It's coming...

[Just Jim]

Sorry guys but it ain't "comming". It really hit a few years back and you just didn't know it happened. What you are seeing now is the death throes of America. China has bought us lock stock and barrel just like we bought the world after WWI.

Your government sold us all down the debt hole and it won't be long before your real slavery starts. They are about to use an incident to raise taxes big time because Obama just raised the debt again. It was said today that you would have to come up with 65 million a day for 158 years just to pay Obamas latest debt.

Thanks all you guys that voted us into this.

jj

 

[Decker]

Sorry guys but it ain't "comming". It really hit a few years back and you just didn't know it happened. What you are seeing now is the death throes of America. China has bought us lock stock and barrel just like we bought the world after WWI.

Your government sold us all down the debt hole and it won't be long before your real slavery starts. They are about to use an incident to raise taxes big time because Obama just raised the debt again. It was said today that you would have to come up with 65 million a day for 158 years just to pay Obamas latest debt.

Thanks all you guys that voted us into this.

jj

It is a sad day for my unborn grand kids. At least I can say that I didn't vote for this...

-D

 

[PMKN_PI]

But aside from stocking up on dry goods, how can you prepare for devaluation of the dollar and massive inflation?

 

[Just Jim]

That safe looks like a tupperware party LOL

jj

 

[matt_w]

He needs to sell off a few of those handguns and use the space for ammo!

 

[Andy]

Interesting video (article) on China and gold.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/800.html

Andy

P.S. Alder Gold downtown is a great place to get your gold and silver!

 

[bugeye]

Amazing, so you didn't vote for Obama who has been in office for only a year, and who's first budget only started only 4.5 months ago on Sept 20 or 2009, so you are not responsible for the national debt, did you do the fiscal calculations using irrational numbers?

 

[Andy]

Amazing, so you didn't vote for Obama who has been in office for only a year, and who's first budget only started only 4.5 months ago on Sept 20 or 2009, so you are not responsible for the national debt, did you do the fiscal calculations using irrational numbers?

Please use the "quote" feature if you are responding to someone specific.

At first I thought you were replying to me (since I was the last to post), which made no sense at all.

 

[Just Jim]

Originally Posted by bugeye
Amazing, so you didn't vote for Obama who has been in office for only a year, and who's first budget only started only 4.5 months ago on Sept 20 or 2009, so you are not responsible for the national debt, did you do the fiscal calculations using irrational numbers?


Did you forget Obama was a Senator and while he was a Senator he voted yes for all of the Bush spending that you have complained about? It's selective in the way guys like you want to recall things. Why I have you on ignor. You will never see the real picture from your little world.

jj

 

[chemist]

I'm proud that the level of discourse on this thread has held up to a reasonable standard so far, despite some with partisan axes to grind who are attempting to re-frame this global crisis as political in nature.

Most here seem to get it: It's the corrupt, crony-capitalist, non-representative governments of the world - not just here in the US - that have bled the global economy for fun and profit. And now there's nothing left to pillage, and no one left to squeeze.

Total leverage is at least 30:1, although as others have pointed out here, the CDS market is a gigantic and potentially insurmountable burden. No one knows about the real derivatives exposure, but this much is certain: AT LEAST 29 out of every 30 claims on each dollar of assets or productive capacity will be EXTINGUISHED in this global unwinding, this deflationary death-spiral, this debt-bomb detonation. Only after all that bad debt is expunged from the books can we start anew.

Except that it can't be expunged, and it won't be. The hit that everybody takes during a deflationary depression is just too severe to face voluntarily. Everybody loses, rich and poor, so nobody who faces re-election would dream of trying to sell that to the electorate. All that we can expect from governments is more extend-and-pretend.

So what to do? We can't be self-sufficient, but we can all surely become more self-reliant. There's a great book about a Depression-era family called "We Had Everything But Money." The blogs like ferfal's are great, too. If you want to read about the economy, I recommend The Automatic Earth. Energy issues are well-covered on The Oil Drum. And for current events I scan the From The Wilderness blog.

So get out of debt, get your assets out of derivatives like paper gold, and connect with your neighbors. That's my advice.

 

[enjr4]

I think most of us get it. Just from different places in the same room. But, until local control of government is reclaimed we are all just peeing in the wind.

Want to fix it. Raise organized heck about our election laws. States control all elections, etc., within their respective borders. So........... stop the BS.

Work to pass laws that make it illegal for any politician to take money from any individual that cannot vote for them. A company, corporation, etc. cannot vote, so cannot contribute. A person in Seattle cannot work for the election of a person in Renton. A person in King County can't vote for a candidate in Clark County, therefore, cannot campaign for them. A person in Washington can't vote in California, so they can not contribute to the election of a Californian. Washington election laws are made in Washington, not Washington DC. We do control the election of everyone but the US President and their Vice. It will work and it will catch on state by state like wildfire. That would change Washington DC.
That’s my position and I like it.
Ed

 

[Wheeler44]

Work to pass laws that make it illegal for any politician to take money from any individual that cannot vote for them. A company, corporation, etc. cannot vote, so cannot contribute. A person in Seattle cannot work for the election of a person in Renton. A person in King County can't vote for a candidate in Clark County, therefore, cannot campaign for them. A person in Washington can't vote in California, so they can not contribute to the election of a Californian. Washington election laws are made in Washington, not Washington DC. We do control the election of everyone but the US President and their Vice. It will work and it will catch on state by state like wildfire. That would change Washington DC.
That's my position and I like it.

Awww...You just went and ruined this thread with a common sense solution.....What didja go an' do that for????

 

[bugeye]

Originally Posted by bugeye
Amazing, so you didn't vote for Obama who has been in office for only a year, and who's first budget only started only 4.5 months ago on Sept 20 or 2009, so you are not responsible for the national debt, did you do the fiscal calculations using irrational numbers?


Did you forget Obama was a Senator and while he was a Senator he voted yes for all of the Bush spending that you have complained about? It's selective in the way guys like you want to recall things. Why I have you on ignor. You will never see the real picture from your little world.

jj

Oh, so now your not responsible for the deficit, because you didn't vote for Obama, when you couldn't have voted for Obama, when he was potentially 1/685th responsible as a member of congress, when Bush, who I guess you didn't vote for either, was on his spending spree. I hate to admitt this, but for you, this is one of your more reasonable arguments.

 

[unionguy]

I think most of us get it. Just from different places in the same room. But, until local control of government is reclaimed we are all just peeing in the wind.

Want to fix it. Raise organized heck about our election laws. States control all elections, etc., within their respective borders. So........... stop the BS.

Work to pass laws that make it illegal for any politician to take money from any individual that cannot vote for them. A company, corporation, etc. cannot vote, so cannot contribute. A person in Seattle cannot work for the election of a person in Renton. A person in King County can't vote for a candidate in Clark County, therefore, cannot campaign for them. A person in Washington can't vote in California, so they can not contribute to the election of a Californian. Washington election laws are made in Washington, not Washington DC. We do control the election of everyone but the US President and their Vice. It will work and it will catch on state by state like wildfire. That would change Washington DC.
That’s my position and I like it.
Ed

Makes total sense!

 

[Silver Fox]

So get out of debt, get your assets out of derivatives like paper gold, and connect with your neighbors. That's my advice.

Good advice.

SF-

 

[bugeye]

I think most of us get it. Just from different places in the same room. But, until local control of government is reclaimed we are all just peeing in the wind.

Want to fix it. Raise organized heck about our election laws. States control all elections, etc., within their respective borders. So........... stop the BS.

Work to pass laws that make it illegal for any politician to take money from any individual that cannot vote for them. A company, corporation, etc. cannot vote, so cannot contribute. A person in Seattle cannot work for the election of a person in Renton. A person in King County can't vote for a candidate in Clark County, therefore, cannot campaign for them. A person in Washington can't vote in California, so they can not contribute to the election of a Californian. Washington election laws are made in Washington, not Washington DC. We do control the election of everyone but the US President and their Vice. It will work and it will catch on state by state like wildfire. That would change Washington DC.
That’s my position and I like it.
Ed

Good idea, you had better vote for Presidents who have the common sense not to put supreme court justices into office who would do such things as give corporations the power to legally, directly manipulate elections and candidates with their vast power. That is 5 Republican nominess including two by the last Bush, who have decided that America is a country for the money, and by the money, and even the supreme court is for sale.

Three Democratic appointees, including one by Obama, voted to keep campaign finance reform operating along with presidents Ford's 'turncoat' Republican Noninee, Stevens.

Since five members of the supreme court (handpicked right wing activist judges who believe that justice is nothing more than the interests of the stronger party) ruled that corporations have the rights of individuals to participate freely in the political process, and that government has no rights to limit their participation on as flimsy a basis as they fact that they are not living, the only path to limit the increase in corruption (yeah as if the 60 million shoved at the senate by the health care insurance industry through lobbys wasn't enough?) is to write so many red tape rules that must be done before a corp can participate that they will always be two steps behind. These rules can be enacted on the bogus basis that they seek to protect stockholders and financers from foolheardy political actions by heads of corporations.

 

[Arkarayne]

So get out of debt, get your assets out of derivatives like paper gold, and connect with your neighbors. That's my advice.

Good advice.

SF-

I agree. Get in the black (or at least close to it.) get solid assets, no paper or electronic assets. and tell your neighbors.

------
Sidenote: why not take all that lobbyist money and start paying for stuff with it, instead of weighing down thousand-dollar suits?

 

[Just Jim]

I'm proud that the level of discourse on this thread has held up to a reasonable standard so far, despite some with partisan axes to grind who are attempting to re-frame this global crisis as political in nature.

Most here seem to get it: It's the corrupt, crony-capitalist, non-representative governments of the world - not just here in the US - that have bled the global economy for fun and profit. And now there's nothing left to pillage, and no one left to squeeze.

Total leverage is at least 30:1, although as others have pointed out here, the CDS market is a gigantic and potentially insurmountable burden. No one knows about the real derivatives exposure, but this much is certain: AT LEAST 29 out of every 30 claims on each dollar of assets or productive capacity will be EXTINGUISHED in this global unwinding, this deflationary death-spiral, this debt-bomb detonation. Only after all that bad debt is expunged from the books can we start anew.

Except that it can't be expunged, and it won't be. The hit that everybody takes during a deflationary depression is just too severe to face voluntarily. Everybody loses, rich and poor, so nobody who faces re-election would dream of trying to sell that to the electorate. All that we can expect from governments is more extend-and-pretend.

So what to do? We can't be self-sufficient, but we can all surely become more self-reliant. There's a great book about a Depression-era family called "We Had Everything But Money." The blogs like ferfal's are great, too. If you want to read about the economy, I recommend The Automatic Earth. Energy issues are well-covered on The Oil Drum. And for current events I scan the From The Wilderness blog.

So get out of debt, get your assets out of derivatives like paper gold, and connect with your neighbors. That's my advice.

To solve a problem you must know where it came from. You mistake capitalism with government. Government is the problem as they have the power over how capitalism is controled. We have never had real capitalism in this country just growth in government due to the destruction of our chance to build private wealth.

I work for a private contractor. He pays me for my work, the government takes from me my wealth. Yet government has used the tool of turning you against your employer by saying he isn't giving you enough. Government is the real enemy, who pays you and who takes from you???

If you follow history it's government that has murdered milions of it's citizens all over the world. In particular socialist governments are the worst. If you really want good government then it must be small and unintrusive. The debts we have now are because we let government get too big.

You want real good government then throw out all the progressivesin both parties.

jj

 

[OcelotZ3]

Government is the problem as they have the power over how capitalism is controled.

The investment/banking collapse occurred *because* "government" removed the controls/limits that had been put in place, restraining them from doing stupid things.

Some people haven't been paying attention...

 

[Gunner3456]

The investment/banking collapse is/was so complex as to not be easily put into a box. There was the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) and pressure from congress for Freddie/Fannie to make stupid loans. There were greedy people everywhere making fortunes by pretending that they were good loans and packaging and selling them. It was a classic Ponzi scheme.

There have always been laws against fraud. Ask Bernie Madoff. Nobody within government or Wall Street got nailed for it though.

At the root of our current crash is the housing bubble and then crash, and the fallout from the "investments" that were made in "loans." At the root of that is the CRA.

We could go on and on but yes we need laws against crime but that doesn't mean that capitalism isn't still the only system which has ever worked.

Even a simple game of checkers played for match sticks won't work if people cheat or don't follow the rules. That doesn't mean there's something wrong with checkers. It means that crooks can ruin even a good thing.