''Loophole' Question

[RVTECH]

I think I am missing something. Whenever I hear or read about the so-called 'Gunshow Loophole' I am a little confused. If a gunshow is being held in a state where FTF transactions are NOT allowed then how can the loophole exist? Someone please educate me on this because I obviously do not understand it. Thanks.

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[FarmerTed1971]

Common term for those that have no idea what they are talking about. Basically an anti-gun talking point.

 

[deen_ad]

There is no "loophole". It's perfectly legal for a private citizen to sell his collection with no NICS check required in most states.

 

[Mark W.]

There is no "loophole". It's perfectly legal for a private citizen to sell his collection with no NICS check required in most states.

Not at a Gun Show in Oregon it isn't All sales inside or originating at the gun show including the parking lot are required by law to go through a background check.

 

[caden08]

I always see guys and even been approached myself on selling a firearm at Pdx gunshows

 

[Mark W.]

I always see guys and even been approached myself on selling a firearm at Pdx gunshows

Yes well to complete the sale you must do a call to OSP for a background check. Or your breaking the law.

 

[caden08]

Pretty ridiculous I can walk 5 feet out a side door to N Marine drive and sell it. Just not on expo property.

 

[mjbskwim]

Pretty ridiculous I can walk 5 feet out a side door to N Marine drive and sell it. Just not on expo property.

Not from what your statesmen say.Like Mark says in post #4 if the sale originates at the show,even if y'all walk across the street you need to do the check down there.
I would guess it happens once in a while though.

 

[drew]

Not from what your statesmen say.Like Mark says in post #4 if the sale originates at the show,even if y'all walk across the street you need to do the check down there.
I would guess it happens once in a while though.

I'd suggest setting up shop just outside of the show's parking lot with a guns for sale sign. Not as convenient as selling them inside but you'd save admission, parking, and the background check fee.

 

[Mark W.]

Originally Posted by caden08
"Pretty ridiculous I can walk 5 feet out a side door to N Marine drive and sell it. Just not on expo property".

Well yes you can find a way to break the law real easy. In fact since your location shows you are from Washougal WA. Should you meet someone to sell your firearm to while at the Expo show or on expo property or the road into the Expo and you walk across Marine drive and stand in the truck yard and complete the sale you will have broken TWO laws one State and one Federal. Since you as a Washington Resident can not come to Oregon and sell a Firearm unless you return the firearm to Washington and ship it to a FFL in Oregon who will then do the 4473. Or you conduct the transaction at a dealers Like Cocktailers who has both an Oregon and Washington Address on their FFL. And of course the Oregon law would be the sale of a firearm through a gun show without the required background check.

Least that is what I believe the various laws to say. I'm not a lawyer and could careless if you go to jail. So take or ignor my advise as you see fit.

 

[BSG 75]

I think I am missing something. Whenever I hear or read about the so-called 'Gunshow Loophole' I am a little confused. If a gunshow is being held in a state where FTF transactions are NOT allowed then how can the loophole exist? Someone please educate me on this because I obviously do not understand it. Thanks.

At least 33 states do not require people who are not licensed dealers to have a background check performed when they sell a firearm. If they sell a firearm at home they don't have to perform a background check. If they meet someone in a parking lot to sell a firearm they don't have to perform a background check. If they rent a table at a gun show and sell a firearm they don't have to perform a background check. Meanwhile, a licensed dealer next to them at a gun show does have to perform a background check. That is the origin of the so-called "gun show loophole". Licensed dealers at gun shows have to perform background checks, but non-dealers at the same gun show don't in those 33 states. The people who are upset about the so-called "gun show loophole" don't like the fact that guns are sold at gun shows by non-dealers without a background check.

Some states like Oregon have "closed the gun show loophole" by requiring all firearms transactions at a "gun show" (more than 25 guns available for sale) to have a background check. Other states like California go beyond that, requiring all firearm sales (with a few exceptions) to have a background check performed, inside or outside a gun show. Private sellers and buyers have to arrange to meet at a place for a background check to be performed.

Bill H.R. 1781 Fix Gun Checks Act of 2011 would make the whole country like California and require all firearm sales have a background check performed, no matter where. Read The Bill: H.R. 1781 - May 5, 2011 - GovTrack.us

The problem with that idea is that it would be hard to enforce without universal firearm registration, which would be the next step. After all, the government couldn't be watching every gun show, parking lot, garage, and living room in the country to see if a firearm is being sold. The only way the government would know a sale had taken place was if owners were required to register their new guns. They would have to show that they had acquired the firearm legally, including passing the required background check, when they registered their new firearm.

Universal registration is the next logical step if this passes, unless they don't really care about enforcing it, except for an occasional "sting" operation to scare people into compliance. Without universal gun registration, enforcement would be similar to enforcing laws against prostitution, setting up "sting" operations with fake buyers (undercover law enforcement), seeing if the seller performs the required background check. After a few years of that the anti-gun types would say "look at all these illegal gun sales our sting operations have found, but they keep on happening. We need gun registration to make things easier for our over-worked law enforcement officers running these sting operations".

 

[drew]

Bill H.R. 1781 Fix Gun Checks Act of 2011 would make the whole country like California and require all firearm sales have a background check performed, no matter where. Read The Bill: H.R. 1781 - May 5, 2011 - GovTrack.us

The problem with that idea is that it would be hard to enforce without universal firearm registration, which would be the next step. After all, the government couldn't be watching every gun show, parking lot, garage, and living room in the country to see if a firearm is being sold. The only way the government would know a sale had taken place was if owners were required to register their new guns. They would have to show that they had acquired the firearm legally, including passing the required background check, when they registered their new firearm.

Universal registration is the next logical step if this passes, unless they don't really care about enforcing it, except for an occasional "sting" operation to scare people into compliance. Without universal gun registration, enforcement would be similar to enforcing laws against prostitution, setting up "sting" operations with fake buyers (undercover law enforcement), seeing if the seller performs the required background check. After a few years of that the anti-gun types would say "look at all these illegal gun sales our sting operations have found, but they keep on happening. We need gun registration to make things easier for our over-worked law enforcement officers running these sting operations".

Another one of Carolyn McCarthy's efforts, luckily she hasn't been very successful or all privately owned guns would have been melted down by now. It also looks like it expands prohibited persons. Continuing to expand what disqualifies people from owning firearms appear to be where they're focusing. I think registration is one of their goals but it would be political suicide to pursue.

 

[RVTECH]

if the sale originates at the show,even if y'all walk across the street you need to do the check down there.

This could open up a whole new set of problems such as defining the meaning of a sale 'originating at the show'.

 

[mjbskwim]

You guys think they actually watch you at the shows?Do they have someone taking pictures of the people with guns and signage?
I decided to delete the rest.
Never mind,y'all will figure it out.Glad we don't have that problem,although I believe the WAC shows look down on members trading outside the show

 

[husker]

They have and do set up stings.

 

[mjbskwim]

So a lot of you with pens and post note pads huh?

 

[Greenbug]

I saw 2 people (private parties) being arrested at gun shows last year in Oregon for making a sale without a background check. They have something going on, but it is not clear how they are doing it.

 

[deen_ad]

Not at a Gun Show in Oregon it isn't All sales inside or originating at the gun show including the parking lot are required by law to go through a background check.

Please note that I said "no NICS check required in most states", not that none was required in OR!!

 

[Mark W.]

Please note that I said "no NICS check required in most states", not that none was required in OR!!

ya so I didn't disagree with you just made a clarification for a good portion of the people reading the thread.