Looking for HD recommendations for an older family member

[ScottInPDX]

Does it have to be a pistol?

Not at all. I'm just collecting ideas for now, open to any suggestions as long as it's semi-auto and can mount optics.

I'm still not understanding how difficulty lining up sights translates to a hole in the ceiling.

The high shot wasn't accidentally straight up or anything ridiculous like that. The impact was much further downrange than the target, which I think was 7 or 10 yards out.

During that shot I was watching downrange and had her in my peripheral vision, so I didn't see exactly what happened. Based on talking to her and a range officer there, I think it was caused by several mistakes stacked on top of each other:

• Poor vertical sight alignment
• Heavy trigger pull
• Shot anticipation and flinching

But we did end the shooting session after that and haven't been back, so I have to admit that there could have been other contributing factors. We would need some more range time to figure it out for sure. She has never been a big shooter and hadn't done it in over 30 years until this, but she did follow instructions well and was happy to be there. It was not an AD or ND.

I have no indication at this time that she wouldn't be able to significantly improve her abilities with some consistent practice with the right firearm.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I'm still not understanding how difficulty lining up sights translates to a hole in the ceiling. It's just not adequately explained. No pun intended, but I can't picture it. I'm wondering how pointing the gun at any overhead in front of the table constitutes lining up the sights. Was this an indoor range; was it right in front of the table; or was it further downrange right near the target; is there a much worse eyesight problem than not being able to see sights; just wave and shoot? Not hassling you, I'm just trying to understand something that you brought up. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt because we aren't there to see what the conditions are (and maybe it's just a communication difficulty)... but

Cooper safety rule #3 applies:
3. Keep your finger off the trigger (and outside the trigger guard) till your sights are on the target

FWIW I'm an IDPA SO/RO for matches and failure to keep finger off trigger or an AD/ND will get one disqualified from the match. Repeated violations will get a shooter permanently banned. AFAIK most ranges that have Range Officers have the same rules.

Just sayin...

If it was a DA revolver, my bet is there was cockage and then fingerage.
DA revolvers should only be fired in DA mode.

 

[bbbass]

If it was a DA revolver, my bet is there was cockage and then fingerage.
DA revolvers should only be fired in DA mode.

In other words, an "inadvertent discharge". Sounds like an AD to me...

 

[ScottInPDX]

If it was a DA revolver, my bet is there was cockage and then fingerage.
DA revolvers should only be fired in DA mode.

In other words, an "inadvertent discharge". Sounds like an AD to me...

She was firing in DA, not cocking the hammer. Hence the very heavy trigger pull. I suspect she didn't have the finger strength to pull the trigger and was putting her whole arm into it. It was her first and only shot with it.

 

[titsonritz]

The whole thing is worth watching but at starting 3:45 it is pertinent to the OP...

 

[FourTeeFive]

To focus on the gun (certainly other issues are valid), I got my wife a S&W 380 EZ since she is starting to have problems gripping the slide tight enough to reliably rack back due to arthritis. It's a good size gun; fits an average to small hand well, is low recoil due to not being a blowback like most 380s and not being too small, and it is very easy to rack the slide. It's actually a nicer gun than I had expected!

 

[Flymph]

Savage 1907, 32ACP... reliable with most any ammo, accurate so she'll just have to point it really, almost no recoil, good size grip for anyone, 10 round mags. Probably one of the best pocket pistols ever made, if not the best. They can also be had for about $400-$600, maybe cheaper if it's ugly.
Colt fanboys eat socks!

 

[Flopsweat]

Some people struggle to learn to use holographic/red dot sights. I've taught a lot of folks on these types of sights and by far the most difficult is anything mounted on a pistol. I think a cheek weld goes a long way toward finding the dot. If you have a firearm with a red dot on it, you might want to have her try it out and see if she can learn to use it effectively. Otherwise I've had great results painting the front sight with florescent, neon or day-glow orange or green paint. Also, with the right kind of flashlight mounted on the gun, the bright center of the light can be a very effective aiming aid at close distances.

Also, it is possible to lighten the double-action pull on a revolver or DA/SA semiauto. I'm not sure if that's a responsible choice in this particular situation, but it's an option.

A braced pistol in 9mm or .22 might work if you can find one with a simple manual of arms. These tend to accept large magazines. This will lessen the need for a reload, which can be a complex issue for those with reduced capabilities. The brace will facilitate point shooting, which is what a lot of folks seem to resort to in emergency situations anyway.

After typing all of this, bear spray is starting to sound like a pretty good option. It's a little less concentrated than people spray but it's still very effective, has much better range, and as mentioned before is easier to manipulate. Be sure to tell her to get away from the sprayed area as soon as possible. That stuff can linger indoors.

I know none of us here are in a position to know which choice is better, but you seem like a caring nephew and it sounds like you're putting a lot of thought into this. Good for you! I hope I have someone like you if I get old enough to need them.

 

[edzz]

IMHO Loose the red dot idea, too much of a training issue. Why can't I see it? Am I holding it right? Oh shi.. is it turned on?

I'm a fan of letting people try various pistols. More than one person has ended up going with a Beretta Tomcat .32 acp.

However if only for home defense, a good double barrel 12 gauge. Step out on the porch fire both barrels up in the air... Those bad guys will be gone quicker than you can say "Holey (sp) sheep shi.. Batman".

 

[titsonritz]

More than one person has ended up going with a Beretta Tomcat .32 acp.

Or Beretta Cheetah 86 in .380

 

[edzz]

Or Beretta Cheetah 86 in .380

Not a bad choice, just a bit snappy for some. My wife doesn't care for most .380's, blow backs generally are too snappy to be comfortable for her, she opted for a S&W 9mm Shield as being easier to handle. However when size matters she has her Tomcat.

 

[Nosferatu]

Custom Air Cane Guns | Boris Palatnik’s Art

Find functional cane guns; each cane gun is equipped with a 12 shot semiautomatic air gun installed into the shaft. Each shot reloads automatically.

borispalatnik.com

 

[Member 52301]

Have her take her cane with her when she goes out just in case she needs it physically or for 'self defense'.

Can she use PEPPER SPRAY safely? Pepper spray meant for human self defense?

I don't know the name brands now for human beings but I have seen the bear sprays out here. My MT husband had some bear spray, it expired, but he RELIES on his firearms more than spray.

NO wasp spray - lawsuit time!

Disclaimer: I do NOT carry or use pepper spray for perps but I have considered it.

I TRUST a good FIXED BLADE knife AND (CF RIFLE - past tense for me.) a RF RIFLE more than SPRAY for various reasons which I will not go into here now.

Can she use a FIXED BLADE KNIFE safely?

Can she use a small camp axe (Estwing, etc.) or a 'hawk (Sog, etc.) in her home for self defense?

I would NOT go with a handgun due to some of the physical issues that you mentioned. NO open or conceal carry due to VARIOUS issues that you mentioned.

Can she SAFELY shoot and handle a SIMPLE 22wmr or 22lr bolt action rifle with a single shot magazine insert, 5 round or 10 round magazine? Can she LOAD the magazines or just put in ONE ROUND in?

Can she SAFELY shoot and handle a 22wmr or 22lr simple lever action rifle?

I would NOT go with red dots or scopes.

I would go with a 22wmr and 22lr BOLT ACTION RIFLE or a lever action rifle BUT only IF she can safely and accurately shoot it.

A single shot or over under or side by side shotgun in a .410 might work for her. I have considered them, like them but I have NEVER owned a shotgun.

Personally - I believe that she would be better off with HER CANE, a GOOD FIXED BLADE KNIFE - a FEW good knives in various BLADE LENGTHS, SPRAY, have a small axe and 'hawk at home.

I could give you some examples here if you want them and what worked for ME with some physical issues and at 70 years old.

I still WALK with and without a cane, SWIM, DANCE at home, take/use a cane if I should NEED IT when I am out or when I am stiff at home, carry a FIXED blade knife in various lengths - concealed or open carry depending on where I am going/traveling, have a SMALL CAMP AXE (ESTWING.) and a 'hawk (SOG.) and a few other axes too.

I have worn Rx eyeglasses since I was 5 years old and bi-focals since I was in my 40's. I am STILL a good shot with iron sights and since my MAIN REASONS for owning/shooting guns are for the RKBA issue and self defense... iron sights work for me.

I am NO longer a high volume shooter and I no longer compete.

I NO longer own, carry or shoot handguns in RF or in CF calibers too. And handguns were MY thing from the gitgo from the late 90's and on. I gave them up due to MY physical issues and I did not want to ruin my hands some more NO matter what I decided to shoot in RF or CF calibers. Plus with MY arthritis - I did NOT feel comfortable on BAD HAND DAYS to open or conceal carry so I made MY decision for me. ADDED MORE!

I don't hunt - I never did. I have gone on hunts with my MT husband on and off as an observer. Nature trips. (I like to fish.) I am no long range shooter - sniper.

I am VERY GOOD with a knife even though I DO have hand arthritis and old accident issues. I had a bad fall - landed HARD not too long ago too. Around Christmas time? My right hand still bothers me on and off too. Ugh.

CZ 457 Lux in 22wmr and 22lr are what I use. BOLT ACTION RIFLES with IRON SIGHTS!

We have the CZ SCOUT in 2 model years. Lighter weight.

We have the CZ Training rifle and the CZ 455 which I gave to my husband.

ALL of them are nice rifles.

A simple SAVAGE RASCAL bolt action - single shot 22lr is good for handicapped people and for younger/older Newbies to shoot safely too. Easy to use in a w/c too. We donated 2 of them to our range.

Rimfire | CZ-USA (cz-usa.com)

CZ 457 Lux | CZ-USA (cz-usa.com)

I consider the CZ 457 LUX in 22wmr my MAIN RIFLE for self defense with the CZ 457 LUX in 22lr as a back up one.

The CZ SCOUT is easy to handle and lighter weight - I have shot my husband's 2 Scouts.

The CZ TRAINING rifle is longer and heavier and might not be a good FIT FOR HER.

IF she wants and can SAFELY SHOOT a sweet LEVER ACTION RIFLE - I would make some more suggestions to her too. (22lr and 22wmr) I SOLD all of my beautiful, much heavier, walnut, steel, etc. lever action rifles in RF and CF and specifically went to the lighter weight in some cases - BOLT action rifles. There are some nice AND not too HEAVY lever action rifles in top brands - quality made ones.

IF your Aunt has a chance to try out some of the guns that I mentioned with YOU being by her side to see how she HANDLES them and can SEE - that might help her make a decision. I gather that this will be her HOUSE GUN? Walls of her home? Brick house? Condo? Apartment?

Best wishes to your Aunt.

Old Lady Cate

 

[Member 52301]

First, thank you for taking an interest in your aunt's safety. Allow me to go in a different direction. Although I absolutely support her right to own a firearm, perhaps there might be some better considerations given all the age-related issues you describe.

Pepper spray.

As some people's visual, physical and mental faculties decline, especially if they have not been training all their lives like many of us here have, the learning curve with the defensive use of a firearm may be too steep to safely surmount. You are looking at teaching someone how to run the gun, use a red dot and/or laser along with all the basics of firearm use and then the "when" of how to use a firearm in self defense...this is not going to be an easy road. If you choose to take this road and stick with it, again, kudos to you and you should be nominated for sainthood (seriously).

You can't un-fire a gun, and pepper spray will be a deterrent without unintended lethal consequences against perhaps the wrong person. Below is a recent example that ended tragically. Sincerely, best wishes on this journey.

VICTORVILLE, CALIFORNIA, January 13, 2021 — A 91-year-old woman, who her family say was legally blind and deaf, died after being shot by police who were responding to a call that she had made.​

​

That woman, Betty Francois, who lived alone, called 911 to report that she believed an intruder was at her house. When police arrived, she came to the door and was armed with a shotgun. They told her to put the gun down, but instead she pointed it at them.​

News article

Holy moly! WHY did the family not step in if this OLD LADY was BLIND and DEAF and remove her gun?!

Heck, I wouldn't PICK UP A FIREARM without putting my Rx eyeglasses on first worse off any other SELF DEFENSE TOOL like a knife, an axe or a 'hawk!

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

I'm still not understanding how difficulty lining up sights translates to a hole in the ceiling. It's just not adequately explained. No pun intended, but I can't picture it. I'm wondering how pointing the gun at any overhead in front of the table constitutes lining up the sights. Was this an indoor range; was it right in front of the table; or was it further downrange right near the target; is there a much worse eyesight problem than not being able to see sights; just wave and shoot? Not hassling you, I'm just trying to understand something that you brought up. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt because we aren't there to see what the conditions are (and maybe it's just a communication difficulty)... but

Cooper safety rule #3 applies:
3. Keep your finger off the trigger (and outside the trigger guard) till your sights are on the target

FWIW I'm an IDPA SO/RO for matches and failure to keep finger off trigger or an AD/ND will get one disqualified from the match. Repeated violations will get a shooter permanently banned. AFAIK most ranges that have Range Officers have the same rules.

Just sayin...

^^^

THIS! Thank you.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Your Aunt has not shot a gun in 30 some years until she shot with you recently. This was in one of your posts.

Now she wants to learn how to shoot all over again, buy another gun perhaps (?) and become a proficient shooter.

Yet, she has some physical issues that you mentioned here and there in your posts.

Does she believe that she would be a SAFE shooter, will she keep up her basic shooting skills, learn how to shoot properly from the gitgo with you teaching her or her taking a good firearms safety class?

Best wishes to your Aunt again.

Cate

 

[bbbass]

Holy moly! WHY did the family not step in if this OLD LADY was BLIND and DEAF and remove her gun?!

Heck, I wouldn't PICK UP A FIREARM without putting my Rx eyeglasses on first worse off any other SELF DEFENSE TOOL like a knife, an axe or a 'hawk!

Cate

Hi Cate,

IDK, but a lot of older people living on their own don't have family around to see what they are up to. There are some very lonely old folks out there. When the Senior Center was still open for lunch (thanx Covid! ), I would often see some pretty decrepit seniors wander over from nearby housing. Some older lives are sad and bereft of somebody to care about them.

Blessings to you and your husband,

bb

 

[bbbass]

OP, just be careful. The story as told is not adding up to good gun safety to me, but I'm not going to push it farther because I think you've shown enough concern that you will check her out during the next outing and help her make a good decision.

Thanx for being willing to listen and discuss, and thanx for caring about your senior aunt!!

bb

 

[Member 34319]

This is one of those times a good green laser would be more beneficial than a red dot.

If it doesn't have to be a pistol per say.

Here is a different choice. Easy recoil, easy to manipulate, can hold with two hands at the hip, can use a laser to aim. Saw a lady at the range with one. Her explanations were spot on. Easy to use, little recoil. Green laser added to aim, she shot it from the hip mostly so she didn't have to hold it up to long. When asked about the blast being deafening, she replied, that may be true but wouldn't the invader also be deafened. She was hitting in the torso on the target with the laser without issue.

 

[Nosferatu]

This is one of those times a good green laser would be more beneficial than a red dot.

If it doesn't have to be a pistol per say.

Here is a different choice. Easy recoil, easy to manipulate, can hold with two hands at the hip, can use a laser to aim. Saw a lady at the range with one. Her explanations were spot on. Easy to use, little recoil. Green laser added to aim, she shot it from the hip mostly so she didn't have to hold it up to long. When asked about the blast being deafening, she replied, that may be true but wouldn't the invader also be deafened. She was hitting in the torso on the target with the laser without issue.

View attachment 844437

Would help to include info on WTF it is...