Waldo Oregon shootout, 1852 and the guns used

[CLT65]

I like the Colt revolvers better...but there is nothing wrong with Remington revolver.

I agree. Remington guns are nice, and have their advantages, but Colt guns just feel better. The balance, the way you cock the hammer, for me it just fits more naturally.

 

[Koda]

Since were here, more gunfighter history from Waldo Oregon. After the Triskitt gang massacre a gambler and gunfighter Ferd Patterson came to town to gamble and shot two in a dispute before surviving a gunfight with the sheriff and ran out of town. He was eventually gunned down later in Walla Walla Washington.

Soon after outlaw Bonnie Helm came to town and plotted to murder a local who ran him out of town via shotgun, he was later hanged by vigilantes in Montana.

Sailors’ Diggings, Oregon and the Triskitt Gang’s Lost Loot – Legends of America

The bustling miners' camp of Sailors’ Diggings, Oregon was visited by the murderous Triskett Gang, who were said to have left behind their stolen loot.

www.legendsofamerica.com

 

[Mark W.]

Interesting fact Waldo Hills is just above Silverton on the way to Sublimity. As is Waldo Grange and Waldo Cemetery.

 

[Cavedweller]

Interesting fact Waldo Hills is just above Silverton on the way to Sublimity. As is Waldo Grange and Waldo Cemetery.

Not the same Waldo.

 

[Member 38805]

Waldo, Or. was a mining town on the border with California. It was West of what is now I-5 in Josephine County.

As for the carrying safely thing, I doubt most men preparing to go into action would short themselves one shot for the sake of safety. Instead they'd load and cap all 6 cylinders, and lower the hammer between cylinders. An easy thing to do on old Colt SA percussion revolvers, and some models even had notches for the hammer to sit in between cylinders.
I'd be surprised if any bad guys or average men carried the dragoons. They were monstrously heavy revolvers, and even those who carried them didn't carry them on their person, but rather on their saddles in special holsters designed to hang in pairs over the pommels. More likely they carried the lighter 1851 Army or Navy 36, or the 1849 Pocket Revolvers in .36 caliber. Both much lighter, and cheaper. Maybe an older Paterson might be used, as by 1852 they'd be older, and maybe cheap by then? The Paterson was 1836 vintage.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Obviously I wasn't there, but a couple of differences between then and now jump out at me.
A mining town would be a rough community, composed of tougher citizens than most small towns today.
From that perspective, the gang may have been shooting everyone on sight under the assumption that it's one less pursuer down the road. Projection of force, and the willingness to use it makes sense when trying to intimidate a larger defending force. The word " Random " doesn't fit this story as well as the word " Wanton" . Wanton killing is how I would describe this incident.

Making off overloaded with gold is what got them killed ( the gang) . Showing that money was the motive. Once the single, senseless shooting occurred at the outset ,the gang went into basic survival mode. Grab everything of value and keep shooting while exiting the scene.
I watch way too many westerns, so my thoughts here may be skewed by cowboy/Hollywood writers.
If The leader of this gang shot his own wayward, drunken gunhand at the outset. They might have lived to rob again.

 

[Flopsweat]

Obviously I wasn't there, but a couple of differences between then and now jump out at me.
A mining town would be a rough community, composed of tougher citizens than most small towns today.
From that perspective, the gang may have been shooting everyone on sight under the assumption that it's one less pursuer down the road. Projection of force, and the willingness to use it makes sense when trying to intimidate a larger defending force. The word " Random " doesn't fit this story as well as the word " Wanton" . Wanton killing is how I would describe this incident.

Making off overloaded with gold is what got them killed ( the gang) . Showing that money was the motive. Once the single, senseless shooting occurred at the outset ,the gang went into basic survival mode. Grab everything of value and keep shooting while exiting the scene.
I watch way too many westerns, so my thoughts here may be skewed by cowboy/Hollywood writers.
If The leader of this gang shot his own wayward, drunken gunhand at the outset. They might have lived to rob again.

Maybe, but there were women and old people shot. It wasn't common for women and old people to join a posse. But I may be giving the bandits too much credit for good decision making.

I was thinking maybe they thought someone had recognized them and was going off to spread the word.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Maybe, but there were women and old people shot. It wasn't common for women and old people to join a posse. But I may be giving the bandits too much credit for good decision making.

I was thinking maybe they thought someone had recognized them and was going off to spread the word.

Shock and awe.

Shooting any movement.

Too drunk to think.

Idk

 

[Koda]

Agree closer with Flopsweat...
My guess is when they spent the day in the saloon drinking they formulated a (drunken) plan to rob the towns gold especially since most of the towns men were in the field mining left the town somewhat defenseless. Then they realized they would leave a witness trail for the California posse that was already hot on their tail so they wanted to kill all witnesses to their new crime.
Lots of bugs in that sinister logic but drunkeness and crime isn't logical in the first place.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Something to consider when studying the past....

Folks often thought and acted differently than we do now....So trying to figure out the "Why" of some actions , may , at times , not be easily done.
Also , it is wise to not compare what it known or commonly held as wisdom or the like to people or actions from the past...as it can do them and history a disservice.
( Please note that I am not saying that this is happening here...just posting the above as something to consider )
Andy

 

[The Heretic]

Its not so much that you can't...
It just wasn't done back in the day....Clint Eastwood and his Remington New Model Army from Pale Rider , just ain't real life....

That said...
It is easier to swap cylinders on a Remington revolver than a Colt...due to the Remington top strap frame and cylinder pin vs. the Colt "open top" style and wedge pin system.
Again....for more shots ....one carried a extra revolver in the 19th century...not extra cylinders.

I like the Colt revolvers better...but there is nothing wrong with Remington revolver.
Andy

Just like some people carry a backup pistol today - it is sometimes faster to go to a second handgun than it is to drop the mag and reload, or if you have a jam.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

I'd be surprised if any bad guys or average men carried the dragoons. They were monstrously heavy revolvers, and even those who carried them didn't carry them on their person, but rather on their saddles in special holsters designed to hang in pairs over the pommels. More likely they carried the lighter 1851 Army or Navy 36, or the 1849 Pocket Revolvers in .36 caliber. Both much lighter, and cheaper. Maybe an older Paterson might be used, as by 1852 they'd be older, and maybe cheap by then? The Paterson was 1836 vintage.

The picture in question is of Rip Ford. A copy was offered September 2013 by Heritage with the following description
"[Texas Rangers]. John S. "Rip" Ford Half-Plate Ambrotype, circa 1858. Approximately 3.5" x 4.75" (case is 4.75" x 6"). With hand-tinted rose to the cheeks and light blue to the pants, this portrait features the legendary Texas Ranger at the apex of his career, likely May 1858, near the time of the Antelope Hills Campaign. Ford's fringed buckskin coat, gauntlets, and flap revolver holsters appear well worn. In his right hand he holds a flat-brimmed, high-crowned hat. The holstered revolvers appear to be a Colt Dragoon and a Colt Walker, which weighed almost ten pounds together.

 

[Member 38805]

View attachment 1083317



The picture in question is of Rip Ford. A copy was offered September 2013 by Heritage with the following description
"[Texas Rangers]. John S. "Rip" Ford Half-Plate Ambrotype, circa 1858. Approximately 3.5" x 4.75" (case is 4.75" x 6"). With hand-tinted rose to the cheeks and light blue to the pants, this portrait features the legendary Texas Ranger at the apex of his career, likely May 1858, near the time of the Antelope Hills Campaign. Ford's fringed buckskin coat, gauntlets, and flap revolver holsters appear well worn. In his right hand he holds a flat-brimmed, high-crowned hat. The holstered revolvers appear to be a Colt Dragoon and a Colt Walker, which weighed almost ten pounds together.

I doubt he walked around with a Walker and a Dragoon on his hip all the time. Pictures like these were usually staged, and don't represent reality. There are numerous reports that the Texas Rangers were fitted with pommel mounted holsters for their pair of Walker Colts. And pictures of the same also.

 

[Jay Walk]

Were those single actions firing on their own back then?

 

[Member 38805]

Were those single actions firing on their own back then?

In the wrong hands they always did.