Is anyone here NOT in love with the 5.56 x 45 or the AR-15?

[Captain O]

Frankly, I shoot what I like, not what "the crowd" desires. I'll wind up pouring well over $1000.00 into an M1 Carbine.

My weapon is apathy. I don't give a damn what anyone thinks or wants.

 

[ditchtiger]

I've never shot an AR that didn't feel like holding on to a tuning fork after it was fired. The same with Glocks and the "P" series of Ruger pistols.

BOING
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...mCT680&usg=AFQjCNGq2UVNMyG-f-qFuiZXGQLKLiXTPw

 

[Brutus57]

With all due respect, new technology is advancing thousands of times faster now then what we had 110 years ago. The odds of anything lasting that long ever again is almost zero.

By your logic, the 7.62x39 has killed more people and has been in more wars/battles then the 30-06 so that would make that the better round?

I'll keep my money on the .308 for now and I guess we will see what the next big deal is when it comes out.

In the end it's just my opinion and I'm not really all that passionate about the subject as I can't afford 95% of the guns or caliber's I want that are out there

Executing civilians and prisoners are a large amount of the casualties inflicted by the 7.62x39 since 1947. As I said before, even the Russians dropped the round in favor of something different. Do you have any idea how many Chinese were killed by the .06 in Korea? How about with the .30-06 round in Browning machine guns from WWI through WWII, Korea and to a limited extent in Vietnam? Be careful before you throw out stuff like "thousands of times faster." How so?, not a lot of pulse rifles, phasers, ray guns at last year's Shot Show.....People still use powder in a generally brass cartridge to toss a bullet out a rifle barreled...have chamber pressures and velocities increased in the past 110 years? Yes, by thousands of time faster...no, not even close.

Nothing magic about a 7.62x39 with an effective range of a couple of hundred yards vs. the accuracy of an M1917 Browning with an effective range of thousands of yards. 7.62x39 fun to shoot, heck ya. As versatile as the .30-06 no.

Brutus Out

 

[dwaineshort]

I understand that the 5.56 x 45 is the current "sweetheart" of the self-loading rifle crowd I also understand how well it shoots accurately at 250 yards and all. As a party of one, I don't like the "plastic" aspect of the AR15/M4 or whatever you want to call it. IMHO, it has very little in the way of "spirit". It fires a 55 grain pointed FMJ or PHP at extremely high velocities. Big deal. It is fine for varmints. and it works fairly well for deer. It seems that anyone with a CNC machine can crank out an M4/AR-15 in a matter of hours. *yawn*. We have heard it all before.

I am a Vietnam era Navy veteran, and the son of a BM1 (PNA to Chief 13 times). He was Underwater Demolition Team (pre-SEALS)/Navy Rifle Team. Pearl Harbor Survivor, (7 1/2 ships sank from beneath him during WW2) and was also a veteran of the Korean Conflict. (I learned at my daddy's knee). War stories of the M4 M16 are for another thread. There are enough of them to circumnavigate the globe.

I prefer a .30 Caliber or larger diameter slug, regardless of platform. At ranges up to 150 yards, the .30 Carbine gives up little to the 5.56, and If I want to shoot any further, I'll use either my .30 Soviet (7.62 x 39). after 200 yards, I will use my bolt-action Spanish Mauser in .308 Winchester.

This is not the thread to tell me how well you AR-15/M4 kills deer blah, blah, blah. We've heard all about it for 51 years (1965).

Is anyone else unimpressed/bored stiff with the AR15/M4?

I think your arguments whould make sense if for not the fact that you can build one from many different materials , and use many different calibers. It's pretty much the most customizable rifle on the market.

 

[dwaineshort]

I've never shot an AR that didn't feel like holding on to a tuning fork after it was fired. The same with Glocks and the "P" series of Ruger pistols.

BOING
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjv_pWAvoDMAhXIlYMKHQv5CrUQtwIIHTAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACGpmCT680&usg=AFQjCNGq2UVNMyG-f-qFuiZXGQLKLiXTPw

My guess is you haven't shot one with a jp silent spring.

 

[Captain O]

I like tech.

Grew up with it and love innovations.

Having said that - the equipment built today is not as high of quality as equipment built 60+ years ago. Whether it's a skill saw or a rifle - the current stuff is meant to break on you.

As far as an AR vs an AK, there are like what? 6-8 parts total in an AK and a couple dozen in an AR. Which is more likely to break under duress?

That's why my go to is a bolt action rifle. There's a bolt, a gun and a mag. Less to break, less to fix.

Innovations are great! Planned obsolescence is NOT! I haven't a great deal of use for something whose design will prematurely expire or break rather quickly.

My next purchase will be that expensive M1 Carbine that will last longer than I will. (You can bury me with it, if you like). I have no living family, and frankly, no one is going to care. All my guns will turn to junk. Big deal. I want something to last for the nest 20-25 years. After that, it doesn't matter.

Such is life.

 

[Joe13]

Executing civilians and prisoners are a large amount of the casualties inflicted by the 7.62x39 since 1947. As I said before, even the Russians dropped the round in favor of something different. Do you have any idea how many Chinese were killed by the .06 in Korea? How about with the .30-06 round in Browning machine guns from WWI through WWII, Korea and to a limited extent in Vietnam? Be careful before you throw out stuff like "thousands of times faster." How so?, not a lot of pulse rifles, phasers, ray guns at last year's Shot Show.....People still use powder in a generally brass cartridge to toss a bullet out a rifle barreled...have chamber pressures and velocities increased in the past 110 years? Yes, by thousands of time faster...no, not even close.

Nothing magic about a 7.62x39 with an effective range of a couple of hundred yards vs. the accuracy of an M1917 Browning with an effective range of thousands of yards. 7.62x39 fun to shoot, heck ya. As versatile as the .30-06 no.

Brutus Out

I wasn't referring to bullet or gun technology but I'm sitting on a couch using a machine that is thousands of times faster then my computer in the early '80's.

However, bullet tech has gotten a hell of a lot better from 110 years ago.

Here is the actual quote where it refers to technology advancing at such a pace as too most likely never have a cartridge again like the 30-06 last 110 years.

How many new rounds have been developed in the last 20 years even.

With all due respect, new technology is advancing thousands of times faster now then what we had 110 years ago. The odds of anything lasting that long ever again is almost zero.

All I said was that the x39 had been in more battles and wars and killed more people, civilians and innocents should matter as that's to go without saying in wars.

I hope the .308 isn't ever in a world war so it can compete with the -06...

7.62 NATO is still a military cartridge in use today (what We went to after the -06 became obsolete when the .50 BMG was introduced in what 1919? - I'm not a huge history buff).

At the end of the day, when you go to the stores, hardly anyone buys 30-06 compared to .308 for any kind of sporting activity.

Is the .308 as good as the -06, hell no. But we have magnum rounds now that still make the -06 obsolete. From everything I've read, I've never fired both to compare personally.

Don't get me wrong, I still want one but the only ones I could readily afford are single shot hunting rifles that people sell with good glass for $250 all year round.


Not sure what nerve I hit with you but you lumped a lot of my reply's together and out of context so it's difficult for me to know if I explained myself any better here or not.

I'm sure you'll let me know

 

[Joe13]

Innovations are great! Planned obsolescence is NOT! I haven't a great deal of use for something whose design will prematurely expire or break rather quickly.

My next purchase will be that expensive M1 Carbine that will last longer than I will. (You can bury me with it, if you like). I have no living family, and frankly, no one is going to care. All my guns will turn to junk. Big deal. I want something to last for the nest 20-25 years. After that, it doesn't matter.

Such is life.

I have more old guns then new because of that. Now people are getting wise and all the old stuff has sky rocketed in value.

That's sad man. You can leave your guns to me if you want, I'll shoot em

 

[Captain O]

The "magnum" rounds that allegedly force the .30-'06 into obsolescence wear out rifles (yes, the new "whiz-bang" rifles) far more quickly. The newer cartridges:

a) cost more to produce,

b) aren't any more effective at range (the game generally won't know the difference)

c) recovery time between shots (when needed) is longer, and

d) are more abusive to shoot.

I'm not into showing off how much recoil I can tolerate.

What's the point?

 

[Captain O]

I have more old guns then new because of that. Now people are getting wise and all the old stuff has sky rocketed in value.

That's sad man. You can leave your guns to me if you want, I'll shoot em

My six children (four dead and two living) have had no connection to me at all. Nothing sad about it. A man is born, he lives and he dies. My entire family is gone and I have no one left.

I came into this world alone and I'll die alone this is how God arranged it. It is normal.

Why is it sad?

 

[Captain O]

The .30-'06 was superseded by the .308 Winchester in 1954. (The year of my birth is how I remember). Though the cartridge is 61 years into military "retirement" it is still alive and well in the civilian market. Why? because it is at the general "upper limits" of recoil tolerance for the average shooter.

I like it.

 

[jbett98]

You know, you could have started this thread by stating that you really like the 30-'06 cartridge and you would have made a lot more friends right off the bat.

 

[Captain O]

It wouldn't have stimulated anywhere near the conversation it has, would it? I'm still not a fan of the 5.56 x 45 cartridge. As a "sporting cartridge" it has it's limitations... Severe limitations.

 

[orygun]

You know, you could have started this thread by stating that you really like the 30-'06 cartridge and you would have made a lot more friends right off the bat.

That's exactly the point I was trying to get across to the members that called the OP out... I guess I could see what I meant better than I could express.

And I'd like to add that when you see something that you don't agree with, you are not required to respond.

Fyi, while neither is my preference, I'd pick the 223 over the 30 M! Carbine.

 

[Captain O]

In the immortal words of the late Strother Martin in the film "Cool Hand Luke":

"What we've got here is... a failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach".

Orygun is right. (sic) "When you see something that you don't agree with, you are not required to respond".

Think about it.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

My guess is you haven't shot one with a jp silent spring.

^^^ This exactly^^^
That JP captured buffer spring is the bees' knees! It is absolutely silent and works perfectly, worth every dime I paid for it, several years ago.

 

[Joe13]

My six children (four dead and two living) have had no connection to me at all. Nothing sad about it. A man is born, he lives and he dies. My entire family is gone and I have no one left.

I came into this world alone and I'll die alone this is how God arranged it. It is normal.

Why is it sad?

Your first post said: " I have no living family, and frankly, no one is going to care."

Which is much different then being estranged from them - which I also happen to be from 95% of my family.

My wife and daughter give me reason to keep on keepin on; I have no idea how I'd get by happily without them.

I also have a handful of lifelong friends that I connect with occasionally.


I won't have a street or bridge named after me, probably, so the only thing I'll leave affected when I depart this life (in another 80 years or so). I'd like for someone to care when I die I suppose.

To each their own though.



Back to topic, sort of:




When more guns are chanbered in 30-06, then I'll concede it's not a round on the way out.

Yes, it'll probably be around for another century or at least 50-60 years because of mil surp ammo and the cheapness at which it can be had.

When those stores run out then I'd expect to see even fewer hunting rifles made in that cartridge.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Maybe it depends on your location.
I see about the same amount of ammo for .30.06 and .308 on store shelves where I live.
I think rifle production might favor the .308 , just 'cause of the type of rifles that are popular now.
But the .30-06 and rifles for it , will be with us for a long time.
They are just too plentiful and useful to die out.
'Course the same thing might have been said about .30.40 Krag ...
And now back to why the AR and 5.56 sucks or why not ... LOL
Andy

 

[Boboclown]

And now back to why the AR and 5.56 sucks or why not ... LOL

"It sucks cause it isn't a .30 cal." "It sucks cause its different from what I like." "It sucks cause I don't like it." I can come up with a number of reasons here.

 

[oremike]

Following the tangent, sort of. There are 4 calibers that I've always had at least one of in the safe since I got out of the service in 1979, they are .22 long rifle, 12 ga, 45, and 30.06. Other calibers come and go and all are great fun in their own right. After a while though, they lose their appeal and move on or turn into something else while the '06 is still the go to gun. As far as fading away, well I just don't think so, I can still walk into any little podunk sporting goods store and buy a box of 30.06 ammo but may not find any of whatever is the latest and greatest.