Man confusing tactical officers with intruders gets shot

[Toxic6]

Me......I'll plead the 5th.

But really, what would they expect to happen if you caught them molesting your animals? Ask them if they need a beverage, and if they're having a good time?

 

[bikejunkie]

No surprise I found it from another thread (on this forum).

Would you shoot an intruder who happens to be violating livestock or property without actually removing it from your property?

You could shoot them, but you would be headed to jail for homicide- that's the way the law is.




Unless you had pigs that could eat the body and all the evidence...

 

[Kevatc]

Well, we'll know what he was thinking when he tells us.

Never mind that we paid through the nose for it, from my perspective, I am incredulous over the failure of police to employ the reverse 911 system in an effort to protect the welfare of neighbors during an operation they, the cops, felt was high risk enough to use a swat team and late night entry to accomplish.

Those in command of this catastrophic failure should lose their jobs.

I 100% agree with your thoughts.

I don't want to sound like I am passing judgment on the guy who was shot since I don't know all the facts. However, if I step outside and see folks with guns the fact that they may or may not have badges is irrelevant. I don't want to be in a situation where I might have to trade bullets outside of my home. I would rather retreat into my home, have the person enter illegally, and then be 100% justified in defending myself.

 

[dmancornell]

Thread title is wrong, the man didn't confuse anything, the cops were intruders.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Why is it that the police can't serve arrest warrants AWAY from residential neighborhoods? Why is it that they CHOOSE to confront suspects in the places where their weapons are available, where they have prepared to hole up and repel outsiders? Why do they purposely invade residential areas in the dark with weapons locked and loaded, when they KNOW that there is a great likelihood of this kind of mistake, where innocent, law abiding citizens are going to get involved?

Wouldn't it make more sense to serve an arrest warrant when the suspect is away from home? As part of a traffic stop? Or at the local bar? Wouldn't it make sense to serve a search warrant on the suspect's home AFTER he's been arrested? No, this is sheer incompetence and stupidity. The only benefit I can see to the way it's done now is that it gives them all a chance to dress up in uniforms and play with the expensive, quasi-military weapons and electronics gear that the feds have bought for them. Even evidence found in a search of the house incident to arrest is on shaky grounds in court. Or is it that they get a reasonable chance to blow the suspect away if he resists, rather than simply arresting him by the side of the road. Or is it all done just for the adrenaline rush?

 

[mpmax]

Remember when the police dressed like....the police? The tactical Ninja black suit and mask thing is getting old.

 

[ironmike86]

I live in a rural area on a couple acres. Let's see, barking dogs, livestock agitated, unidentified people in dark clothing poking around outbuildings...

Yes, I'm going to investigate and probably take a handgun and big beam with me. All I know is I've got unannounced trespassers fooling around with my livestock and outbuildings. Am I supposed to cower in my basement and hope they go away?

This business of trigger happy, armored police in paramilitary gear serving warrants unannounced in the middle of the night has got to stop. It's a recipe for disaster and the police need to start being held accountable. We are not sheep and they are not sheepdogs.

yes on a couple acres. Then they probably wouldn't be on your property. But looks like it was a rural development with alot of houses small yards....from the pics anyways. I woulda just stayed in my house called the cops with my firearm.

 

[Rascals]

The silence from the media on this is defening. I guess there must besome kind blackout on this. Cant find anything more then the first reports out on this. How about anybody else any more info?

 

[MilitantBEEMER]

I have been wondering the same thing. Not a word on this anywhere that I can find.

 

[bikejunkie]

I'm sure the next thing you will hear will be a small addendum at the back of the Oregonian's website quietly announcing a settlement...Our tax dollars at work...

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

There a lot of variables in this story. Bad judgment on this homeowners part in my view. 1st, if he saw more than 1 armed person, in the yard, not to smart going into a gunfight, outnumbered and outgunned. Maybe someone can clear this up, Oregon law does not allow a homeowner to protect his property with deadly force? This is different in other states. Also, Trespassing law, wouldn't the home owner need to post no trespassing signs at all corners of his property for the officers to be trespassing?
The next thing to think about is yes, if you lived in rural areas, the situation may lead to a different outcome...I would maybe go out with a gun, if as previously stated lived on a farm and worried about live stock, but in a neighborhood....maybe he just bought a sweet new riding lawn mower, yet I would think most would not go out with a gun if they logically thought the situation over.
Should the police have made verbal contact before shooting, yes, why didn't they knock on his door, probably because they don't need a neighbor calling the home that is being raided to alert them of the upcoming. Now put yourself in the officers place, you are making your way to a high-risk warrant or felony raid, and out of nowhere some guy is pointing a gun at you, seconds are too long in this decision, and this officer is going to shoot first, go home and kiss his family and then let the situation play out later, probably not going to ask the person his name and intentions, or use 3 seconds to state his enforcement status and affiliation. This is one of those deals where problems were made on both sides and one could argue both ways, especially if you are just reading it and not involved...I interested on how this turns out. Pretty neutral on this one.

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

i would like to see some more facts, the lady said the police went through their house, and then reading the rest, very well, could be a mix of 1 word; house and property, i want to see a official report that explains this in detail, did they enter the guys house to go through it, or did they enter the wrong house, or did this get changed in the awesome paint a picture media. Or did they just go through the property, there could be some lost in translation if English is not the language dominantly used in this house hold, not saying anything about this households anything, just that I know that last name is a common mexican name, and I have seen 1 word get used differently and changes the entire story. show me the Cops Fax

 

[Burt Gummer]

What happens in these cases when the police shoot or murder is that after a time the cop is usually reinstated and get a pat on the back. That part of the story is on page 33, or only covered by small news sources. Settlements are swept under the rug also, 1.2 million in this case - your tax dollars - and then this POS gets his job back.

BREAKING: Police Force May Take Frashour Back | Blogtown, PDX

 

[dmancornell]

What happens in these cases when the police shoot or murder is that after a time the cop is usually reinstated and get a pat on the back. That part of the story is on page 33, or only covered by small news sources. Settlements are swept under the rug also, 1.2 million in this case - your tax dollars - and then this POS gets his job back.

BREAKING: Police Force May Take Frashour Back | Blogtown, PDX

 

[Redcap]

No surprise I found it from another thread (on this forum).

Would you shoot an intruder who happens to be violating livestock or property without actually removing it from your property?

Absolutely.

 

[JGRuby]

Absolutely.

You do and we will see you in twenty years. Good luck.

James Ruby

 

[Hawkeye5829]

How about just calling 911? Instead of chasing supposed bad guys in the dark? I think the prudent thing to do would be to stay in the house (armed) and just dial 911. Would you rather be right or dead? But of course if you guys want to play John Wayne, go ahead. I just don't think its the smart play to pursue supposed BG's in the dark.

 

[SteelyDan]

How about just calling 911? Instead of chasing supposed bad guys in the dark? I think the prudent thing to do would be to stay in the house (armed) and just dial 911. Would you rather be right or dead? But of course if you guys want to play John Wayne, go ahead. I just don't think its the smart play to pursue supposed BG's in the dark.

I don't know about that theory. For example, I live in an extremely rural area where gunshots are not uncommon and police response is 20-30 mins away at best. If I hear suspicous noises outside I am not going to wait for them to cross my threshold and have a gunbattle in the house with the family around. I am going to secure the family and go outside to investigate....a "bring the fight to them" tactic.

 

[Hawkeye5829]

I don't know about that theory. For example, I live in an extremely rural area where gunshots are not uncommon and police response is 20-30 mins away at best. If I hear suspicous noises outside I am not going to wait for them to cross my threshold and have a gunbattle in the house with the family around. I am going to secure the family and go outside to investigate....a "bring the fight to them" tactic.

Well to each his own stratagy. I personally would remain in the house, easier to protect my loved ones, than if I was out wandering around the back 40. Seems to me , to bring the fight to them, you would have to know exactly where they were. I prefer them to come to me in this situation. Sort of like sitting in a deer stand. I would put my family in the bedroom, call 911, and wait. If they came in the house, I would blast them to kingdom come, courtesy of my 12 gauge shotgun.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

The urge to hunker down in a safe place will get you killed every time in a fire fight. The deciding factors in a fire fight are which side knows where the others are, and who is more mobile. Once you hunker down and your location is identified, you will be flanked and eventually overwhelmed. The deer stand idea sounds great, but remember that the deer aren't armed and trying to come after you.

Who knows your rural property better than you do in the dark? Who knows what's normal and what's out of place? Who knows where the dogs are, where the potholes are, and where the electric fence is? Who knows the fields of fire from each location, and which locations offer good cover? As the resident you have a tremendous advantage outside where you can move around.