Lee Charging Die and other rifle loading questions

[osprey]

I have experimented with both one shot spray lube and hombrew concoction of lanolin and 99% iso alcohol. Neither one caused any issues with powder burn when residue was left inside cases.

 

[Herb g]

I see an RCBS Chargemaster in there...

How do you like it, or automatic dispensing in general?

How do they do with extruded powders like 4064?
I'm looking to ramp up my rifle production and have been wondering if they are with the money?

Looked at the RCBS, Lyman and Hornady models but have heard mixed reviews... Internet being the internet I take it lightly...

Looks like you actually use one, is it worth it?

Sorry, I missed your question. Chargemaster? Outstanding. There are three there. Picture is a fraction of what's there. Never found a ball or stick powder that didn't measure within .01, and consistent. Occasionally find them in classifieds for 200 or so. I like the old two piece best, if you can find one. New ones are faster, but can get squirrelly. For Blue Dot, Steel (flake) for reduced loads, use the scale and dribble. The first Dillon, with automatic powder drop, was a wake up, because it wasn't consistent with stick, like H-4198. Just experimented and found Lil Gun, 2200, CFE-BLK, that got back to .01 consistently. Hope that helps.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Slightly unrelated....

What do you all use for lube before sizing rifle brass??

I tried one shot I tried the RCBS Lube and pad, the Lee stuff with ill effects (maybe it was my technique) and now use the lanolin and Heet concoction that works like a champ. It is so slick oh, it is slicker than owl snot on a rainy night.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Important not to contaminate powder with anything that sticks to it. Look inside the case neck after you've charged powder, if you see any powder sticking on neck walls. No more of that with dry lube.

Yep, I've been down that road.... WHY IS THERE POWDER ALL OVER MY BENCH WTH???
Yes I warn myself of things going awry just in case I don't notice. Lol

 

[Member 5605]

Slightly unrelated....

What do you all use for lube before sizing rifle brass??

Homebrew case lube.

 

[shibbershabber]

Homebrew case lube.

So I can mix that up and spray cases on the block, despite waste...

How long after applying can the cases be sized?

 

[Herb g]

I have experimented with both one shot spray lube and hombrew concoction of lanolin and 99% iso alcohol. Neither one caused any issues with powder burn when residue was left inside cases.

Found a new spot of high volume rats. After first trip, it took me two weeks of all day loading on a single stage to get enough ammo to get back. Got a 550 to speed things up, and try to save steps by tumbling less often. On let's say 20vt: first light finger swipe of imperial wax on case with a hint over the top for the expander ball ( this is pre dry-lube), pull the handle to deprime, FL size, and prime...then drop powder, seat bullet - done. How I found something was amiss was I had to pull some bullets for some reason. Inside the neck, a small lump of powder caked together, caused from the minuscule amount of lube inside the neck. Dry lube fixed problem because it's dry graphite. Never liked the mica because was still drag on the expander ball,not as smooth as graphite. So I would think that any greasy substance on your case walls could cause problems. Think these loads had been to the hot country and back- if that made a difference in melting the wax - ??

 

[osprey]

Found a new spot of high volume rats. After first trip, it took me two weeks of all day loading on a single stage to get enough ammo to get back. Got a 550 to speed things up, and try to save steps by tumbling less often. On let's say 20vt: first light finger swipe of imperial wax on case with a hint over the top for the expander ball ( this is pre dry-lube), pull the handle to deprime, FL size, and prime...then drop powder, seat bullet - done. How I found something was amiss was I had to pull some bullets for some reason. Inside the neck, a small lump of powder caked together, caused from the minuscule amount of lube inside the neck. Dry lube fixed problem because it's dry graphite. Never liked the mica because was still drag on the expander ball,not as smooth as graphite. So I would think that any greasy substance on your case walls could cause problems. Think these loads had been to the hot country and back- if that made a difference in melting the wax - ??

I know many of the lubes can cause problems. I can only speak to the ones I referenced. I purposely left the lubes I use in the cases and shot the ammo side by side with ammo with no lube left in cases. There was no change in ammo performance whatsoever. As always Ymmv.

 

[Member 5605]

So I can mix that up and spray cases on the block, despite waste...

How long after applying can the cases be sized?

It's cheap enough to make compared to premade.. sure. You should though grab a large bowl, spray in there. I have mine in a bowl so I can get the inside of the case necks too while spraying. The lanolin will also keep your hands soft.

The big thing is to let the alcohol evaporate completely. I spray mine, then come back in a day or two when I have time and size. No issues at that point. Alcohol won't compress, so if you have wet cases you can hydraulically dent the cases from trapped alcohol... the same will happen with too much lube from any product.

You can also spray on a resizing pad. Roll the cases and toss in a bowl/container. By the time you are done lubing all your cases the first ones will be free of alcohol.

There is a reason to use 99% though... less water in the mix and it will evap faster and cleaner.

As an additional note: I'm still using the same spray bottle I made up over three years ago or whenever I made that post. I have not made a new batch since then, that's how long it lasts.

 

[robertvarner]

I believe this sub-topic is a part of this thread, so I'll risk being 'mini-flamed' if I depart from the lube theme you have going here. :-D

My question is about two Lee Precision products that are offered for a Lee Classic Turret Press that I just purchased.

If you had a choice between a Pro Auto-Disk and an Auto Drum (both from Lee Precision), which would you choose to load 223 with a range of projectiles from 40g to 62g? I have read that the Pro Auto Disk is more accurate for precise/consistent bench loads, but the Auto Drum works better with larger powder volume loads in a 223 case (according to the Lee Load Data charts). I have also heard of people buying a second set of disks for the Pro Auto-Disk. Does this solve that problem by providing additional volume capability per charge?

I'm a Reloader-Newbie and am getting my arms wrapped around the complexities of this new hobby. I do love the details, though. :-D

Thanks.

 

[shibbershabber]

I believe this sub-topic is a part of this thread, so I'll risk being 'mini-flamed' if I depart from the lube theme you have going here. :-D

My question is about two Lee Precision products that are offered for a Lee Classic Turret Press that I just purchased.

If you had a choice between a Pro Auto-Disk and an Auto Drum (both from Lee Precision), which would you choose to load 223 with a range of projectiles from 40g to 62g? I have read that the Pro Auto Disk is more accurate for precise/consistent bench loads, but the Auto Drum works better with larger powder volume loads in a 223 case (according to the Lee Load Data charts). I have also heard of people buying a second set of disks for the Pro Auto-Disk. Does this solve that problem by providing additional volume capability per charge?

I'm a Reloader-Newbie and am getting my arms wrapped around the complexities of this new hobby. I do love the details, though. :-D

Thanks.

I do like the Auto-Disk... I have it on my Turret Press.... only loaded handgun rounds so far but will be loading some 223 and 30-06 hopefully this week... Ill post my results.

Im sure others here have experience with it as well.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I have loaded .223 with the Auto-Drum only but I use the Auto-disc for 300BLK though and I like the consistency so far.
I am not loading for benchrest shooting mind you but like the groups I'm getting so far.

 

[Member 5605]

I believe this sub-topic is a part of this thread, so I'll risk being 'mini-flamed' if I depart from the lube theme you have going here. :-D

My question is about two Lee Precision products that are offered for a Lee Classic Turret Press that I just purchased.

If you had a choice between a Pro Auto-Disk and an Auto Drum (both from Lee Precision), which would you choose to load 223 with a range of projectiles from 40g to 62g? I have read that the Pro Auto Disk is more accurate for precise/consistent bench loads, but the Auto Drum works better with larger powder volume loads in a 223 case (according to the Lee Load Data charts). I have also heard of people buying a second set of disks for the Pro Auto-Disk. Does this solve that problem by providing additional volume capability per charge?

I'm a Reloader-Newbie and am getting my arms wrapped around the complexities of this new hobby. I do love the details, though. :-D

Thanks.

I've heard the same. But... of the 8 or so Auto-Disc Pro's that I have they are all consistent. My highest powder charge is shy of 24 grains. I won't throw bulk much beyond that.

 

[robertvarner]

I'm going to stick with the Lee crowd on this question.

Is the sole purpose of the charging die (or as Lee calls it, the powder-through die) to elevate the powder measure high enough above the other dies to provide clearance? I have a short charging die from my 9mm die set placed in the turret.

I've stacked the riser on top of this die and then added the powder measure on both. It provides the necessary clearance, but should I be worried that this charging die is stamped "9mm" even though I am loading 223 rounds?

Sorry for the apparent run-on sentences, but my mind is in ramble-mode.

 

[shibbershabber]

The lee pistol sets have the "powder thru" expanding die... the powder dispenser attaches to the die so that it can expand the case mouth and dispense the powder in one shot.

No such die exists for rifles as rifle dies do not expand the mouth.

The "charging die" is specifically for use in the turret presses with the auto disk/drum dispensers so that you can charge the case in the same manner as you do in pistol cartridge loading... except in the rifle charging die's case, it ONLY dispenses powder.

There is also a separate piece they call a 'riser' while only serves to elevate the powder dispenser high so that it doesn't hit anything as the turret moves around, like the primer feed for example.

So, three different pieces.

The riser can be used with either the rifle charging die or the pistol powder-thru expanding die.


To your question... it should be fine... a 223 case is small enough that the expanding feature wont touch it... If it works and all your powder is dispensed correctly and consistently... you should be fine.

Hope that made sense... also in ramble mode tonight

 

[Member 5605]

This changes the story....


You can't use a 9mm charging die on a .223

The hole is too big in the center, powders gonna go everywhere.

Here is your expander:


Here is the inside of the expander with a .223 case:


See the rim? Powders gonna stack and fall out.

Not to mention the charging die will push on the shoulder like this:



You are asking for trouble.

The rifle charging dies have a '/ \' to accommodate different mouth sizes.

They are made for .22 cal up to .400" because the hole in the middle is .233" and the outside of your case is roughly .250". The case will NOT go into the hole, but if you jamb it up in there your case mouth will shrink causing powder to get stuck on the mouth of the case (ask me how I know).

The below is my actual .223 charging die. Notice how the brass marks on the top (bottom) show where the .223 cases hit all of the time? You can't funnel into a bottleneck rifle case, you have to use the inverse of a funnel or somewhere inside the die sticks of powder will logjam and make a mess.


So... 223 case on 9mm charging die: no
@robertvarner

 

[robertvarner]

Ok. That helps a lot! Thanks, all.

 

[Member 5605]

Ok. That helps a lot! Thanks, all.

I'm sure I say it for all that lurk this section: Anytime.

 

[robertvarner]

This changes the story....


You can't use a 9mm charging die on a .223

The hole is too big in the center, powders gonna go everywhere.

Here is your expander:
View attachment 545926

Here is the inside of the expander with a .223 case:
View attachment 545924

See the rim? Powders gonna stack and fall out.

Not to mention the charging die will push on the shoulder like this:
View attachment 545925


You are asking for trouble.

The rifle charging dies have a '/ \' to accommodate different mouth sizes.

They are made for .22 cal up to .400" because the hole in the middle is .233" and the outside of your case is roughly .250". The case will NOT go into the hole, but if you jamb it up in there your case mouth will shrink causing powder to get stuck on the mouth of the case (ask me how I know).

The below is my actual .223 charging die. Notice how the brass marks on the top (bottom) show where the .223 cases hit all of the time? You can't funnel into a bottleneck rifle case, you have to use the inverse of a funnel or somewhere inside the die sticks of powder will logjam and make a mess.
View attachment 545929

So... 223 case on 9mm charging die: no
@robertvarner

After a little bit of twitching and figurin', I wonder i I wil be okay using the 9mm charging die IF I remove the thread cap, o-ring, and 9mm expanding insert.

Then when looking through the powder-path, it looks to be easy-sleezy.


Once I attach the Lee powder riser that hits the shoulder of the case where it is supposed to...


All assembled then, the 223 case would not be hindered or the powder getting 'decked' inside the die and riser and under the powder outlet.


Since I am a newbie to the sport, do I have this correct then?

I went ahead and ordered the long charging die anyway, since I may need to reload my 7mm Mag in the future, so all is not lost, but I want to be sure I understand the process before I experience a powder-shower.

 

[11Charlie]

I experience a powder-shower.

Those suck!! Don't ask how I know!