Kirkland, WA - road rage ends in shootout, CPL holder against shooter with AK-47

[Geardo]

Really? That is now the international symbol for "Let's go!"?

I've honked my horn at other drivers when they drifted into my lane, and in other cases when they've put me at risk. Never got in a fight because of it. I've also had horns honked at me when I've done the same. It's what horns are for.

Someone cuts me off, I'll give 'em a gesture and ignore 'em afterwards. That's as far as I go. Never had a problem with it.

If we can't express displeasure with other's behavior without risking a life/death struggle, what's that say about our nation. Everyone is so touchy these days…

I have talked to a couple rough and tumble mechanical/electrical contractors in my previous job that said a middle finger from someone meant "we are going to pull over and fight" and they would follow people arpund and try to get them out of the vehicle to fight them if they were flipped off. They were pretty loco.

Its not the majority, but some people are just crazy.

 

[billdeserthills]

Fired a warning shot... at a guy charging him with a machete.

Seems to me the warning shot thing has sent some people to jail

 

[titsonritz]

This little freak was a timebomb waiting to go off.

I can only imagine the sob story he told his mother? Mom!! He shot at me first!!!

First off it was an SKS not an AK.

And this no doubt will give the anti's ammo to raise the age limit to 21yo and of course let's just ban assault weapons too.

That is what I saw too, but who knows the SKS could have been one of the other guns seized from the punk's bedroom. Regardless, he would never have had the opportunity to retrieve either I would have planted him when he charged me with the machete.

Ya'll missed the mark!!!

Lesson #ONE from this story is... Do not honk your GD horn at people unless you want a fight. Do NOT flip people off, or yell out the window, or wave a baseball bat or whatever. IMO it's best to take the approach of MOST martial arts trained people, and stay above the fray! Yes, you have the capability of defending yourself, but it's better not to need to.

Just sayin...

You point is valid but horns exist for a reason, I have avoided accidents via their use, which is intended to signal to a fellow driver, "I am here, watch out!" The problem lies, as everything else, with morons being morons abusing it and thinking it means, "F*** Y**, A**HOLE GET THE HELL OUT OUT OF MY WAY!!!"

 

[bbbass]

Really? That is now the international symbol for "Let's go!"?

I've honked my horn at other drivers when they drifted into my lane, and in other cases when they've put me at risk. Never got in a fight because of it. I've also had horns honked at me when I've done the same. It's what horns are for.

Someone cuts me off, I'll give 'em a gesture and ignore 'em afterwards. That's as far as I go. Never had a problem with it.

If we can't express displeasure with other's behavior without risking a life/death struggle, what's that say about our nation. Everyone is so touchy these days…

You know what I meant. No need for the sarcasm.

Whenever you honk a horn in anger (tends to be long honk, not a friendly wakeup) at someone's rude or stupid driving, or give them a one finger salute, in today's world you are taking a huge risk. Yes it does say something about our society, tho not our nation, and yep people are touchy.

Don't say I didn't warn you!!! If you EDC IMO you need to live to a higher standard. Just let it go by. An armed society is a polite society.

 

[bbbass]

You point is valid but horns exist for a reason, I have avoided accidents via their use, which is intended to signal to a fellow driver, "I am here, watch out!"

I would have thought that was implicit in my comment by saying "GD" horn. But ok ok ok ok.

Yes, I freely admit I have used my nice "friendly" horn to avoid an accident starting to happen. I've even had to blow it long and loud to get someone's attention. This is different and ya'll know it.

You REALLY thought I was saying to NEVER use your horn?

 

[Alexx1401]

This little freak was a timebomb waiting to go off.



That is what I saw too, but who knows the SKS could have been one of the other guns seized from the punk's bedroom. Regardless, he would never have had the opportunity to retrieve either I would have planted him when he charged me with the machete.



You point is valid but horns exist for a reason, I have avoided accidents via their use, which is intended to signal to a fellow driver, "I am here, watch out!" The problem lies, as everything else, with morons being morons abusing it and thinking it means, "F*** Y**, A**HOLE GET THE HELL OUT OUT OF MY WAY!!!"

While I "try" real hard not to use hand gestures the horn is made just for what many use it for, get attention. There is a reason they are required by law in many places. As for this shoot I would not believe what "news" says if they tell me it's going to be dark tonight. Who knows what the CC holder really did and why. The scum kid was the next mass shooter. To do what he did there just means he had not yet walked into some public gun free zone and open up. He needs to be in prison until he is too old to be a threat.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

No need for the sarcasm.

Clearly you forgot who you were talking to. My motto is "Sarcasm Is Life."

 

[bbbass]

LOL. And mine is "Sarcasm is Death".

 

[MrRob96]

I wonder what Mas Ayoob thinks about vehicle horn use preceding a DGU....

Maybe a new book topic.

 

[titsonritz]

I would have thought that was implicit in my comment by saying "GD" horn. But ok ok ok ok.

Yes, I freely admit I have used my nice "friendly" horn to avoid an accident starting to happen. I've even had to blow it long and loud to get someone's attention. This is different and ya'll know it.

You REALLY thought I was saying to NEVER use your horn?

No, I was thinking more along the lines of how morons screw up everything including a simple concept as using a horn on a motor vehicle.

 

[EPS]

Really? That is now the international symbol for "Let's go!"?

I've honked my horn at other drivers when they drifted into my lane, and in other cases when they've put me at risk. Never got in a fight because of it. I've also had horns honked at me when I've done the same. It's what horns are for.

Someone cuts me off, I'll give 'em a gesture and ignore 'em afterwards. That's as far as I go. Never had a problem with it.

If we can't express displeasure with other's behavior without risking a life/death struggle, what's that say about our nation. Everyone is so touchy these days…

I been driving a truck for a long time the roads are full of idiots 22 years DRIVEING A TRUCK .I don't honk my horn at anybody .lol unless I'm going to run them over and kill them .
Kinda like I could tell you but then I have to kill you .
By the way my warning shot is the one in your stomach .
The others are 2 to the chest one in the face

 

[EPS]

You might survive the warning shot .mmmm
With a colostomy bag .
But if you keep coming .
You won't survive the next three shots!

 

[CLT65]

Personally I kind of get the warning shot. Yes, I understand that pulling the trigger is lethal force, intentionally missing indicates a lack of imminent danger, and using lethal force if you're not in imminent danger is a very bad idea. I understand and agree that it's the wrong thing to do.

In this guy's circumstance, I can see why it probably seemed logical at the time. He was on the phone with 911, had a guy coming at him with a blade. In his vehicle he's not in immediate danger but he will be if the guy doesn't stop, and then he'll have to kill him. Not wanting to kill someone unless he absolutely had to, he pops one into the ground to illustrate the fact that he's ready to pull the trigger, while telling the 911 operator what he's doing and why. Taking a life is a very big deal, and I would certainly never be cavalier about pulling the trigger on another human being.

There are better ways of warning someone you are prepared to use deadly force if they don't stop, and again, I agree warning shots are a bad idea, but I'm not going to judge this guy for doing what he did.

 

[bbbass]

No, I was thinking more along the lines of how morons screw up everything including a simple concept as using a horn on a motor vehicle.

Or carrying a firearm.

 

[Geardo]

Personally I kind of get the warning shot. Yes, I understand that pulling the trigger is lethal force, intentionally missing indicates a lack of imminent danger, and using lethal force if you're not in imminent danger is a very bad idea. I understand and agree that it's the wrong thing to do.

In this guy's circumstance, I can see why it probably seemed logical at the time. He was on the phone with 911, had a guy coming at him with a blade. In his vehicle he's not in immediate danger but he will be if the guy doesn't stop, and then he'll have to kill him. Not wanting to kill someone unless he absolutely had to, he pops one into the ground to illustrate the fact that he's ready to pull the trigger, while telling the 911 operator what he's doing and why. Taking a life is a very big deal, and I would certainly never be cavalier about pulling the trigger on another human being.

There are better ways of warning someone you are prepared to use deadly force if they don't stop, and again, I agree warning shots are a bad idea, but I'm not going to judge this guy for doing what he did.

Yeah, unless one of us has been in a DGU as a civilian, we don't have room to judge this poor guy.

 

[CLT65]

I have hit the horn in anger or irritation before. It's really hard not to, when some inconsiderate jerk does something stupid. I've come to the conclusion, though, that it's so much smarter to bite your tongue and just let it go. If someone is going to do something stupid on the road, just stay out of their way.

Why? Because if they are willing to do something stupid and dangerous, they've already proven that their own safety is less important to them than yours is to you. They might also be on something or just freaking nuts. You're not going to "teach them a lesson", and you just might get hurt or seriously endangered in the process. One moment of anger can have lasting consequences. Calmly say to yourself "Is this worth risking my life over?" Take a deep breath, let it go, and stay out of their way.

 

[revjen45]

One of the salient points of a DGU is the shooter's state of mind - p*ssed off, scared, belligerent, etc. Was the shooter the aggressor? Did the shooter really believe in his/her heart of hearts that not shooting would result in being killed or maimed? If so, why did they fire a shot that wasn't actually meant to stop the immediate threat and constitutes disregard for the safety of others? If you had time to waste a shot you didn't perceive immediate existential peril.
Warning shots, shooting to wound, etc. can/will be used by the persecuting shyster to destroy the shooter's life. The DA is a lawyer and a politician with political motivations. Persecuting the shooter looks tough on crime and teaches the evil gun people a lesson.
I have been cussed at and flipped off, which did not cause me any injury. EDC means shining on things that offend you. Since I pack a piece any time I am out in public I predicate my conduct on the idea that I don't wish to enrage a maniac or do something that would initiate a DGU. If it's not serious enough to shoot but I have to ask somebody to step back I can push them back with my cane.

 

[11Charlie]

Late to the party but all I can say is WOW! So many things went wrong in this scenario. I can't even imagine what was running through his mind. All I know is that there would not have been a warning shot, PERIOD!

 

[RVNvet]

The one thing that is stressed in all LEO and CCW training is to be prepared mentally for as many shooting situations as possible. I'm a firm believer that there are some cases where a warning shot is appropriate, not the least of which is when you are hesitant about whether or not you can actually kill another human being. And regardless about how many Rambo fantasies you've mentally masturbated about, you won't know until the time comes and your body is full of adrenaline. So I suggest you mentally prepare yourself, and plan to fire into the GROUND OR FLOOR OR ROADWAY should the need for a warning shot arise. Firing into the air is safe ONLY if you fire straight up—a bullet falling back to earth WITHOUT A HORIZONTAL TRAJECTORY falls at only +- 150 fps and falls on its side, regardless of weight or shape (not enough to even break your skin), BUT at even at a slight angle maintains enough speed to be fatal.

And lay off honking the horn in anger and flipping people off. It's petty and childish and only asking for trouble.

 

[CLT65]

It's one thing to say "no warning shot for me, I'd just blow the sucker away", and another to actually be there and take a life. It just appeared to me that the guy was in a position where he didn't want to take a life but knew if he didn't warn the lunatic forcefully and immediately, he would imminently be in a position where he would have to kill him. I can agree and say that warning shots are a bad idea for all the reasons given, but I can't bring myself to say that this guy necessarily did the wrong thing in this instance.

Putting aside the crazy dude's return with a rifle (couldn't have predicted that), would he have been better to have just shot him?

Here's a hypothetical example of my point: let's say you're sitting on your front porch unable to get up quickly but happen to have a gun handy. A relative that you care about shows up, and for some reason he's completely out of his gourd. He charges across the yard swinging a samurai sword at you. You have about four seconds before your life is in serious danger and the only thing you have time to do is either shoot him dead or fire the first one into the lawn in hopes that the loud bang will put some fear into a crazed mind and stop the attack.

All legal issues aside, your only concerns in that moment are for your own life and that of this crazed relative that you still care about. Assuming you have a couple seconds for a safe warning shot, do you give that a try or just blow him away?

Again, I'm not saying warning shots are a good idea legally, but in certain specific circumstances I just can't condemn it.