I am sure wishing he had done things differently now that its too late.

 

[Alexx1401]

Again this sadly goes like so many things "like this". I keep seeing people claim there is video of the guy aiming his rifle at the driver but its not allowed to be posted here? Really? News to me given a lot of stuff I see here. Then the people claiming this video is "out there" tell us to just search. I did and can't find it. Making me wonder if someone is not throwing that claim out there knowing full well no such video exists.
So bottom line to me? They got a jury to go along with not a single hold out.
I keep reading people who seem to be making up stuff to support their idea.
If the Gov does wipe this conviction out I will shed no tears for the fool who took that rifle to that protest as he was also acting a fool.
Hopefully maybe some will see what happened here and be a little more careful in these kind of situations.

 

[RX-79G]

A man's intent to go armed is what I consider. Some men carry to defend themselves from threats while others carry to threaten others. The way we see the world is to put ourselves in the shoes of that armed man.

The dead man was reported as an Antifa member who is armed for the protest march. What would the ANTIFA member be thinking? If folks read some it's pretty obvious what Antifa thinks, they march for riots and revolution, anarchy.

Compare with the Uber driver, what did he arm himself for? Did he go to the march to kill people? If he was there to murder then why not just drive over them? Did he seek confrontation? The spin from his social media said he was concerned about rioters.

Anyway you guys will pick what you believe just the same as I do, I just offer a point of view.

Why do all these right and left wing people show up to "peaceful" protests with rifles? So far, it doesn't seem to be anything but fashion.

But we know why the shooter was there from his text messages. And if he "didn't mean it", that's too bad he compounded his stupid statements with putting himself armed by people he politically disagrees with and decided to have words with. It isn't like Antifa can smell your politics - you have to want a confrontation. Antifa are not looking to just hurt random people - they are "anti" something.

If a black guy went to a clan rally with a gun, what would you say about his intent?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

If a black guy went to a clan rally with a gun, what would you say about his intent?

Suicide?

 

[Alexx1401]

Why do all these right and left wing people show up to "peaceful" protests with rifles? So far, it doesn't seem to be anything but fashion.

But we know why the shooter was there from his text messages. And if he "didn't mean it", that's too bad he compounded his stupid statements with putting himself armed by people he politically disagrees with and decided to have words with. It isn't like Antifa can smell your politics - you have to want a confrontation. Antifa are not looking to just hurt random people - they are "anti" something.

If a black guy went to a clan rally with a gun, what would you say about his intent?

Not to defend the shooter here but, this goes down as one of the most hilarious statements I have seen since the guy in Baghdad with tanks in the background saying no one was there.

"Antifa are not looking to just hurt random people - they are "anti" something."

A LOT of these riots by these morons they mob random people and burn. Its what they do. They burn and mob random people who they come upon. If one of them gets hurt screaming they are anti Police they start screaming for Police to help them.

 

[Yarome]

Again this sadly goes like so many things "like this". I keep seeing people claim there is video of the guy aiming his rifle at the driver but its not allowed to be posted here? Really? News to me given a lot of stuff I see here. Then the people claiming this video is "out there" tell us to just search. I did and can't find it.

Umm.... photos posted twice above and the link to at least some of the videos. There were others, but all I did was google on 'perry foster shooting' and looked at the first couple. Knock yourself out.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Umm.... photos posted twice above and the link to at least some of the videos. There were others, but all I did was google on 'perry foster shooting' and looked at the first couple. Knock yourself out.

I saw all those, not really seeing what your seeing but that isn't new

 

[RX-79G]

Not to defend the shooter here but, this goes down as one of the most hilarious statements I have seen since the guy in Baghdad with tanks in the background saying no one was there.

"Antifa are not looking to just hurt random people - they are "anti" something."

A LOT of these riots by these morons they mob random people and burn. Its what they do. They burn and mob random people who they come upon. If one of them gets hurt screaming they are anti Police they start screaming for Police to help them.

I can't imagine what you think news is. That isn't what happens.