It's coming...

[Gunner3456]

How about this chart, and it's old - 2008 - the latest I could find. It's not just the deficit which exists as a result of it, it's the unavoidable near-term acceleration of some of these expenses.

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Look at the interest amount on the debt - already sizable. That number is bound to soon be much larger. First, we are borrowing money like crazy and second, interest rates are at an all time low. When the Fed has to raise interest rates to combat the coming inflation, this number could quadruple or more over night. Right now we are paying next to nothing in interest - less than 1/2 % on short term borrowing at the Fed window. What if it goes to 5%, and it will - it has to? That's a ten-fold increase, and all other rates will adjust accordingly.

Or, what if we simply have to start paying more interest because China et al are nervous about our debt and want a higher return for the risk?

We are facing the dual whammy of having much more debt to pay interest on in a climate of rising rates which is soon to come. That doesn't even address the quaint idea of ever trying to pay anything on the principle.

What will happen to that portion of the pie?

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Next, look at Social Security and Medicare. They are really big pieces of the pie. NEXT YEAR the first of the baby boomers will turn 65, and every year after that, more and more. It's obvious what the inevitable is right there. As they retire these costs will skyrocket but tax receipts will drop as they stop producing. None of the money for social security has been saved - it's all been dumped into the general fund and spent. We aren't decades away from a crisis. It's this decade.

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The deficit is already massive, and borrowing is a line going straight up. Where is there any room for:

1. Cutting money from Medicare to help fund Obamacare? and

2. Adding any additional spending beyond that for socialized health care?

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The people in our congress and Obama are completely crazy and we're screwed. We can't recover from this.

Be realistic here please and be prepared. This is unsustainable.

Read More

 

[Just Jim]

Gunner here is what this may lead to

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2441342/posts


As allways the question is "what happens next?"

jj

 

[Just Jim]

My own point of view is all this debt is the progressives strategy to destroy our constitution and take power over us. Look at how Oregon voters sold their sole for job protection. When the economy goes the people will give up all their freedoms out of fear.

They are allready setting up the banks for a global currency.

jj

 

[usmc0311]

My own point of view is all this debt is the progressives strategy to destroy our constitution and take power over us. Look at how Oregon voters sold their sole for job protection. When the economy goes the people will give up all their freedoms out of fear.

They are allready setting up the banks for a global currency.

jj

Ha! That's a good one! Thanks for making me laugh!

You do realize that Bush is the one that signed off on the $700B Wall Street Bailout, right? And in Bush's last year in office he raised the national debt over 1 trillion dollars! Try thinking in less partisan terms... I agree that this is a major problem, but it's not a Republican or Democrat problem. Rather, BOTH of the parties are the problem. They both spend like crazy and it's gonna screw us in the end.

I gotta say though, and I see it a lot on this board, too many are consumed with labeling things as progressive/liberal or conservative. Most conservatives in government work toward the same end goals as liberals, they just don't push it as quickly or blatantly...

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Just Jim]

I didn't like Bush and Obama is worse however both parties are full of progressives and that's why our economy has tanked. It is a planned event. If you study the history of progressives you will realize why America is suffering and who these people are. I have no political side and am a registered independant. I want the best for my family and tell you what is happening now will hurt us all. Bend that into whatever political side that makes you happy.

jj

 

[usmc0311]

I will add this... Obama and Congress are definitely making this situation much worse and have no intention of changing this deficit problem. The only way they will change their tune is to have the electorate make them. Mid-term elections are on their way, and we need to get people in their that are willing to say no to all this deficit spending.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that there are no politicians willing to do this (they may say no to the health care thing, but will say yes to many other things), and/or the American people as a whole won't be willing to stomach the sacrifices necessary to get things under control again. Too many are content to watch their reality TV and get their cheap crap from Wal-Mart to care...

 

[Gunner3456]

Ha! That's a good one! Thanks for making me laugh!

You do realize that Bush is the one that signed off on the $700B Wall Street Bailout, right? And in Bush's last year in office he raised the national debt over 1 trillion dollars! Try thinking in less partisan terms... I agree that this is a major problem, but it's not a Republican or Democrat problem. Rather, BOTH of the parties are the problem. They both spend like crazy and it's gonna screw us in the end.

I gotta say though, and I see it a lot on this board, too many are consumed with labeling things as progressive/liberal or conservative. Most conservatives in government work toward the same end goals as liberals, they just don't push it as quickly or blatantly...

Just my 2 cents...

I agree with you completely.

Partisan politics and finger pointing aside, and not debating "who" is doing it or "why" they are doing it, the chart is still there, the momentum is still there, and the impending crash is still there.

It doesn't really matter who's to blame until you make your personal choice at the voting booth and that's your personal right. What matters is that what's happening is unsustainable and it will go belly up.

The issue is that massive interest payment increases and massive social security and medicare payment increases are right around the corner and they will explode that chart which already has far more expenses than we can pay.

Without pointing fingers, the question is, do we see it and are we preparing for it? The point is that it's real that interest rates and medicare/medicaid payments are about to skyrocket no matter who's to blame. The point is that this isn't in the distant future; it's right upon us. The point is that the chart already has more than a $1 trillion dollar deficit and it's about to explode. The point is that we need to see it and prepare for it.

$.02

 

[usmc0311]

But aside from stocking up on dry goods, how can you prepare for devaluation of the dollar and massive inflation?

 

[EZLivin]

We have become a two-headed one party political system.

The foundation for this catastrophe was being set during the Clinton administration (but almost nobody complained because everyone was feeling "rich"), was continued and expanded during the Bush administration, and has been brought to unimagined extremes under the Obama administration. The unelected people who have orchestrated the nightmare (Greenspan, Rubin, Summers, etc.) have been involved in one way or another with each administration (they never go away). The people who have allowed this to happen are our elected officials who we keep sending back to DC year after year after year.

Ron Paul understood the eventual outcome, and year after year tried to get the message out, but was continually marginalized by the power-brokers. God bless him for trying.

 

[matt_w]

But aside from stocking up on dry goods, how can you prepare for devaluation of the dollar and massive inflation?

This has been posted on here before, but this guy has been through a (potentially) similar situation.

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008/10/thoughts-on-urban-survival-2005.html

 

[EZLivin]

But aside from stocking up on dry goods, how can you prepare for devaluation of the dollar and massive inflation?

This article is well worth a read. The folks over at Sprott are some of the sharpest minds out there. It is written from a Canadian perspective, but all the info is applicable to Americans.

<broken link removed>

 

[EZLivin]

This has been posted on here before, but this guy has been through a (potentially) similar situation.

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008/10/thoughts-on-urban-survival-2005.html

Ferfal's book is worth reading too.

 

[Randini]

Sure is a lot of talk about this problem now days I found this to be a good read,

<broken link removed>

"The surest way to take control of any country is by destroying the value of its national currency. By creating trillions of dollars in new money, the government is working to debase our dollar and slowly monetize the national debt through inflation. Once this happens, investors in government bonds will be wiped out. As our money becomes worthless, everyone will be crying for a bailout. And now the deck appears to be so heavily stacked against the dollar that within ten years you may no longer be able to recognize America from Europe."

 

[unionguy]

My own point of view is all this debt is the progressives strategy to destroy our constitution and take power over us. Look at how Oregon voters sold their sole for job protection. When the economy goes the people will give up all their freedoms out of fear.

They are allready setting up the banks for a global currency.

jj

Can we at least not rewrite history here guys? Both Democrats and Republicans since Reagan have done massive deficit spending...that's what's got us into this mess. Look up the numbers.

We should go back to a Citizen's Army and save dramatically on defense...defend our nation, instead of Exxon's oil interests in the Middle East. Just one way to save a lot of money that isn't ever talked about.

And how about a plan to bring back manufacturing jobs to America? You oughta ask yourself why it barely gets talked about by Republicans or Democrats.

Let's move beyond this "conservative" and "liberal" non-sense and talk to each other again. "Free Trade" is a perfect example. It started out as a 'conservative' idea...but now, most Demorats endorse it as well. And, we've been doing for over 30 years...how's it working out for you?

 

[bugeye]

I didn't like Bush and Obama is worse however both parties are full of progressives and that's why our economy has tanked. It is a planned event. If you study the history of progressives you will realize why America is suffering and who these people are. I have no political side and am a registered independant. I want the best for my family and tell you what is happening now will hurt us all. Bend that into whatever political side that makes you happy.

jj

"I have no prolitical side"?

Looney Toons!

 

[Trlsmn]

Ha! That's a good one! Thanks for making me laugh!

You do realize that Bush is the one that signed off on the $700B Wall Street Bailout, right? And in Bush's last year in office he raised the national debt over 1 trillion dollars! Try thinking in less partisan terms... I agree that this is a major problem, but it's not a Republican or Democrat problem. Rather, BOTH of the parties are the problem. They both spend like crazy and it's gonna screw us in the end.

I gotta say though, and I see it a lot on this board, too many are consumed with labeling things as progressive/liberal or conservative. Most conservatives in government work toward the same end goals as liberals, they just don't push it as quickly or blatantly...

Just my 2 cents...

You do realize that Bush is no longer the President and the responsibility is now Obama's? Blame and excuses are the tools of losers and want to Be's! Leaders lead, losers make excuses and assign blame.

 

[bugeye]

Can we at least not rewrite history here guys? Both Democrats and Republicans since Reagan have done massive deficit spending...that's what's got us into this mess. Look up the numbers.

We should go back to a Citizen's Army and save dramatically on defense...defend our nation, instead of Exxon's oil interests in the Middle East. Just one way to save a lot of money that isn't ever talked about.

And how about a plan to bring back manufacturing jobs to America? You oughta ask yourself why it barely gets talked about by Republicans or Democrats.

Let's move beyond this "conservative" and "liberal" non-sense and talk to each other again. "Free Trade" is a perfect example. It started out as a 'conservative' idea...but now, most Demorats endorse it as well. And, we've been doing for over 30 years...how's it working out for you?

+1,

Can I make an addition to the list of evil dragons about to devour the universe? At least add a chapter called, 1000 trillion dollars of derivatives trading, as that dragon outmasses the GDP of the world by about 18 times and makes our national debt look like a small purchase at the dollar store. Worrying about the defict is like being concerned with the sun going out while the ground is buckling under your feet. Meanwhile our markets have become an unlimited credit cassino, where all the players are off the wagon, recovering addicts without a penney to back their bets. As amatter of fact the last time one of the big ones went bust was 18 months ago and guess who picked up the tab?

I understand you get the defict, but look up 'credit default swaps (CDS)' for a real ride into the black hole of doom!

 

[usmc0311]

You do realize that Bush is no longer the President and the responsibility is now Obama's? Blame and excuses are the tools of losers and want to Be's! Leaders lead, losers make excuses and assign blame.

You do realize that I wasn't making excuses for anyone, right? I mean read the post. I was pointing out that it wasn't just Obama that was spending like crazy, and pointing out that Republicans are just as bad. I also was pretty explicit that Obama is making his own mistakes.

Just because he is no longer President, doesn't mean it's not valid to point out negative impacts he had on the economy. To deny that is to put your head in the sand. But hey, thanks for putting words in my mouth...

 

[usmc0311]

This has been posted on here before, but this guy has been through a (potentially) similar situation.

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008/10/thoughts-on-urban-survival-2005.html

Great link!

 

[Just Jim]

I agree with you completely.

Partisan politics and finger pointing aside, and not debating "who" is doing it or "why" they are doing it, the chart is still there, the momentum is still there, and the impending crash is still there.

It doesn't really matter who's to blame until you make your personal choice at the voting booth and that's your personal right. What matters is that what's happening is unsustainable and it will go belly up.

The issue is that massive interest payment increases and massive social security and medicare payment increases are right around the corner and they will explode that chart which already has far more expenses than we can pay.

Without pointing fingers, the question is, do we see it and are we preparing for it? The point is that it's real that interest rates and medicare/medicaid payments are about to skyrocket no matter who's to blame. The point is that this isn't in the distant future; it's right upon us. The point is that the chart already has more than a $1 trillion dollar deficit and it's about to explode. The point is that we need to see it and prepare for it.

$.02

Normally I pretty much agree with you gunner but to me you are wrong about pointing fingers. To put simple my thinking if you have a medical problem and you just treat the symptoms and not the cause the problem won't go away.

Progressives are in both parties and have done this to our country. If they are not thrown out they will continue. We have a choice now of elective surgery to remove this progressive cancer or later radical surgery where the patient may die. You must know where the cancer came from to cure it. The progressives in both parties are killing America with debt.

How are you going to fix anything without knowing who did it and rooting them out from doing worse?

jj