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Key Learnings: Miami Shootout + 30
- Thread Starter RicInOR
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I think another great lesson in law enforcement was the West Hollywood shootout. Which resulted in most police depts adopting the AR15.
First of all, I feel OLD now! 30yrs is a long time, I've just had a moment of quiet contemplation for those brave agents.
The story of the shootout changed how I shot in the woods. I'm sure that you all remember that the armed robbers obtained most of they're weapons by murdering sport shooters out in the wilds! I started making sure that anyone rolling in to a place I was shooting at saw me place a high capacity rifle kind of pointed at they're side of down range.
No pointing anywhere near them, no menacing, not even unfriendly! Just, hi, I'm aware of you and this weapon has a big mag in it!
Never let people get behind me either.
The story of the shootout changed how I shot in the woods. I'm sure that you all remember that the armed robbers obtained most of they're weapons by murdering sport shooters out in the wilds! I started making sure that anyone rolling in to a place I was shooting at saw me place a high capacity rifle kind of pointed at they're side of down range.
No pointing anywhere near them, no menacing, not even unfriendly! Just, hi, I'm aware of you and this weapon has a big mag in it!
Never let people get behind me either.
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First of all, I feel OLD now! 30yrs is a long time, I've just had a moment of quiet contemplation for those brave agents.
The story of the shootout changed how I shot in the woods. I'm sure that you all remember that the armed robbers obtained most of they're weapons by murdering sport shooters out in the wilds! I started making sure that anyone rolling in to a place I was shooting at saw me place a high capacity rifle kind of pointed at they're side of down range.
No pointing anywhere near them, no menacing, not even unfriendly! Just, hi, I'm aware of you and this weapon has a big mag in it!
Situational awareness should never take a holiday.
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I remember seeing this in the news ... I would have never thought it was 30 years ago.
Seems a shame that events like these can be lost or nearly forgotten.
Not saying we need a yearly re-broadcast of the story , but stories like the OP's link help keep the men's memory alive. And maybe what we learned can save a life.
As for sport shooting in the woods , I agree you need to be watchful.
Seen too many shady characters out there , checking out me , my jeep , who and what I'm shooting with.
Are many of these folks , okay and just passing thru? Of course.
All the same I feel better by being aware and always having my rifle with me and either mag loaded and ready to have a round chambered or re-loaded and ready to prime if a muzzleloader...
Andy
Seems a shame that events like these can be lost or nearly forgotten.
Not saying we need a yearly re-broadcast of the story , but stories like the OP's link help keep the men's memory alive. And maybe what we learned can save a life.
As for sport shooting in the woods , I agree you need to be watchful.
Seen too many shady characters out there , checking out me , my jeep , who and what I'm shooting with.
Are many of these folks , okay and just passing thru? Of course.
All the same I feel better by being aware and always having my rifle with me and either mag loaded and ready to have a round chambered or re-loaded and ready to prime if a muzzleloader...
Andy
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It's not a bad idea to have a hidden backup gun even when wearing one on your belt and shooting a third or more.
Chances are that if a bunch of goons are gonna get the drop on you, they'll ease up close with some "golly, those are sure nice" line of friendly distracting crap, then do it faster than a round could be chambered or a cap applied to a rifle, or even to touch the rifle.
Once they think you're disarmed, they will relax some, and that's when opportunities will probably arise to correct their assumptions.
YMMV.
Chances are that if a bunch of goons are gonna get the drop on you, they'll ease up close with some "golly, those are sure nice" line of friendly distracting crap, then do it faster than a round could be chambered or a cap applied to a rifle, or even to touch the rifle.
Once they think you're disarmed, they will relax some, and that's when opportunities will probably arise to correct their assumptions.
YMMV.
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"RIfle with me" as in my hand even when checking targets etc ...
With practice one can work a bolt or throw a lever quickly even when moving.
Of course it is far faster to work a bolt while moving away from a threat than to cap or prime a rifle.
This I unfortunately know I can do and have had to do ...
Its a long story that involves being "frisky" in the woods and a at the time girlfriend who was "Less Than Truthful Regarding Her Other jealous Boyfriend"...
it turned out okay in the end , but no need to get into details on this forum. LOL
A concealed carry gun is always a excellent idea however.
Andy
With practice one can work a bolt or throw a lever quickly even when moving.
Of course it is far faster to work a bolt while moving away from a threat than to cap or prime a rifle.
This I unfortunately know I can do and have had to do ...
Its a long story that involves being "frisky" in the woods and a at the time girlfriend who was "Less Than Truthful Regarding Her Other jealous Boyfriend"...
it turned out okay in the end , but no need to get into details on this forum. LOL
A concealed carry gun is always a excellent idea however.
Andy
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First of all, I feel OLD now! 30yrs is a long time, I've just had a moment of quiet contemplation for those brave agents.
The story of the shootout changed how I shot in the woods. I'm sure that you all remember that the armed robbers obtained most of they're weapons by murdering sport shooters out in the wilds! I started making sure that anyone rolling in to a place I was shooting at saw me place a high capacity rifle kind of pointed at they're side of down range.
No pointing anywhere near them, no menacing, not even unfriendly! Just, hi, I'm aware of you and this weapon has a big mag in it!
That's why I don't shoot in the woods any longer. I got tired of being approached from behind over and over again. The last one, I was near Sunriver and my wife and I were shooting at an old gravel pit. We were actually just wrapping up and putting things away when a truck came up right behind us. Now, mind you, this is a big shooting area and there were any number of places they could have gone and safely shot, but they pulled up behind me - the only ones there. I put my eyes on them - making sure they could see that I see them and grabbed my AR while I told my wife to get in the truck. Once she was in, I moved over to my side, and as I was getting in, one of the guys got out of the passenger side and started to approach me - leaving two others in the truck. I didn't wait to 'chat' with him and just got the heck out of there. Driving by their rig, I didn't see any evidence of guns or targets - it was a regular cab pickup with 3 people, open bed, empty. I was seriously thinking they weren't there to target shoot.
I just get sick of that crap and the damn drunk idiots and the incredibly unsafe morons that do dumb sh!t like blowing up lawnmowers. While I miss shooting things like water jugs, I just really like that I can go and shoot at my range without worrying about a$$hats coming up behind me or doing unsafe, stupid stuff.
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Glad it ended well for you etrain.
I do think its mostly okay folks we meet with.
But yeah , way too many unsafe or unsavory folks out there at times.
Andy
I do think its mostly okay folks we meet with.
But yeah , way too many unsafe or unsavory folks out there at times.
Andy
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Safety in numbers.
Our spring break outing involved 12 of us so unless it involved a SWAT team I really wasn't worried.
Although I always have a minimum of 2 loaded weapons at all times.
Probably my most favorite feature of an AR pistol, the ability to carry it loaded with a permit in the car.
My wife does not like to go shooting in the boonies so that makes it easy for me to keep 2 range memberships.
Our spring break outing involved 12 of us so unless it involved a SWAT team I really wasn't worried.
Although I always have a minimum of 2 loaded weapons at all times.
Probably my most favorite feature of an AR pistol, the ability to carry it loaded with a permit in the car.
My wife does not like to go shooting in the boonies so that makes it easy for me to keep 2 range memberships.
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I never go shooting alone in the woods. No matter how bad i want to. Even with another I usually have an extra pistol loaded in a holster i'm not shooting all the time. And alwys keep a loaded AR mag in my pocket.
It's hard though. People do sneak up on you and it happens way too often. Maybe their eyeing your shooting spot maybe their eyeing you as a target. You never know.
Man I hate people.
It's hard though. People do sneak up on you and it happens way too often. Maybe their eyeing your shooting spot maybe their eyeing you as a target. You never know.
Man I hate people.
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Exactly. You can't go anywhere anymore and expect to be the only ones there. I go to the English Pit/CCGC If I'm going to shoot a rifle. It's closer and safer and I never run into any "Deliverance" types there.
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Aw c'mon. Inquiring minds wanna know! LOL.
I don't shoot in the woods any more either. I've always been situationally aware. The buffing the fighting rifle as people drove in was to make those people aware of ME!
"Welcome folks! I might be crazy"! No lever, bolt, operating rod, needed. Already done!
BTW, I almost always shot with a friend. Stay safe out there!
"Welcome folks! I might be crazy"! No lever, bolt, operating rod, needed. Already done!
BTW, I almost always shot with a friend. Stay safe out there!
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Mini-14, win
Revolver, lose (slow reloads)
Semi-auto pistol, better than revolver (quicker reloads)
Ammo penetration, has to go a foot
If you wear corrective glasses, wear a croakie. Additionally, practice your marksmanship without the glasses.
And there should have been something more about the 10mm and subsequent .40 discussion especially since the author touched on the subject of ammo penetration.
Revolver, lose (slow reloads)
Semi-auto pistol, better than revolver (quicker reloads)
Ammo penetration, has to go a foot
If you wear corrective glasses, wear a croakie. Additionally, practice your marksmanship without the glasses.
And there should have been something more about the 10mm and subsequent .40 discussion especially since the author touched on the subject of ammo penetration.
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