Kirkland, WA - road rage ends in shootout, CPL holder against shooter with AK-47

[Geardo]

It's one thing to say "no warning shot for me, I'd just blow the sucker away", and another to actually be there and take a life. It just appeared to me that the guy was in a position where he didn't want to take a life but knew if he didn't warn the lunatic forcefully and immediately, he would imminently be in a position where he would have to kill him. I can agree and say that warning shots are a bad idea for all the reasons given, but I can't bring myself to say that this guy necessarily did the wrong thing in this instance.

Putting aside the crazy dude's return with a rifle (couldn't have predicted that), would he have been better to have just shot him?

Here's a hypothetical example of my point: let's say you're sitting on your front porch unable to get up quickly but happen to have a gun handy. A relative that you care about shows up, and for some reason he's completely out of his gourd. He charges across the yard swinging a samurai sword at you. You have about four seconds before your life is in serious danger and the only thing you have time to do is either shoot him dead or fire the first one into the lawn in hopes that the loud bang will put some fear into a crazed mind and stop the attack.

All legal issues aside, your only concerns in that moment are for your own life and that of this crazed relative that you still care about. Assuming you have a couple seconds for a safe warning shot, do you give that a try or just blow him away?

Again, I'm not saying warning shots are a good idea legally, but in certain specific circumstances I just can't condemn it.

..... What if your gun jams?

I think the most common issues usually had with semi autos is magazine related, either dirty, or not seated enough, etc. You are only really garenteed the one in the chamber.

I have tried a warning shot with a bear, and it didn't deflect it from its path.

 

[CLT65]

..... What if your gun jams?

I think the most common issues usually had with semi autos is magazine related, either dirty, or not seated enough, etc. You are only really garenteed the one in the chamber.

I have tried a warning shot with a bear, and it didn't deflect it from its path.

You are correct, that's a risk. I think a (safe) warning shot is a risk to yourself more than anything. I never said it was wise or the best thing to do, just that I could understand it in some circumstances. I can understand the hesitancy to take a life, even when legally justified. That hesitancy could get one killed, but I do understand it.

 

[Geardo]

You are correct, that's a risk. I think a (safe) warning shot is a risk to yourself more than anything. I never said it was wise or the best thing to do, just that I could understand it in some circumstances. I can understand the hesitancy to take a life, even when legally justified. That hesitancy could you killed, but I do understand it.

I agree with your assesment. Higher up in this thread I said we shouldn't really be judging this guy. I stand by that.

 

[Alexx1401]

<snip>

And lay off honking the horn in anger and flipping people off. It's petty and childish and only asking for trouble.

Well that makes the drive to the store and the commute to work pretty damn mundane. No horn? No showing them you think they are #1?

 

[Alexx1401]

..... What if your gun jams?

I think the most common issues usually had with semi autos is magazine related, either dirty, or not seated enough, etc. You are only really garenteed the one in the chamber.

I have tried a warning shot with a bear, and it didn't deflect it from its path.

If your gun jammed you were caring the WRONG gun to be depending on.
As for a Bear and some kook with a blade? Really? What if you get struck by lightning.

 

[Geardo]

If your gun jammed you were caring the WRONG gun to be depending on.
As for a Bear and some kook with a blade? Really? What if you get struck by lightning.

I just assume Murphy is an A-hole and always out to get me! Anything bad that can happen will happen.

 

[BillGabby1]

Really? That is now the international symbol for "Let's go!"?

I've honked my horn at other drivers when they drifted into my lane, and in other cases when they've put me at risk. Never got in a fight because of it. I've also had horns honked at me when I've done the same. It's what horns are for.

Someone cuts me off, I'll give 'em a gesture and ignore 'em afterwards. That's as far as I go. Never had a problem with it.

If we can't express displeasure with other's behavior without risking a life/death struggle, what's that say about our nation. Everyone is so touchy these days…

Times they be a changing we are getting too old for this chit.
You never know when you will encounter some self important jug head who will respond this way to your horn honking or 1 finger salute in a lethal manner. No sense of humor at all!
Be careful out there people, the one you could pizz off may be a complete nut job.
Gabby

 

[BillGabby1]

If your gun jammed you were caring the WRONG gun to be depending on.
As for a Bear and some kook with a blade? Really? What if you get struck by lightning.

Any gun can jam, they are after all man made machines and man is fallible so how can you expect perfection of a fallible creator?
Think about it.
Gabby

 

[titsonritz]

I have hit the horn in anger or irritation before. It's really hard not to, when some inconsiderate jerk does something stupid. I've come to the conclusion, though, that it's so much smarter to bite your tongue and just let it go. If someone is going to do something stupid on the road, just stay out of their way.

Why? Because if they are willing to do something stupid and dangerous, they've already proven that their own safety is less important to them than yours is to you. They might also be on something or just freaking nuts. You're not going to "teach them a lesson", and you just might get hurt or seriously endangered in the process. One moment of anger can have lasting consequences. Calmly say to yourself "Is this worth risking my life over?" Take a deep breath, let it go, and stay out of their way.

That's really what it boils down too, in general, kill them or move on.

 

[SUPER X]

How do you figure? A guy gets out of his car and charges me with a machete after I honked at him - I'm pretty sure I didn't justify that action. I think a warning shot is a bad idea, but that still doesn't automatically make the guy being attacked a bad guy.

I DOES IN A ANTI COURTROOM

 

[titsonritz]

Personally I kind of get the warning shot. Yes, I understand that pulling the trigger is lethal force, intentionally missing indicates a lack of imminent danger, and using lethal force if you're not in imminent danger is a very bad idea. I understand and agree that it's the wrong thing to do.

In this guy's circumstance, I can see why it probably seemed logical at the time. He was on the phone with 911, had a guy coming at him with a blade. In his vehicle he's not in immediate danger but he will be if the guy doesn't stop, and then he'll have to kill him. Not wanting to kill someone unless he absolutely had to, he pops one into the ground to illustrate the fact that he's ready to pull the trigger, while telling the 911 operator what he's doing and why. Taking a life is a very big deal, and I would certainly never be cavalier about pulling the trigger on another human being.

There are better ways of warning someone you are prepared to use deadly force if they don't stop, and again, I agree warning shots are a bad idea, but I'm not going to judge this guy for doing what he did.

Presentation is enough of a "warning shot" BTDTBTTS

 

[SUPER X]

Really? That is now the international symbol for "Let's go!"?

I've honked my horn at other drivers when they drifted into my lane, and in other cases when they've put me at risk. Never got in a fight because of it. I've also had horns honked at me when I've done the same. It's what horns are for.

Someone cuts me off, I'll give 'em a gesture and ignore 'em afterwards. That's as far as I go. Never had a problem with it.

If we can't express displeasure with other's behavior without risking a life/death struggle, what's that say about our nation. Everyone is so touchy these days…

The horn is a warning device required by law. Most use it like a keyboard now. I had someone back out and not see me and kept coming. I laid on it untill they stopped About a foot from my car.he was miffed at my honking .When in reality I saved him a lot of time & money . I would rather be honked at than fill
out a accident report and get hosed by my insurance company. It looks like alot of people intentionally cause accidents to collect insurance.

 

[BillGabby1]

Keep in mind people that it has been demonstrated that a gun carrying person can be killed by a knife carrying person from 21 feet away before they can take aim and shoot.
And I don't mean by throwing the knife either.
If you doubt it look it up for yourself.
Gabby

 

[SUPER X]

Sounds like (mommy he dissed me ) didnt fly at home..

 

[3MTA3]

Earlier there were posts wondering why the CPL holder didn't leave the scene after the rager left. Since the CPL holder was on the phone with 911 when he fired a warning shot they most likely required to wait at the scene for police to respond, take a statement, get evidence, etc..

I'm not going to criticize his actions of taking a warning shot because I wasn't there. I train to take the safety off as I sweep my pistol into firing position to the point where it's automatic. I'd be more likely to give him one second to face plant and wait for police and if he kept advancing I'd shoot once into center mass. If he turned and ran away you can't shoot as he's no longer considered a threat.

Lesson is be prepared for stupid to happen at any time, and stupid isn't always over when you think it is.

This incident is also why you need mags with more than ten rounds.

 

[billdeserthills]

Keep in mind people that it has been demonstrated that a gun carrying person can be killed by a knife carrying person from 21 feet away before they can take aim and shoot.
And I don't mean by throwing the knife either.
If you doubt it look it up for yourself.
Gabby

I believe this has resulted in hundreds of dead knife-carrying perps, by police

 

[BillGabby1]

BDH
I rather doubt it, I know you were just being funny!
Right?

 

[hongkong2]

Not to forget to mention , just where will that warning shot end up...?
Bullets can do weird things at times...why let one fly , when you don't have too...?
Andy

The Baldwin effect in action

 

[Xaevian]

The Baldwin effect in action

This was almost 4 years ago.

 

[solv3nt]

This was almost 4 years ago.

Bring out your dead!