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Can we at least not rewrite history here guys? Both Democrats and Republicans since Reagan have done massive deficit spending...that's what's got us into this mess. Look up the numbers.

We should go back to a Citizen's Army and save dramatically on defense...defend our nation, instead of Exxon's oil interests in the Middle East. Just one way to save a lot of money that isn't ever talked about.

And how about a plan to bring back manufacturing jobs to America? You oughta ask yourself why it barely gets talked about by Republicans or Democrats.

Let's move beyond this "conservative" and "liberal" non-sense and talk to each other again. "Free Trade" is a perfect example. It started out as a 'conservative' idea...but now, most Demorats endorse it as well. And, we've been doing for over 30 years...how's it working out for you?


So how much did your union contribute to the Obama campaign?

jj
 
Normally I pretty much agree with you gunner but to me you are wrong about pointing fingers. To put simple my thinking if you have a medical problem and you just treat the symptoms and not the cause the problem won't go away.

Progressives are in both parties and have done this to our country. If they are not thrown out they will continue. We have a choice now of elective surgery to remove this progressive cancer or later radical surgery where the patient may die. You must know where the cancer came from to cure it. The progressives in both parties are killing America with debt.

How are you going to fix anything without knowing who did it and rooting them out from doing worse?

jj

It's not going to get fixed. We've tipped over the edge. Are you prepared?
 
Both parties are to blame. They both have slightly different agenda, but many of the longer term goals are the same. Aggregate power to themselves and their friends. The 2 parties do us no justice because they frame the issues too narrowly. Like "single payer" or "no single payer" health care system. Neither one wants to address the fact that government has caused a lot of the health care cost issues by excessive meddling.

I would argue that the powers that be in both parties either (a) actively want to destroy our currency, set up global schemes (IMF, some sort of global carbon trading, etc) that are removed from voters & chip away at sovereignty, etc, or (b) aren't aware of what is going on, and simply think they can spend forever with no consequences. Further, democracy perverted by the desire of the masses to take from those who have more (prop 66 / 67 anyone?). Thus, the sheep voters & politicians have a hold on this country. The constitution was meant to protect individual rights, but even that has been chipped away.

I would argue that we're a LONG way from a free market society. How do we trade? Via Federal Reserve Notes that are printed by a quasi-governmental body. Government similarly sells bonds to that body whenever they need "money". By controlling our currency, the elite control a large swath of society, thus making it not as free a market as we would like to think.

What to do about it?
- Educate yourself via blogs, books, etc. Lots of good advice on this board. I recommend dailybell.com & books such as "End the Fed" and "Creature from Jeckyl Island".
- Tell others about it. I admit it's tough to understand what is going on, let alone explain it well enough that others see the man behind the curtain, but start at home.
- Prepare yourself and your family for what may happen. Lots of info on this board about that.
- Defend individual rights; speak to your representatives. Politicians still listen (somewhat) to voters. If enough speak up, they have a hard time dismissing us as fringe.
- Keep a BRIGHT view of the future. I'm optimistic that we can return to a land of individual rights and free market. When we do, we ALL will gain a bunch of freedom, prosperity, and improved overall quality of life.

That's my two cents, if it's worth it.
 
jj, you don't get it. This isn't about assigning blame. It's too late. Our impending obligations are unmanageable regardless of whose fault it is. Are you prepared? :(


It's never to late to hold people accountable for their actions and make an example for others to learn by.

You don't know me but you can trust me when I say I am better off than most because of haveing no debt and seeing this comming for some time.

jj
 
The country was built on constitutional law and order. You must apply the laws to bring back the order. The guilty must be punished for ruining our economy. You can't set free those who have caused so much ruin. Why try to rebuild if the same people are in power?

jj
 
Some of us are not so well off. I for one live smack dead in the middle of Portland. And if and when the SHTF, my family and I will be in a pickle. My family is closer to the poverty line level, but we are doing what we can to prepare for this countries possible doom. Many different countries have had great power in the past and have lost it. The Romans, Genghis Khan , Adolf Hitler… and the list can go on. Is it America’s time to fall? Maybe...Looks like it to me. There seems to be way too many people trying to run this country for there own personal good and keep it that way. And they are not going to stop until they are made to. They have the money and the power to keep it going until they themselves destroy it. It seems to me anyways. My family and I want to relocate to a smaller town ASAP! I hope we can work it out before it’s too late. My finances are dwindling as I have been unemployed for 7 months now. I can’t imagine how hard it will be if this counties finical infrastructure collapses. Times are coming that could get really really bad! How much worse will the greedy and powerful of this country let it get. They don’t care for me and my family and the millions of us Americans who are just like me. God help us!!
 
I think pretty much all of us here agree that the economy is only gonna get worse, where we differ is when it comes to what will happen. My view is that it's going to be driven into the ground and then our rights and the Constitution will be suspended in order "to secure the nation and protect us". That's always the way fascism works. Throw in another major terrorist attack like 9/11 that the government may very well "be unable to prevent" and it gives them more power and authority with most sheeple out there.

This is my biggest fear, that our country is headed toward fascism, regardless of the party in power. When I see the discussions happening here I get a little optimistic, but then I remember that we on this board are in the minority.
 
USMC0311,

I agree with you regarding fascism. I don't think any party is better than the other. They're both advancing a globalist agenda backed by people more powerful than those that are in government. Even though we are a minority, it is encouraging to see some intelligent discussions by people who aren't sucked into the "my political party is best and your guy sucked" quagmire.
 
Fascism, when defined as a cooperation between a government and corporations has arrived IMHO. Sure they may yell on the news and call each other names for the sound bites we are all exposed to over and over. But behind closed doors the money flows back and forth. Look at the AIG backroom deals that are now coming to light.

I was raised to judge a persons results never their words. If I use that standard to judge the government, Fascism is here.
 
Also our system of electing officials is broken. Nothing will ever change in Washington until we change our political system. We can't have candidates raising nearly a billion dollars in a campaign because that equals a billion promises to those with the money. I believe we can still come out of this but we need to scrap this system and form one that keeps the politicians from being paid for by the time they get into office.
 
It's not going to get fixed. We've tipped over the edge. Are you prepared?

I get Gunner's point. The ball started rolling in 2000. The Matrix wasn't too far off when it described 1999 as "The peak of your civilization."

For all intents and purposes. The S has H T F... it just took a decade to get to the ceiling. Get prepared while it's still "easy" to do so.

-------
Yes, there's blame, excuses, fingers to point, and people to fire... but that's all moot now.
Now, as far as pulling a full court shot/hail mary/grand-slam and getting out of this mess, Anything's Possible. But, since we have an obvious SHTF situation in all our faces (and that's what this is, can't sugar-coat it), we know what to get ready for, as far as immediate threat.

Get. Ready. Today.

My 2 cents... or, 2 grams of copper.
 
jj, you don't get it. This isn't about assigning blame. It's too late. Our impending obligations are unmanageable regardless of whose fault it is. :(

I agree 100% with this statement. At this point, the Administration is just trying to manage the debt levels until some default (or continued slow debasement of $ or ????) happens. Trying to assign blame at this point is moot.
 
I agree 100% with this statement. At this point, the Administration is just trying to manage the debt levels until some default (or continued slow debasement of $ or ????) happens. Trying to assign blame at this point is moot.

But they are still spending at record rates. It isn't their money it is ours and our kids. They did this to us and all you seem to say is bend over and take it:s0112::s0112: People should be in jail now for what has happened and the rest thrown out of office and tar and feathered.:s0155: Do you think they would have done this too us for life imprisonment?

jj
 
It isn't their money it is ours and our kids. They did this to us and all you seem to say is bend over and take it

On FDR's third day in office in 1993, the US signed an executive order to prohibit the holding of gold bullion by US citizens, a felony to no follow this law.

Also, read this again from the beginning of this post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2441342/posts

In 1933, The Gold Reserve Act was passed by Congress and formalized into law the breaking of the gold standard. This law provided for a controlled-currency issue through the Federal Reserve System which was non-redeemable in gold. Although the link to anything tangible had been broken, the citizens had little choice but to continue using these non-redeemable dollars as a medium of exchange. The currency had already been broadly accepted, proven convenient and a perception of safety had already become entrenched.

"ours and our kids" real money (this is the point of my response) was taken away long ago. Fiat money only has value to the extent people have faith/perception of its value. Gold and other PM's have been that store of wealth for over 5,000 years.

The US government has to keep this ponzi scheme going as long as it can.

Please try and understand this, in 1964 you could buy a gallon of gas for around .25 cents (give or take). If you paid for that gas with a 1964 quarter, you would have paid with a 90% silver quarter. Guess what......... today that 1964 quarter is worth what on the open market????? around $3 dollars (give or take). What is the current price of a gallon of gas right now (round $3 dollars (give or take)?

So, does it make since that your money has been taken away by the debasement of the US dollar through dollar deflation? It is hidden from you by what you call inflation, but that is not true. Oil has not decoupled from the price of gold/silver, only the value of US fiat dollar has gone down.

And finally, you money was taken away long time ago. Please read the history of the Roman Empire monetary system and compare the debasement of the Roman monetary system to what is happended to the US over the 80 years. I have not bent over and taken anything, on the contrary, I try to learn more and more about history, the monetary system and where we are headed everyday.
 
Go look up what's happened to the wealthiest 1% of Americans for the past 20 years. Their income has skyrocketed. Just Google it. The bottom 90% of Americans have seen their incomes stagnate.

Our economy and our government work very, very well for those 1% at the top. Go ahead and call me a "class warfare" person or whatever, it won't change those facts. It just doesn't work for your average person.

I, for one, don't believe our elite is somehow smarter, better, or working harder than the top 1% in our country's first 200 years...so, I don't believe they deserve to receive most of the gains from our economy.

In fact, our elite (who are both Democrats and Republicans) have crashed our economy with their legalized gambling.
 
Normally I pretty much agree with you gunner but to me you are wrong about pointing fingers. To put simple my thinking if you have a medical problem and you just treat the symptoms and not the cause the problem won't go away.

Progressives are in both parties and have done this to our country. If they are not thrown out they will continue. We have a choice now of elective surgery to remove this progressive cancer or later radical surgery where the patient may die. You must know where the cancer came from to cure it. The progressives in both parties are killing America with debt.

How are you going to fix anything without knowing who did it and rooting them out from doing worse?

jj

I suspect JJ is the sort of Fellow they pick out of an audience during a Vegas show. The performer whispers a few words: "progressive, commie, maoist, and until I snap my fingers you will be chicken".
 
On FDR's third day in office in 1993, the US signed an executive order to prohibit the holding of gold bullion by US citizens, a felony to no follow this law.....
.

Every major economy in the world that was on the gold standard left it during the great depression. You do know that when they get fusion power going they will be able to make perfect gold, perfect on the atomic level, and make it out of hydrogen, don't you? Fusion power = alchemy, and cheap power too, and enough to get us to the stars.
 

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