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Man confusing tactical officers with intruders gets shot

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by civilian75, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Get the rest on the first page of today's Oregonian or here:
    Man shot by Washington County tactical officers had grabbed a gun because he thought there was an intruder on his property, family said | OregonLive.com
     
    powersbj and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Wifey

    Wifey N.E. PDX Active Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I saw the story both on the news and in the paper this morning.
    First, I can't comprehend how he would not have seen the several men/women outside as the neighbors did. Secondly, I question his decision on going outside with a gun simply because there was someone in his yard. I suggest there should have been more thinking before acting on this one.
    I realize, however, that just by watching/reading the first reports there is information missing. Curious to see the 'rest of the news'.
    Wifey
     
  3. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Yeap, story is full of holes. Still I question his reasoning to come out of the house, even if its the porch. That's why I had it under the "Strategies, Tactics and Training" forum. If he makes it, Flores-Haro learned his lesson the hard way.
     
  4. MilitantBEEMER

    MilitantBEEMER Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I too question his reasoning for exiting his home with a firearm to confront someone. I heard one report from a neighbor who said the gun probably was not even loaded. I hope he survives!
     
  5. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

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    I had a similar experience. I was at home watch TV and see someone in dark clothing in my back yard with a flashlight looking around. It was too dark to see a badge. Since I was home alone, I grabbed my Mossberg and went into the bedroom and waited and watched. I figured if whoever it was tried to come in, they would be shot otherwise I was safe and out of sight. Turns out is was the police looking for a burglary suspect in the neighborhood, but I was not about to go outside with a gun to find out what was going on.
     
  6. evltwn

    evltwn Gold Hill Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Maybe he thought they were conducting "illegal activities" and was upholding his right to resist, as so many around this forum advocate. And how did that work out for him???
     
  7. Toxic6

    Toxic6 Higher then a PDX hipster (~10,000 ft higher) Active Member

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    an hopefully he lives to press charges and sue the living bubblegume out of the trespassers who shot him.
     
  8. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    I live in a rural area on a couple acres. Let's see, barking dogs, livestock agitated, unidentified people in dark clothing poking around outbuildings...

    Yes, I'm going to investigate and probably take a handgun and big beam with me. All I know is I've got unannounced trespassers fooling around with my livestock and outbuildings. Am I supposed to cower in my basement and hope they go away?

    This business of trigger happy, armored police in paramilitary gear serving warrants unannounced in the middle of the night has got to stop. It's a recipe for disaster and the police need to start being held accountable. We are not sheep and they are not sheepdogs.
     
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  9. SigFanWA

    SigFanWA Clark County, WA Member

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    Amen.

     
  10. rolandson

    rolandson Oregon Active Member

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    In this day and age of reverse 911, this is one unbelievable ef-up and the part of both PPB and Washington County. It is on the police agencies to secure their area, which means getting the uninvolved civilians out of harms way before they go running through their yards with weapons drawn.

    Of course the Portland Bureau will be quick to seek to charge this guy in an effort to divert attention and shift responsibility...they'er good at that. But the reality is that we Portland taxpayers just got another 6 or 7 figure lawsuit shoved up our bottoms, compliments of those well trained boys and girls in blue.
     
  11. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    I hope the guy makes it - he was in his rights to be armed on his property.

    I have long said that no knock warrants are bad practice - they get people shot unnecessarily and it can go both ways. I recall one incident - think it was in OK - where the raid team hit the wrong house - the house they did hit had been robbed a few times and the WWII vet had taken to keeping his 1911 next to him - they tried the door and he grabbed the gun - they kicked the door and he dropped the first few guys through the door. He was found not guilty for killing /wounding the officers.

    As ZigZagZeke stated above - I also live in a rural area on several acres. If the dogs go off I am inclined to grab my carry gun and light to make sure no one is trying to mess with the animals or the property. In most cases the carry gun will remain concealed unless needed. After all - if I called the cops it would take them 15+ minutes to respond - the fire dept/ambulance is a bit better at about 10 minutes.
    So far it has been coyotes, racoons, etc. that have them making noise but you never know. When I lived in town it was 2 guys trying to steal the starter out of my car asking if "John" was home at 3:00 in the morning. I was glad I brought my carry gun that night as when I told them to leave they pulled a screwdriver and started toward me- they changed their minds and left promptly when I exposed the gun. When I went to leave for work the next day I turned the key and the starter went zing as it fell out of the car.

    I will say I doubt most thugs would be decked out in raid gear and hope I would recognize a raid team - but then again I seriously doubt they would be on my property here - the closest neighbor is over 100 yards away and the one on the other side is about 400 yards out.
     
  12. Lars

    Lars Clackamas Active Member

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    It seems to me that it is a sad day when people see something wrong and hide in the house to see what happens. I understand it is safer but how different would our society be if when there is trouble everyone comes out of their house armed to help their neighbors and others in need. Don't be pointing your gun at someone unless you know your target and you are ready to shoot though.
     
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  13. rumblebee1967

    rumblebee1967 Bellingham Active Member

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    Unfortunately or not we are not allowed to use deadly force to protect our property. We should have insurance for that. A gun is to stop or prevent physical damage to you or another individual. He should have called 911 and remained inside and prepared. It is unfortunate that the man was shot of course and I hope he recovers. I would be surprised if he won a lawsuit for trespass but who knows in todays court system. Wishing him well.
     
  14. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    It really sucks that if/when some asshat is roaming around in the dark in my backyard I can't go after him armed and ready. But the law is the law and I fear incarceration more than someone stealing my lawnmower. I do have a couple 1300 lumen flashlights so I guess I can play mall cop.

    Peek-a-boo I see you. Maybe I could turn the garden hose on him lol. Or not - he'd catch a cold and I'd be sued for it.
     
  15. Toxic6

    Toxic6 Higher then a PDX hipster (~10,000 ft higher) Active Member

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    I can't believe the accepted stance is that you have no legal authority to protect your property, or even investigate trespassers - and that it is ok for these poorly planned mishaps (read crimes) to happen. I'm not "anit-cop" or whatever you want to call it, but why the hell is this ok?

    Better planning, communication, - maybe even a knock on the door "hi, please go lay in your bathtubs or basement we are about to serve a high risk warrant on your neighbor and it may get ugly" (sarcasm a little there). Why is the plan always wait to hit potentially armed, dangerous subjects at night, home and in their element.....why not follow and serve them the warrant at work, on the street, or in their car - then serve them the warrant and have the house tossed as you take them into custody.
     
  16. SteelyDan

    SteelyDan Junction City Active Member

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    Give somebody a tank, tactical gear and automatic weapons and you are suprised that they shoot somebody? That's like giving me a 'Vette and then expecting me not to bend some speed limits!

    I also live in a rural area and I would not let the fight come to me. I would rather deal with intruders in an outdoor setting before I welcomed a gun fight within my walls!
     
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  17. ericb

    ericb Klamath Falls, OR Active Member

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    If someone is lurking outside my house and I go outside to investigate, I always go armed. If someone is lurking around, you don't know their intentions or if they are dangerous. I wouldn't trust the unknown person to not attack me, leaving my wife and child inside without protection. I could call the cops and hide in the closet, but it would take half an hour for the police to get to my house, if they came at all.
     
  18. rolandson

    rolandson Oregon Active Member

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    Toxic, we're talking about the Portland Police Bureau remember...

    Nearly every week there is another of these poorly planned mishaps. And nearly every week we here in Portland pay out another six or seven figure settlement or jury award because of them. The local courts demand better training, a grand jury demanded better training, the feds demand better training, and we citizens demand better training. The only ones not demanding better training are our illustrious mayor, city counsel and police command...so our police have second rate training. We would be better off with posses.

    You ask "why not"? Why not indeed.
     
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  19. jasonabernathy75

    jasonabernathy75 Wilsonville Oregon Member

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    Its funny, one night I left my garage door up and around 10:30 a Washington County deputy knocked on my door. i did not answer and i heard banging around in my garage. At that moment i drew down on the deputy, of course we both pooped in our pants when we seen each other, i then stood down and he did too, we both understood what was going on and he apologized and to me because he was wrong. I don't care where you are, if your on private property, you should announce yourself prior to shooting someone. I am sure he would have stood down.
     
  20. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The reverse 911 thing was the very first thought that went through my head. I can understand both sides of the argument about defending your property but on the other hand look what happens when you try against cops not knowing they are cops. It's a no-win for a homeowner/renter in that situation.

    BTW, I think what osterr1999 did in a similar situation is the right thing to do even though curiosity and the natural instinct to protect your property might compel some to go outside.