Is this rust or copper fouling in my barrel?

[N Monty]

Long story short- I went shooting in the rain a while ago, and thought I cleaned all my rifles. Realized recently that this one got missed, and immediately set to cleaning it.

The barrel is looking kind of gross, and patches keep coming out filthy, but it seems like it's getting better. I'm mostly concerned with these brown streaks in the barrel, mainly on the lands. Is this rust, or just copper fouling?

The barrel is CHF, chrome lined, and relatively new. I'd be bummed if my carelessness caused it to get rusty so soon.








Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

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[Silver Hand]

Run a clean white patch two or three drops of CLP or Hoppe's down the bore, If it is brown it is rust if it is green it is copper. Nothing looks hurt!

 

[Capn Jack]

Show it to a Marine DI and he'll let you know...

 

[N Monty]

Run a clean white patch two or three drops of CLP or Hoppe's down the bore, If it is brown it is rust if it is green it is copper. Nothing looks hurt!

Just a few grey streaks when I use a little CLP.

Some of my earlier patches had that blue-green color to them using Gunslick Bore Cleaner, but not many. Every time I run the bronze brush back and forth, then patch, the patches are really black and gross.

Jag until the patches are mostly clean.

Bronze brush again, patches are gross.

Jag until patches are mostly clean.

Repeat ad nauseum. That TulAmmo really is filthy stuff. The BCG was a mess too.

 

[eklarsen]

clearly rust, not to bad though, clean it out now and live to shoot again

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

It looks a bit like copper to me - but the filth was probably that mixed with surface rust, i would keep cleaning until it hurts, or the patches come out clean - then i'd run plenty of very wet patches through it with whatever you use as lube.

I had a Garand Barrel that had a lot coming out of it, but it cleaned eventually.

 

[Silver Hand]

You can do more damage with a bore brush trying to scrape all the lands off the grooves, Light oil and go shoot it - Stop cleaning so hard! Guilding metal will lap the bore after 300 rounds and fill in some of the drag, never leave the bore with anything but a few drops of oil in it for storage.

 

[N Monty]

It looks a bit like copper to me - but the filth was probably that mixed with surface rust, i would keep cleaning until it hurts, or the patches come out clean - then i'd run plenty of very wet patches through it with whatever you use as lube. I had a Garand Barrel that had a lot coming out of it, but it cleaned eventually.

You can do more damage with a bore brush trying to scrape all the lands off the grooves, Light oil and go shoot it - Stop cleaning so hard! Guilding metal will lap the bore after 300 rounds and fill in some of the drag, never leave the bore with anything but a few drops of oil in it for storage.

Two conflicting opinions, here. MadMaXX, would you suggest just running the bronze brush through some more? Or would this be one of those rare occasions where a stainless brush would be better? I just want to get the rust out before it can do any real damage. The barrel was painfully expensive when I bought it and I'd rather keep it rust-free.

Silver Hand, usually I don't overclean my barrels or worry about getting every last bit of copper out of them. I'm mainly just concerned that I've got rust living in this barrel and I'd rather not have that. If it is light rust, are you suggesting that shooting it some more would help lap the stuff out of the bore?

Thanks y'all.

 

[Member 5605]

Coppah... rust would be in the grooves as well as the lands (equally). The majority is on the lands so with the disproportional ratio... it's coppah.

If that barrel is chrome lined, it can't be rust so soon???

 

[BillM]

Just a few grey streaks when I use a little CLP.

Some of my earlier patches had that blue-green color to them using Gunslick Bore Cleaner, but not many. Every time I run the bronze brush back and forth, then patch, the patches are really black and gross.

Jag until the patches are mostly clean.

Bronze brush again, patches are gross.

Jag until patches are mostly clean.

Repeat ad nauseum. That TulAmmo really is filthy stuff. The BCG was a mess too.

Tula? Isn't Tula steel jacketed? Easy enough to check with a magnet.
It's a chrome bore, so if it is rust it should not be the bore
that is rusting. Could it be rust from the steel jacketed ammo?

 

[11Charlie]

My guess is copper! Agree with Dyjital's assessment. If it were rust it would be everywhere and not just on the lands.

 

[N Monty]

Coppah... rust would be in the grooves as well as the lands (equally). The majority is on the lands so with the disproportional ratio... it's coppah.
If that barrel is chrome lined, it can't be rust so soon???

That's a great point. There's a little in the grooves but most of the coloring is on the lands. The barrel is an FN, and chrome lined, so I trust it's pretty solid. I don't know if it's solid enough to beat the neglect of shooting Tula in the rain and putting it away damp.

Tula? Isn't Tula steel jacketed? Easy enough to check with a magnet. It's a chrome bore, so if it is rust it should not be the bore that is rusting. Could it be rust from the steel jacketed ammo?

Tula is "bimetal" jacketed. Lead, with steel jacket and a copper wash. I guess it's possible that the bore deposits were a little copper and a little bit steel, and those steel jacket deposits are rusting. It's a neat consideration but I'm not sure if that's actually possible or not.

My guess is copper! Agree with Dyjital's assessment. If it were rust it would be everywhere and not just on the lands.

Fair point. I guess I was just stressing out because I know I did a bad job of maintenance. And I found a little bit of rust on the breech face. Chamber brush helped scrub it away though.

 

[Unka-Boo]

Looks like cooper to me also....any cleaner with a little amonia in it will clean it out....theres the foaming cleaner also...

 

[BillM]

"Tula is "bimetal" jacketed. Lead, with steel jacket and a copper wash. I guess it's possible that the bore deposits were a little copper and a little bit steel, and those steel jacket deposits are rusting. It's a neat consideration but I'm not sure if that's actually possible or not."

Well---the lands would be the part of the barrel that would have the best chance of cutting
through the copper wash and contacting the soft steel jacket. It would be interesting to
recover a fired bullet and see which parts retained the copper.

 

[eklarsen]

You guys think you get copper fouling on the crown? come on, it is clearly rust. Use a nylon brush and use copper solvent if you need to, over cleaning is a myth.

 

[N Monty]

Well, I just placed a big ol' order, since I used up all my patches at home anyway.

I have some Sweets 7.62 on the way. If it is just copper, my understanding is that the Sweets will clean it right out.

If the Sweets doesn't work, it's rust, and I have a bunch more brushes and some JB bore paste I'll use to try to clean that crap up with.

Scrub, scrub, scrub, scrub
my whole life is scrubbing barrels

 

[Silver Hand]

Two conflicting opinions, here. MadMaXX, would you suggest just running the bronze brush through some more? Or would this be one of those rare occasions where a stainless brush would be better? I just want to get the rust out before it can do any real damage. The barrel was painfully expensive when I bought it and I'd rather keep it rust-free.

Silver Hand, usually I don't overclean my barrels or worry about getting every last bit of copper out of them. I'm mainly just concerned that I've got rust living in this barrel and I'd rather not have that. If it is light rust, are you suggesting that shooting it some more would help lap the stuff out of the bore?

Thanks y'all.

I think you are doing damage to the bore working the brass brushes to hard and to long, Those brushes are made of some pretty hard stuff and in some cases people ruin a good barrel going nuts cleaning it. The metal you remove will look somewhat black. Just put some rounds down range and look for the gilding metal to be doing to be it's job when you are done.

Never use a SS brush on any barrel. Slight but permanent damage will be present when you are done, and it gets worse every time you use it.
Read on rifle barrel cleaning. Or just keep doing what you are doing.

 

[N Monty]

I think you are doing damage to the bore working the brass brushes to hard and too long, Those brushes are made of some pretty hard stuff and in some cases people ruin a good barrel going nuts cleaning it. The metal you remove will look somewhat black. Just put some rounds down range and look for the gilding metal to be doing to be it's job when you are done.

Never use a SS brush on any barrel. Slight but permanent damage will be present when you are done, and it gets worse every time you use it.
Read on rifle barrel cleaning. Or just keep doing what you are doing.

Thanks for the advice. I definitely won't use a stainless brush. I ordered some Sweets and some JB bore paste, along with some softer nylon brushes.

Agreed that an over-cleaned barrel is trouble too, so at some point I'll take Kenny Rogers' advice and "know when to soak them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, and know when to scrub."

 

[Silver Hand]

Precision Shooting Magazine,
Editorial, December,'97, referencing an article in
American
Single Shot Rifle Association News by Dr. Geoffrey
Kolbe. "... There is a warning on the label
of Shooter's Choice MC#7 bore cleaner that it shoul
d not be mixed with other bore cleaners...
Mixing solvents that contain 111 Tricloroethane wit
h Shooter's Choice is also bad news!... Most
American barrel makers hesitate to recommend Sweets
as a regular bore cleaner because
experience seems to show that barrels last longer w
ith other petro-chemical based bore cleaners
like Hoppes No. 9 or Shooter's Choice. Ammonia is p
resent in bore cleaners like Hoppes No. 9
in the form of ammonia oleate..."

Read about what you are doing,

 

[JuglansRegia]

Probably copper, and a side note, even if your barrel is sparkling clean and never been fired through, if you run a bronze brush through it with a copper solvent it will still make dirty patches, the reason being is that bronze is a copper/tin alloy. Use a nylon or stainless brush.